http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COP_357_Derringer

I'm going to regret this, but: gun nuts, what're the SR4 stats of this? DV, range, mode, etc.

My totally uninformed thoughts were that it's a hold-out with 5P/-1, SS, Hold-out ranges, Ammo 4(b); hold-out class for Conceal, etc. Based on wikipedia.

I'm wondering if the tiny barrel(s) would reduce the .357 Magnum's DV/AP, though. I'm aware that I suggested Heavy Pistol stats, after all. I assume that's the selling point, because otherwise it's just a normal hold-out. The SS and break-action seem like okay tradeoffs, and it lacks some of the nifty features holdouts tend to have (MAD, etc.).

Well, as they've never printed what calibers do what damage...

I'd suggest 5P damage with no AP due to the short barrel, along with Holdout shooting range.

Just to be on the safe side.

It seems like a nifty little gun, anyway.

It's a great TV Holdout, very iconic, but from everything I've heard, a royal ***** to fire with that tiny grip.

'Course, you can probably load it with .38 Specials, do 4P damage, and not hurt your hand so much that your next shot is likely to hit.

That's the beauty of using it in an RPG. Style is all that matters.

That's why I loves me my Gear Pr0n books!

With a simple system (relatively) that Shadowrun has, what a item looks like is more important than what it can do. They're too close together.

I would just stat it out as a normal old hold-out, so

COP 357 Derringer
Std. Upgrades/Accessories:Vintage
4P - SA - 4(b) 6R 250¥

For a modern version of the same desing i would add smartlink and an option to shoot any number of barrels you want at the same time for the standard +1 damage and -1 recoil per extra barrel.
That would give it one shot at 7P or 2 shots at 5P.

Yeah, I thought about that based on the one in the book that does that (the over-under one). The thing is, the COP isn't like that, and I kinda like it that way. Also, given it's specifically designed for the *big* bullets, and specifically known for not having rapid fire… why throw away all that distinction? And who'd buy a 4(b) holdout without any benefits?

I agree, a modern 'version' could exist, but it'd be more like a holdout Sakura Fubuki than the COP. Which is an idea, but not this idea.

You could make it work somewhat like the Taurus Multi-6 from Arsenal. The Taurus can fire heavy pistol ammo in SS mode for 5DV -0AP. So making it into a SS 5P -0AP 4(b) hold-out isn't completely without support. You could likely change it to SA mode if you wanted without issue.

Ooh! Smart. That'd fit with the fact that the COP can be loaded with .38 Special, I assume.

If you were set on it firing big bullets, then id say it loads Heavy pistol rounds only, 5p, -1 ap, SS, hold out ranges -20%, and double recoil penalties.

You'd only be firing that practically at melee range.

Which basically means its as balanced as melee

Ever seen an American Derringer in 45-70 or 30-30 Calibers? Talk about Wrist-Busting.

What recoil penalties are you having from SS?

Hmm. 5P/-1 80% range, or 5P/-0 100% range. For reference, it's not a big difference, but noticeable:
0-5/15/30/50 is hold-out ranges (and light pistol, MP), versus
0-4/12/24/40.

Hehe, yeah TJ. Again, yay for RPGs not being reality.

So that if someone decides to make it SA, they'll be taking double penalty on second shot. Also note that recoil penalties apply to off-hand attacks as well.

So if you had 2 of these that were modded to SA and (for some silly reason decided to shoot them both in the same round dividing your pool in half...) first shot would have no penalty, second -1 (-2), third -2 (-4), and fourth -3 (-6)*

*values in parenthesis are the doubled uncompensated recoil values

I would go with the absence of the Inherent AP of the Round, so 5p, AP0, 100% Range, though he other option is also good due to the extreme short barrel. *shrug*

Indeed...

Oh, thanks ZeroPoint.

I figured you could put the last portion of the post together yourself, but I thought I'd go ahead and put it out there just to make sure everyone knew where i was going.

I'd add the option of a 4-round burst as a Complex action, just for fun

Hold-out, 5P, AP 0, SS/BF*, RC 1, 4(b), Avail 8R, 550
w/Barrel reduction, Electronic Firing. Can't take barrel or underbarrel mounts.
*All four barrels may be fired as a single long narrow burst with a Complex Action.

Hehe. However, if you get rid of the SS, it's just better than all the holdouts (and some of the light pistols).

Well, it's range is crappier (0-4/12/24/40) but yeah - which is why I changed it to SS.

Possibly say it can't take any mods at all, and introduce an optional one with built-in smartlink for 900?

Sounds good.

Good lord, why?

The barrel flash must be ridiculous, it wouldn't be at full power, and I doubt anyone I shoot with could keep that on target. I'll stick with pistol calibers in my pistols.

It'd be accurate for the first shot over the poker table.

That's what derringers are designed for, after all.

I have no idea why they were made in those calibers (Novelty Item maybe?). My Uncle had one in 45-70. The round was about 1/8th of an inch from the end of the barrel. So, no rifling to speak of, and an ultra short barrel to boot. Was a Hand Cannon, literally. Was a bit fun to shoot, but not all that accurate at all (Duh). And yes, the barrel flash was ridiculous, because you had a large amount (Almost All of it?) of still burning powder ejecting from the barrel. Had a long plume of flame, and great gouts of smoke as the ejected powder burned off in the air.

It was almost as much fun as the Philadelphia Derringer I grew up with. Black Powder pistol with a 2" barrel that we routinely loaded with whatever crap we could find. Ground Glass, BB's, nails, screws, rocks, whatever. Had a TON of fun with that one on our Ranch growing up.