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Yerameyahu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COP_357_Derringer

I'm going to regret this, but: gun nuts, what're the SR4 stats of this? DV, range, mode, etc.

My totally uninformed thoughts were that it's a hold-out with 5P/-1, SS, Hold-out ranges, Ammo 4(b); hold-out class for Conceal, etc. Based on wikipedia. smile.gif

I'm wondering if the tiny barrel(s) would reduce the .357 Magnum's DV/AP, though. I'm aware that I suggested Heavy Pistol stats, after all. I assume that's the selling point, because otherwise it's just a normal hold-out. The SS and break-action seem like okay tradeoffs, and it lacks some of the nifty features holdouts tend to have (MAD, etc.).
CanRay
Well, as they've never printed what calibers do what damage...

I'd suggest 5P damage with no AP due to the short barrel, along with Holdout shooting range.
Yerameyahu
Just to be on the safe side. smile.gif

It seems like a nifty little gun, anyway.
CanRay
It's a great TV Holdout, very iconic, but from everything I've heard, a royal ***** to fire with that tiny grip.

'Course, you can probably load it with .38 Specials, do 4P damage, and not hurt your hand so much that your next shot is likely to hit.
Yerameyahu
That's the beauty of using it in an RPG. biggrin.gif Style is all that matters.
CanRay
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 9 2012, 10:32 PM) *
That's the beauty of using it in an RPG. biggrin.gif Style is all that matters.
That's why I loves me my Gear Pr0n books! biggrin.gif

With a simple system (relatively) that Shadowrun has, what a item looks like is more important than what it can do. They're too close together.
Mäx
I would just stat it out as a normal old hold-out, so

COP 357 Derringer
Std. Upgrades/Accessories:Vintage
4P - SA - 4(b) 6R 250¥

For a modern version of the same desing i would add smartlink and an option to shoot any number of barrels you want at the same time for the standard +1 damage and -1 recoil per extra barrel.
That would give it one shot at 7P or 2 shots at 5P.
Yerameyahu
Yeah, I thought about that based on the one in the book that does that (the over-under one). The thing is, the COP isn't like that, and I kinda like it that way. Also, given it's specifically designed for the *big* bullets, and specifically known for not having rapid fire… why throw away all that distinction? And who'd buy a 4(b) holdout without any benefits?

I agree, a modern 'version' could exist, but it'd be more like a holdout Sakura Fubuki than the COP. Which is an idea, but not this idea. smile.gif
Hida Tsuzua
You could make it work somewhat like the Taurus Multi-6 from Arsenal. The Taurus can fire heavy pistol ammo in SS mode for 5DV -0AP. So making it into a SS 5P -0AP 4(b) hold-out isn't completely without support. You could likely change it to SA mode if you wanted without issue.
Yerameyahu
Ooh! Smart. That'd fit with the fact that the COP can be loaded with .38 Special, I assume.
ZeroPoint
If you were set on it firing big bullets, then id say it loads Heavy pistol rounds only, 5p, -1 ap, SS, hold out ranges -20%, and double recoil penalties.

You'd only be firing that practically at melee range.

Which basically means its as balanced as melee sarcastic.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 9 2012, 07:21 PM) *
Just to be on the safe side. smile.gif

It seems like a nifty little gun, anyway.


Ever seen an American Derringer in 45-70 or 30-30 Calibers? Talk about Wrist-Busting.
Yerameyahu
What recoil penalties are you having from SS? biggrin.gif

Hmm. 5P/-1 80% range, or 5P/-0 100% range. For reference, it's not a big difference, but noticeable:
0-5/15/30/50 is hold-out ranges (and light pistol, MP), versus
0-4/12/24/40.

Hehe, yeah TJ. Again, yay for RPGs not being reality.
ZeroPoint
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 10 2012, 10:40 AM) *
What recoil penalties are you having from SS? biggrin.gif


QUOTE
You could likely change it to SA mode if you wanted without issue.


