Thanks for all the input in my other thread, it's really helped put the campaign together!

So, today I am so hungover I cannot do anything constructive, and so I decided wanking with some shadowrun stuff. The groups troll street samurai has an Enemy quality (rating 10!), so of course I had his past involving him killing an elderly ninja clan leader, turning the entire Manhattan branch of this fine-tuned cliché killing machine against him!

The Incidence rating is high, so I want him to be ambushed by a ninja out for blood during the next play session. Having nothing better to do, I fleshed out a Genin unarmed adept that will make an attempt on his life. The soldier is created with 320 build points, and (having nothing better to do) I made him from the bottom-up, so he also has lifestyle and general gear. Thus, he is not optimized in his chosen field, but rather from a set of criteria I wanted:

- He should have different elemental attacks and showy martial arts, so I can create an exciting scene.

- He should pose a challenge, but not kill the character (if it happens I suppose he can spend permanent edge, but I primarily want to scare him)

- His abilities should be consistent with ninjahood, so him and his clan appear like credible and dangerous adversaries

Keep that in mind when you give feedback, if I wanted to just maximize his killing power I could have made him with more points or min-maxed accessible combinations.

Takei Ishii, Ninja Adept



I have a problem already, I fear. His Wired Reflexes are a stupid augmentation for an adept to have, even if it's alphaware, as he will never improve his adept powers beyond a certain point, and a magically active clan of elder ninja will be well aware of that, discouraging their genin from going on the wire.

However, at 320 BP I couldn't afford either high enough attributes to make him hold his own in combat against a troll sam or a bioware IP boost (80K per rating ). The Samurai has W. Reflexes 2, so unless I up the ante I don't think he will be much of a threat.

I'm considering either handwaving the bioware into being (a kobun could have sponsored it for a promising pupil or he could have come into wealth somehow), or abusing the hell out of his stealth capabilities to stick the troll with several narcoject arrows instead of just one as is my plan currently (shadow, isolate, one arrow, then disappear and suprise attack in melee).

Oh, and a question, since it involves his martial arts. Does anyone know how exactly a Gymnastic Dodge is performed? The rules state: "Characters skilled in Gymnastics can
spend their action flipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of danger,
and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against either ranged
or melee attacks."

So if I declare full defense and perform a gymnastic dodge, what exactly happens? Does the character get Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics to roll? Or Reaction + Gymnastics?

Instead of using Wires, you can opt to use combat drugs. IIRC, Kamikaze (from SR4A) and K-10 (from Arsenal) are the ones that give additional IPs.
Gymnastics dodge is Reaction + Gymnastics for ranged attacks, and something like Reaction + weapons skill/unarmed + Gymnastics for melee (assuming block/parry, which is better than a Gymnastics full dodge anyways). Basically, you should get rid of Dodge entirely, and just use Gymnastics, since it's strictly better than Dodge.
A few other suggestions: the standard notation for specializations is Skill Rating (Specialization +2), so something like Thrown Weapons 2 (Shurken +2). Also note that the Martial Arts style chosen was Ninjutsu, just so it's clear. Drop Penetrating Strike and pick up Critical Strike, because +DV is better than -AP, assuming a 1-to-1 ratio.
EDIT: And put the stat block in a spoiler tag, so people can scroll past it if they've already read it.

Cram and Jazz are the other drugs that give extra initiative passes from the core books. Both also boost reaction by +1. Very viable alternative and they fit with the ninja attitude better (they are not opposed to chemical warfare and other tricks).

I would say if you want to make him realistic, you need to give him logic 2. Stupid assassins don't last very long.

You could also have him lead off with a chemical grenade attack (ninja smoke bomb), before engaging in melee. Something that causes disorientation and nausea. -2 to dice pools for disorientation and double wound penalties will bring the street sam closer into range of your ninja.

Also, small thing, you might consider lowering the loyalty on his group contact. Most ninja clans are not depicted as being accepting of members that have failed an assignment. That strikes me as a low loyalty trait.

I'll resonate the advice to up the melee damage - strength 4 is pretty weak against a troll. Pick whether the attack of choice is to be unarmed or armed and focus on that - if unarmed then Critical Strike is nice and cheap. If armed then change the weapon, if only because a ninja really shouldn't be using a noisy fibro-blade.

Speaking of surprise, the thing about ninja is that their MO is stealth. The IP solution should (in the ninja's mind) be that he gets surprise on the target and incapacitates them in one blow. Surprise will certainly help up your DV (no defence roll) as will a called shot. I think therefore you should build a guy where the lack of IPs is what will help the PC(s) survive.

