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Thanee
Hello!

I have a question about TLE-x (Augmentation p. 132).

When the infected character has a seizure, the "disease" effects kick in.

You make your Body test, reduce Power accordingly, and then get Stun damage, Disorientation, and Paralysis for what is left.

Ok...

And what then?

Normally, a disease lists a Speed and a number of tests that have to be made, while the disease effect accumulates. And afterwards, any further tests made reduce the Power until it is 0.

TLE-x lists nothing of that kind.

So, how long does a seizure last? How often can tests be made to reduce the Power?

Any ideas? Maybe even anything official about it (but opinions are also welcome smile.gif)?


I am currently considering to make it Speed: 1 Combat Turn (1) for each individual seizure, considering that it usually kicks in when you really don't need it and is quite harsh already, when it does.

Bye
Thanee
Aerospider
It's horribly under-specified, but it might be intended that the Speed is the frequency of seizures. I.e. You roll to reduce the power and then you're stuck with the results until your next seizure when it almost certainly gets worse. It is, after all, a degenerative neurological condition that requires brain surgery or gene therapy to undo. This interpretation makes it seriously nasty, though, so you may indeed want to houserule it. However, I think it's important that the degenerative aspect is represented somehow - I.e. the sufferer will continually decline and eventually need treatment.
Thanee
I am mostly wondering about it, because of the 10 pt. negative Quality that "grants" you this condition.

Even at my rather friendly "interpretation/extrapolation" it is probably quite harsh for just those 10 pts. wink.gif

Bye
Thanee
Aerospider
QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 26 2012, 04:33 PM) *
I am mostly wondering about it, because of the 10 pt. negative Quality that "grants" you this condition.

Even at my rather friendly "interpretation/extrapolation" it is probably quite harsh for just those 10 pts. wink.gif

Bye
Thanee

Well if you've picked the quality then you'll have the advantage of knowing about it (well not necessarily I guess) so you can take the drugs for a bonus which, with reasonable Body and Willpower ratings (and Edge) should keep you safe for a while. When it does hit you'd be unlucky to become paralysed so you simply finish the run at -4 to physical actions and a handful of stun. Then it's expensive and lengthy gene therapy or cheap and risky brain surgery. Arguably a DW contract or some house-ruled medical insurance could help with costs. Suffering a second seizure before treatment will quite likely incur paralysis.

All in all it's a serious condition, but not unworkable I think. Is 10 BP too few? Perhaps, though the equivalent in nuyen will keep you in meds for a couple of years.
NiL_FisK_Urd
The Medication only helps to combat the outbreak of TLE-x, once you have it, there is no medication against it.
Yerameyahu
While the rules *are* unforgivably vague (useless, even), this effect is also largely GM fiat. So that's a big concern, regardless of how long the effect actually lasts.
Method
The problem is that the disease rules in SR4A and Augmention do a really poor job of representing chronic conditions that have exacerbations (something I think needs to be rectified). The issue here is that epilepsy isnt an acute illness that goes away if you aren't seizing. I would say that if you take the quality then you have the disease, and the speed/resistance tests/drug are all meant to prevent seizures. I would just talk your GM about the speed.

ETA: also, take another look at the allergy rules. I think something similar would work better for TLE.

ETA2: and if you want some character inspiration look up Geschwind Syndrome. wink.gif
Aerospider
QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Feb 26 2012, 08:18 PM) *
The Medication only helps to combat the outbreak of TLE-x, once you have it, there is no medication against it.

Depends what you mean by 'having it'. It specifically helps with the Body + Willpower test, which you only roll if you have the condition. My initial reading was that once you fail a single B + W test the drugs become useless, but I could see the text being interpreted to mean it works for all your B + W tests but never does anything about the power or effects of the seizures.
Yerameyahu
It doesn't make sense to me. :/
Aerospider
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 26 2012, 11:13 PM) *
It doesn't make sense to me. :/

Well, bearing in mind that the RAW is unquestionably insufficient, here's how I read it:

At some point you develop the condition. This can be by choosing the quality, glitching an appropriate roll or simple GM fiat, but you should already have a low Essence from augmentation.

Whenever you find yourself in a stressful situation the GM can make you roll Body + Willpower (3) to avoid a seizure. If you've been taking the meds you get +3 to your DP for this. If you succeed nothing happens, but you can be made to roll again in future stressful situations.

If you fail you have a seizure. You roll Body (only) to resist the effects and each hit reduces the power from 5. If it hits 0 or less then nothing gets worse and you can carry on. If the power is still positive then you suffer from the following:
- Stun damage equal to the remaining power
- A -2 penalty to all physical actions through disorientation
- A further -2 penalty to all physical actions through paralysis
- If the current power exceeds your Reaction you are truly paralysed

This state remains in effect until one of the following happens:
- You get appropriate treatment, in which case the penalties and paralysis all go away but you still have to make Body + Willpower (3) rolls for stressful situations to see if it happens again
- You find yourself in another stressful situation, have to make another Body + Willpower (3) roll and fail again, in which case the current power increases by 5 and you get another Body roll to reduce the accumulated power and then suffer the effects afresh (i.e. stun damage equal to the new power, physical action penalties remain, paralysis must be checked for again)

Actually, looking at the text again there isn't really any indication that you do get that Body roll to reduce the power but hell I think it's a no-brainer to allow it.

Jesus this thing was badly done - I've just seen the blatant contradiction in the quality where it says you can remove the quality through genetic restoration treatments or brain surgery, despite that the TLE-x passage states clearly that these are not permanent cures. The only good thing about this condition is that they thought to put it in at all so fuck it, re-write it however you like. That's what I'm gonna do.
Yerameyahu
Sounds pretty good. smile.gif

Presumably, the treatment/brain surgery gets rid of TLE-x until it comes back.
Thanee
QUOTE (Aerospider @ Feb 27 2012, 02:13 AM) *
This state remains in effect until one of the following happens:
- You get appropriate treatment, in which case the penalties and paralysis all go away but you still have to make Body + Willpower (3) rolls for stressful situations to see if it happens again
- You find yourself in another stressful situation, have to make another Body + Willpower (3) roll and fail again, in which case the current power increases by 5 and you get another Body roll to reduce the accumulated power and then suffer the effects afresh (i.e. stun damage equal to the new power, physical action penalties remain, paralysis must be checked for again)


This here is exactly the part I am wondering about... the seizure effect lasts "forever", basically?

That just doesn't seem right.

QUOTE
Actually, looking at the text again there isn't really any indication that you do get that Body roll to reduce the power but hell I think it's a no-brainer to allow it.


Well, that at least is how diseases genereally work.

Bye
Thanee
Aerospider
QUOTE (Thanee @ Feb 27 2012, 09:59 AM) *
This here is exactly the part I am wondering about... the seizure effect lasts "forever", basically?

That just doesn't seem right.

Well it is a chronic degenerative condition. If you suffer a serious stroke you're never the same again - not that they're the same thing, but serves as an illustration.
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