So that if someone decides to make it SA, they'll be taking double penalty on second shot. Also note that recoil penalties apply to off-hand attacks as well.

So if you had 2 of these that were modded to SA and (for some silly reason decided to shoot them both in the same round dividing your pool in half...) first shot would have no penalty, second -1 (-2), third -2 (-4), and fourth -3 (-6)*

*values in parenthesis are the doubled uncompensated recoil values
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 10 2012, 08:40 AM) *
What recoil penalties are you having from SS? biggrin.gif

Hmm. 5P/-1 80% range, or 5P/-0 100% range. For reference, it's not a big difference, but noticeable:
0-5/15/30/50 is hold-out ranges (and light pistol, MP), versus
0-4/12/24/40.

Hehe, yeah TJ. Again, yay for RPGs not being reality.


I would go with the absence of the Inherent AP of the Round, so 5p, AP0, 100% Range, though he other option is also good due to the extreme short barrel. *shrug*

Indeed... smile.gif
Yerameyahu
Oh, thanks ZeroPoint. smile.gif
ZeroPoint
smile.gif

I figured you could put the last portion of the post together yourself, but I thought I'd go ahead and put it out there just to make sure everyone knew where i was going.
snowRaven
I'd add the option of a 4-round burst as a Complex action, just for fun spin.gif

Hold-out, 5P, AP 0, SS/BF*, RC 1, 4(b), Avail 8R, 550 nuyen.gif
w/Barrel reduction, Electronic Firing. Can't take barrel or underbarrel mounts.
*All four barrels may be fired as a single long narrow burst with a Complex Action.
Yerameyahu
Hehe. However, if you get rid of the SS, it's just better than all the holdouts (and some of the light pistols).
snowRaven
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 10 2012, 05:25 PM) *
Hehe. However, if you get rid of the SS, it's just better than all the holdouts (and some of the light pistols).


Well, it's range is crappier (0-4/12/24/40) but yeah - which is why I changed it to SS.

Possibly say it can't take any mods at all, and introduce an optional one with built-in smartlink for 900?
Yerameyahu
Sounds good.
thorya
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 10 2012, 10:38 AM) *
Ever seen an American Derringer in 45-70 or 30-30 Calibers? Talk about Wrist-Busting.


Good lord, why?

The barrel flash must be ridiculous, it wouldn't be at full power, and I doubt anyone I shoot with could keep that on target. I'll stick with pistol calibers in my pistols.
CanRay
QUOTE (thorya @ Mar 10 2012, 10:56 PM) *
Good lord, why?

The barrel flash must be ridiculous, it wouldn't be at full power, and I doubt anyone I shoot with could keep that on target. I'll stick with pistol calibers in my pistols.
It'd be accurate for the first shot over the poker table.

That's what derringers are designed for, after all.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (thorya @ Mar 10 2012, 07:56 PM) *
Good lord, why?

The barrel flash must be ridiculous, it wouldn't be at full power, and I doubt anyone I shoot with could keep that on target. I'll stick with pistol calibers in my pistols.


I have no idea why they were made in those calibers (Novelty Item maybe?). My Uncle had one in 45-70. The round was about 1/8th of an inch from the end of the barrel. So, no rifling to speak of, and an ultra short barrel to boot. Was a Hand Cannon, literally. Was a bit fun to shoot, but not all that accurate at all (Duh). And yes, the barrel flash was ridiculous, because you had a large amount (Almost All of it?) of still burning powder ejecting from the barrel. Had a long plume of flame, and great gouts of smoke as the ejected powder burned off in the air. smile.gif

It was almost as much fun as the Philadelphia Derringer I grew up with. Black Powder pistol with a 2" barrel that we routinely loaded with whatever crap we could find. Ground Glass, BB's, nails, screws, rocks, whatever. Had a TON of fun with that one on our Ranch growing up. smile.gif
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