Re: Gymnastics, it is only used for full defence. The options are as follows -

Dodging ranged attacks: Reaction
Full dodging ranged attacks: Reaction + Dodge
Gymnastics dodging ranged attacks: Reaction + Gymnastics

Parrying melee attacks: Reaction + Melee combat skill
Full partying melee attacks: Reaction + (2 x Melee combat skill)

Blocking melee attacks: Reaction + Unarmed combat skill
Full blocking melee attacks: Not allowed

Dodging melee attacks: Reaction + Dodge
Full dodging melee attacks: Reaction + (2 x Dodge)
Gymnastics dodging melee attacks: Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics

NB - both forms of gymnastics dodging cost an action as per the full defence rules

I assume you're thinking of the cliched black-pajama-wearing supernatural ninja rather than the practical "kill someone from a way they never saw coming" sort of medieval Japanese assassin ninja.

That's cool. I like pajama ninja antics.

As for him having both wires and being an Adept, perhaps he was a Latent Awakening who only discovered his potential after he got wired? This would make him something of a misfit and an acceptable loss if he fails - and if he succeeds, or succeeds well enough that the troll burns edge to survive what are obviously fatal wounds - it just says that despite his unfortunate circumstances, he may yet overcome his limitations and become a true master (through Initiation, natch.)

Also, might I suggest that, like a smart Ninja, he doesn't have to do this alone. He could recruit wannabes or neophytes, pay gangers to stage an attack on the troll to distract him from the ninja's attack, or something like that?

Okay, there is a good grounding. But, well, I understand you don't necessarily want him min-maxed, but you still want him to pose a credible threat. That's cool, but keep in mind against a troll sammy, you will want to do at least, IMO, a little crunching.

If I was to make this guy...hrm. Let's see how i'd run it. Using Chummer, I'll whip up this guy as a variant. 320 BP, no Availability limits due to the clan's high Connection rating. (The only reason why I'm whipping up the stats and skills from scratch with the program is so I can get a better reading on stuff.)




Okay. Basically rather than take stealth group, I took stuff separate. Going Pajama Ninja, I upped Infiltration and specialized in Urban. Then I maxed out Martial Arts. This way, he can give a pretty nasty hit. His augmented 5 strength and 4 levels of Critical Strike will make the troll pretty hairy. I did add a couple levels of Penetrating Strike in as well. Hardliner gloves tack on an extra damage boost.

As for 'Ware, I went this route. I took the Suprathyroid for a quick Physical stat boost. Opting for the Ninja Drug Method of upping IPs, I can see that. Synthacardium, a decent Reaction and his Athletics Group will be solid for that aspect. Didn't add all the gear you have(you have a good gear setup for him).

He's not completely min maxed, but this is just an example of what I'd do if someone said ''make a pajama ninja out of 320 BP that can pose a credible threat to a 400 BP troll sammie without killing him and not necessarily number crunching to no end.''

Thermal Smoke grenades can work great, chemical stuff, and Narcoject to maybe stagger him, then one painful shot to give him some damage to show that he isn't the baddest guy around and that he should be careful and that there are more of him where he came from. Basically, he's not terrible up close and personal, but it will work out better for him to get a surprise on him first. Surprise attacks are nasty.

If for some reason the troll can take a swing, this fella will defend with a lot of dice. With 2 Athletics group, a 3 Synthacardium and 5 Reaction, that's 10 alone for a full ranged defense(though by the sound he'll be getting the first hit before guns come in.) In melee he'll have quite a few and be able to soak quite a bit(I had hacked some armor together but you seem to have something better there, I just did it for the hell of it.)

Again, I think your setup is pretty good overall, but just needs a few tweaks to be a bit of a heftier threat. If forced into straight up combat, he'll likely have to use some Jazz to get his IPs and Initiative up. I'd actually use that time to drop a Thermal Smoke or Flashbang combo and try to hide again via his suit and high Infiltration for another Narcoject shot, though that drug is pretty hefty along with a flashbang to give the troll some serious Stun damage before giving him the ''Be careful around us'' nasty hit.

We have a ninja adept in our group. Here's a rough copy/paste from the email sent with my build.

Concept was part street urchin with some ninja training. If you are a pure ninja, purge some of the non-relevant skills and use the BP to up the strength and unarmed combat, thrown weapons or blades skill. I made this character largely defensive and a high suprise/dodge pool. If you want to go offensive, decide if you want to focus on unarmed combat, blades, or thrown weapons and alter the powers to suit.

I felt defensive dice pool was more effective as it helps with surprise tests, ambushing targets and combined with judicious use of Edge and martial arts maneouvers, the ability to one shot people relatively nicely (if played smart). This is a personal bias though.

Finally, pick the Invisible Way Quality for 10BP from Way of the Adept and exploit the advantages offered in that PDF. I didn't have that book when I made this character.

So some of the skills aren't straight adept but I think it will become apparent what I was working for in a moment....
-----

--POSITIVE QUALITIES--
ADEPT 5
MARTIAL ARTIST (Ninjitsu -- +2 Infiltration) 10

--NEGATIVE QUALITIES-- (Swap out with 15BP of whatever, this was from the character's bio.
SIMSENSE VERTIGO 10
SCORCHED 5

BP COST OF QUALITIES: 0 (they negate each other nicely)


Attributes:
Body 3: Agility: 5 Reaction: 5 Strength: 3 = 120
Char: 1 Intuition: 4 Logic: 2 Willpower: 2 = 50
Edge: 3 Magic: 5 = 20 + 40= 60
BP COST: 210

Active Skills:
Stealth Skill Group: 4 40
Athletics Skill Group: 3 30
Dodge (Ranged +2): 4 18
Unarmed Combat (Ninjitsu +2): 4 18
Blades (Knives +2): 3 14
Survival (Urban +2): 2 10
Perception (Visual +2): 2 10
Pilot Ground Vehicle (Wheeled +2): 2 10
BP COST: 150

Knowledge Skills: (Total Points: 18) -- These can be swapped for whatever. Again, these are relevant the previous character's bio.
English: Native
Japanese: 4
Safe Houses: 4
Gang Identification: 4

ADEPT POWERS:
Improved Ability (Infiltration): 2 0.5
Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat): 2 1.0
Improved Reflexes: 1 1.5
Improved Ability (Dodge): 2 1.0 (or Penetrating Strike (2) and Killing Hands if you want to be more offensive than defensive with your bare hands).
Combat Sense: 2 1.0

MARTIAL ARTS MANOUVERS:
Disarm, Finishing Move, Iajitsu, Set-Up.

CONTACTS: - (Feel free to chop and change again.)
"O'Sensei" (Connection: 4/ Loyalty: 4) -16 BP
Mysterious Japanese Sensei. You think he's an outcast/disgraced ninja looking to rebuild a ninja clan within Denver by recruiting street orphans. You are his first student and he is most proud of your achievements to date.

"Gobble" (Connection: 3/ Loyalty: 1) - 8BP
Your snitch contact. He actually knows a lot of people on the street. You came up together and kept crossing paths. Like any survivor on the street, his loyalty must be bought and he will not risk himself for you.

Mr Feit (Fate as a street name just seemed kinda dumb to me) (Connection: 2/ Loyalty: 1) - 6BP
Owner of the halfway house. Use Slum Lord stats from Contacts book. Again, knows people and a lot of rumors and sees a lot. Don't expect much out of him though.

BP COST FOR CONTACTS: 32

EQUIPMENT: 8BP (40,000Y)
More than enough for a decent apartment, equipment, fake SINS, commlinks, weapons, etc. Go crazy.

NOTES:
This build:

Infiltration:
Agility 5 + Infilitration Skill (in Stealth group) 4 + 2 dice from Martial Art Quality + 2 dice from Improved Ability = 13 dice. That's before you use your 40,000 to buy stealth suits or anything cool.

Martial Arts:
Agility 5 + Unarmed Combat 4 (+2 if using ninjitsu-related moves) + 2 for the Improved Ability = 13 dice.

Surprise Tests:
Agiliy 5 + Intuition 4 + 2 Combat Sense = 11 dice (unlikely you will be ambushed. Ever.) Likewise, if you decide to Ambush someone? + 6 to that (17 dice... ouch. And they have to beat your Infiltration to locate you if you're hiding well...). Use Edge if you absolutely, positively HAVE to go first.

Full Dodge:
Agility 5 + Dodge 4 + Dodge 4 + Improved Ability Dodge 2 = 15 dice. Say no to being hit. If you do a Gymnastics dodge (cartwheel somersault flips or whatever, assuming space) from your Athletics Skill Group you add another 3 dice (18 dice).

Drawbacks to the Build?
I lowered the Magic attribute from 6 to 5. This means you lose our on Improved Reflexes 2 BUT that bought you a bunch of contacts though, including a sensei who can help train you over time (I figured you'd dig that and would like to re-write your story to accomodate if you wanted). This will work out better overall IMHO. You also have more Gear/Starting Cash, higher Strength and Intuition - which as you can see is useful for Ambushing people (key ninja skill). I got rid of crap like Ambidexterity, SURGEd and anything else that didn't fit the concept and just confused it. Add SURGE back in if you really want to, but if you do, stick to a theme (e.g. Gecko, Chameleon or something that is suitably ninja-ry). Plus as a ninja you wants to BLEND IN. Being a SURGEd character makes it almost impossible as you get Distinctive Style automatically and can never buy it off. Human works much better than any other race for that purpose.

Unfortunately your strength score really sucks, even with my boost of 1. If you sneak in on someone, you might want to use shock gloves or something as the damage value of those overrides your strength score, use Edge or switch to poisoned blades or something. If you chose the Penetrating Strike + Killing Hands adept power route, you can definitely do damage in a fist fight. -2AP to impact armor is nothing to sneeze at (better than Elemental Strike at this stage), even with Strength 3 as you have a lot of dice to roll and will be rolling first if you Ambush someone and making a Called Shot to an unarmored location. If you take those powers instead though you will lose two off all your Surprise Tests, which sucks as a ninja as that helps you ambush people and avoid ambush. Decide what you prefer. It's a tough call either way but whatever you don't get, I'd get with your next Adept power point. You can also use Set-Up and Finishing Move to take someone out unarmed. You do not want to take on multiple targets with this character. Leave that to Chris' character or something.

You can kill people and do some very nasty stuff but you are fragile. Your strength lies in striking while hidden. In a gunfight, Gymnastics Dodge if you're attacked behind cover or somewhere you can hide (Infiltrate) and Ambush the sucker from behind. You also have no ranged weapon skills. I did this deliberate but if you want, substitute Pilot Ground Craft for Pistols (Semi-Automatic +2) or rejig your skills to suit. Buy a gun with a smartlink too if you do that. I didn't figure you as much of a combatant though, apart from what your Sensei taught you so that's why I left it out.

You are not charismatic or liked much either, which means the easiest way for you to build contacts is to prove your usefulness (which is probably why your sensei would keep you around). You hide, you keep to yourself. You probably found the group through using the Matrix on your own so your personality issues aren't as apparent, but you got skills and ambition (maaaaaybe you want to take over O'Sensei's role one day... ? Once you've learned all you can at least... mwuahahaa... . I took away crap skills like Locksmithing which gave nothing at a rating of 1. Better to default and take the penalty hit, or buy a lockpicker.


- J.

This is not quite right - a Gymnastics Dodge is an alternative to Full Dodging, not an addition. See my earlier post for the full rundown.

That is not my reading of the rules.



You could argue then it is Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics I guess. I'd concede defeat on that point. But either way, you add Gymnastics to the DP for ranged or melee when using a Gymnastics dodge. It's there in black and white.

- J.

AFB right now, but isn't that text in the Full Defence section? In that section it lists Gymnastics Dodge as a separate option to Full Dodge. It is not given as an option for standard defence rolls.

Yup. Full Defence. And it says adds to it.

Therefore, Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics. This actually works out better when you figure you can throw in Improved Ability (Dodge) and Improved Ability (Gymnastics). Suspect there might be a cap on the extra dice you can add from a single source though. Pretty sure toturi or Neraph can chime in at any point on this one.

- J.

Right ... so are we actually disagreeing about anything?

bobbaganoosh>> Allright, I've edited the stat block for ease of reading.

I considered drugs, would probably not be considered wrong by ninjas in 2072 where every edge counts. The gymnastics dodge sounds good, but I don't read it as you do. Being the GM perhaps I should just house rule it.

Thorya>> I thought about that, this particular samurai has no protection against tear gas at present However, few things scream "I'm somewhere nearby and want to eat your skull" like a tear gas grenade, giving him time to get to his bike (he's a go-ganger) or call in the artillery.

As for the Ninja clan loyalty rating, I thought it made sense. Failed assignments in this day and age usually end in death, and until he fails he can count on this clan for support. If he fails and lives, I agree his relationship with the clan would radically change, but I'll cross that bridge if I get to it.

Shadowdragon>> I like to think the clans has both. He has been scoped out by a lot of regular people up until now, including stuffer staff clerks, janitors and a delivery boy. All bland, non-descript regular wagers loyal to the ninja clan. Feeling confident they know where he is, they want to kill him in a messy way to exact revenge for their elder.

And yeah, I did want a slightly cliche ninja, but still somewhat true to what 'ninja canon' can be said to exist inside and outside of SR4E

So I think I will up his Magic to 4 in the form of Critical Strike 4, for a respectable 6P -2 punch damage, along with the knockdown or immolation effect of a water or fire strike, plus some drugs - and losing the blade all together, if his punches, shuriken and arrows don't cut it he will beat a retreat (assuming our hero doesn't subdue or kill him).

Sorry, not really. I have seen people saying you can't add Dodge to the test, only Reaction + Gymnastics. I thought that was what you were alluding to and misinterpreted what you said. Mea culpa.

- J.

Depending on how much surveillance your ninja would have done, the troll rushing to his bike can be factored in his planning - sabotage the engine and put some sort of superglue on the seat, and you can beat the crap out of the poor sod during the time it takes him to get out of his trousers. Do teh same trick on the bike's handlebars and he will be truly stuck.

Ninja and playing fair are antinomics. A ninja's absolute best skill would be 'expert - dirty tricks 101'.

Another nasty trick : get a few contact tasers, fit them with a way to be really sticky (gecko grip, a bunch of fishooks, whatever). Sneak on mr Troll, stick them where he can't easily grabd and rip them (maybe even in a pocket), turn them on and get a good laugh.

Playing dirty in SR is the only way to play.

- J.

You start with playing dirty.

Then you resort to things that make dirty look good by comparison.

Sabotaging his bike is actually a good idea. Remote-detonated explosives hidden in the saddlebags or under the seat should do it.


It's also a great way to make him hulk the fuck out. You DO NOT touch a man's bike, especially not the bikes of the manliest of men - trolls! So then he'll have a reason to really engage with the Ninja clan - in head-to-horns combat.

This.

Touching a man's (or woman's) bike is a major insult. Especially if they're in a MC.

Put him against a surged troll boar-man, teach him not to mess with The Foot.

I love you guys.

It seems a bit much to fuck with his most prized possession, but again, that's what enemies do. Thanks a lot for all the input, we play on the 26th, I'll let you know how it went.

Another trick I had placed in a technology-oriented ninja was a set of improved saïs - the idea being to improve the effect
* spring-loaded barbs :on each side of the tip were inch-long sharpened barbs, designed to fold out once it's stuck into the ennemy. Like banderilles in a corrida, it's suposed to be left in the wound. The barbs cause a lot of pain and hinder motion, pulling the weapon out wil inflict extra damage
* syringe : a channel in the blade with a hole at the tip, a reserve of something nasty in the handle with a piston system to push some out with each solid strike
* explosive : a screw-on tip packed with explosive, a contact on the handle to fire it once it's stuck in the target. There's not much explosive, but since in goes off inside the victim's flesh, the results are messy and bypass the armor. It also tends to leave some shrapnel inside the wound.

It was in Cyberpunk 2020, but that's easily adaptable to Shadowrun.

Note about messing whith his pride and joy : you're right in that's what ennemies do. But in the case of sticking him on his bike, the sabotage can be fairly minor and easy to fix : pull out the spark plugs or something similar. Five minutes work to fix, but hard to do when you're stuck on the bike. And extra face loss if he happens to have embarassing underwear and decides he'd rather loose trousers and dignity than ability to move.... 'I didn't know you had an Hello Kitty boxer short'

Don't just glue him to his seat, though. That's petty.

Mix some kind of irritating contact poison in with the glue, say, Pepper Punch. Test out the chemically resistant properties of his trousers (or reward him for having the foresight to wear trousers with the chemical seal property.) It might not be very lethal, but getting a case of the red hot itchy burning sensation where the sun don't shine is bound to bring out the very worst in anyone, especially a troll whose bike was just tampered with.


For better results, use the glue in such a way that it hardens, making it and the Pepper Punch inert... Until re-liquefied by heat, such as, say, the body heat of a troll's undercarriage and the heat of an operating engine. Hopefully it'll kick in while he's going down the freeway. It would take an Escape Artist PhysAd to make the rolls to squirm out of one's trousers whilst affixed to one's motorbike at seventy miles an hour whilst suffering the penalties from the Pepper Punch.

[e]For added fun, install a remote killswitch on his bike that'll make it completely freeze up the engine and tires, forcing an immediate crash test. Trigger this while he's mid-way through whatever extended test you call for in order to squirm out of his glue-affixed trousers whilst on the freeway at seventy miles per hour.


He's a troll, he can take it, right?