Spike Baby :
10Pts pos Quality(a combination of positives & negatives)
(You're an Elf born between 1910 and 2010. Full transformation,elfish appearence and longevity happened in 2011)
You get addional (LOG + INT) x3 Points of Knowledgeskills for free
You get School of Hard Knocks and College Education
You suffer a -1 to all Social Skills because You're so old school/old fashioned
You get a Lvl 1 Distinctive Style (just like a Surgeling)

He who dances like David Bowie
Medicineman

It's a lot of benefits for 10 BPs, and I don't think the Distinctive Style fits - they won't look different on the outside, after all.

Also, the -1 die on Social skills seems off, unless it would apply to everyone born before 2010.

Yeah, I'd say that this is a bit much for a sole 10 BP.

Maybe the character just gets +5 or +10 knowledge skill points for that much. I can't think of any reason for the rest of what's there.

a surgeling does neither and he gets one too
distinctive style is also about being tracked and thats why i included it

unless it would apply to [i]everyone born before 2010.[/i]maybe everybody who was Born around WWII or the 60s ?

consider s.o. who was born before WWI ,don't you think he would be seen a wee bit oldfashioned today ?

with an oldfashioned Dance
Medicineman

Surgelings very frequently do look different, but you can have Distinctive Style for other features, yes.

It does seem like a crazy number of benefits, even though they're all Knowledge.

Uhm, that's not how Spike Babies work...

Yeah, I was about to ask if the OP as mixing up immortal elves and spike babies.




-k

My suggestion for Spike Baby :
20Pts pos Quality:
You're one of the few in the world, an elf born before 2000 AD. You've seen it all, and well sometimes a face plant is all you can do when you see people do the same thing over and over again. History repeats itself way too much, and the more you see the more you realize that people are so predictable.


You get a +2 dice when making any knowledge check that involves history.
You gain a +1 Social Skills because you've seen so much.
You gain immunity to age.

*Special Restriction:If you take more than 4 points worth of Essence in cyber or bioware you loose your immunitty to age.

I thought that hardknocks and college education were a bit much. That some spike babies may our may not have those characteristics. I also thought a +2 to certain knowledge checks involving history was more appropriate than a set of free skills. Most knowledge gained is probably useless (like knowing how to operate a rotary phone is these days). I'd say it would be a +1 to social tests since they have been dealing with people so long they pick up on things that others might miss. Immunity to Age is a nod to the immortal elves as opposed to normal elves not that it would effect the game all that much. Are all spike babies immortal?

If you're a Spike Baby, you would've probably been born in either 1910 or 1986; the last two perihelia of Hally's Comet.

That's a lot of difference. Remember, FastJack himself isn't much younger than a Spike Baby who was born in '86, whereas a Spike Baby born in 1910 has seen some shenanigans, man. Think about what happened: when they were a child, World War I was raging across Europe. They might even have been affected by the fighting if they were born in Europe. The world was knocked down, and then they got to witness firsthand the rise of the Third Reich, which probably hit them extra-hard if their birth-name was something like Wiesenthal or Goldberg and they were still in Europe. It's not remotely inconceivable that such a spike baby might actually be a holocaust survivor; or else have fought in the war; they might have seen firsthand the Blitz or the meat-grinder that was Omaha Beach. If they were in the Pacific, of course, there's no shortage whatsoever of battles they could have fought in; hell, maybe that's how they picked up their obligatory katana; war-trophy from a Japanese officer.

Then skip forward a few more years: the Korean war and the tide of Red Chinese that pushed the world back to the 38th parallel, forcing a stalemate. A few more years and the Vietnam War rages throughout southeast Asia, dominating the world's political landscape for a decade; the biggest, mightiest superpower on Earth throwing everything at a pissant little third-world country and losing. He might have witnessed the fall of Saigon, either firsthand or on TV. Then he would have seen the rise of the microchip; the advent of the personal computer. He probably kicks himself for not investing heavily in IBM and Microsoft and Apple. The relative peace of the 1980s and the 1990s would have offered some much-needed respite, only for everything to be shattered on 9/11/01 when terrorists misappropriate some jumbo jets for uses which are not of their intended purpose. They'd be there for the rise of watch lists and no-fly lists and get to see the whole mess of Vietnam repeat itself in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we haven't even gotten to the start of the Sixth World yet; everything's going to go to hell in a handbasket, up whitewater shit rapids without a kayak, let alone a paddle, with the rise of Extraterritoriality, Dragons, Magic, VITAS I and II, the Crash 1.0, the amazing (and for this guy, probably heartbreaking) fall of and balkanization of the greatest nation the world has ever known, the rise of greedy, bloodsucking Megacorporations deploying orbital weapons against urban targets who haven't (by the standards he grew up with) done anything wrong, HMHVV, UGE, Goblization, SURGE, Spirits, Bug Spirits, Shedim, The Matrix, Simsense and Hot VR, The Crash 2.0, Desert Wars, Euro Wars, the revelation of Artificial Intelligences, Nanotechnology, The Wireless Matrix, Cybertechnology, Biotechnology, Genetic Enhancement, and Augmented Reality!

So basically, this guy shouldn't have to make Composure tests. Like, ever.

Or constantly, depending on how well he adapted. The problem with this concept is that it kind of forces you to be a certain kind of Spike Baby, depending on the various effects suggested. You're unflappable, or you're a student of human nature, or you soaked up lots of knowledge… but what if you didn't? I guess you can just say you're a Spike Baby and not take the Quality. Seems inflexible, I guess.

Well... IIRC, there are several Spike Babies born in the 1600-1800 Range (don't remember the exact dates, maybe they also coincided with the return of Haley's). There are 2 Tir princes that are/were in the 400 year old range.

I also was wondering why you actually needed to have a Quality to have such a character. Just work it out with your GM. No need for additional abilities or powers.

Well, I guess if he didn't, if he managed to live from 1910/1086-2072 without picking up a lot of knowledge or going through the meat-grinders or both, then he managed to live a remarkably sheltered and ignorant life.

Also, when most 'Runners who have Flashbacks have them, they're probably flashing back to, at worst, the Night of Rage. When this guy flashes back, he's a child running for his life from a rolling artillery bombardment, or a young man ducking Nazi death squads through the ghettos, or maybe a young man leading a squad of Airborne Infantry or Marines into the very maw of death itself; anywhere in Europe or Southeast Asia, anytime between 1939-1975. Like I said: he's seen some shenanigans, man. You could use a Spike Baby as an excuse to load your Runner up with a cornucopia of mental woes and a firsthand account of history.

Sure, but it all depends. There's no reason he had to have been in any of those events, for sure. Or he has a bad memory, or who knows.

Apparitions of Halley's Comet. The 1600-1910 list is as follows:
October 1607: Hey, you got to live in the days of Wooden Ships and Iron Men! Were you a pirate who sailed the high seas?
September 1682: Still the age of sail... Moving right along.
March 1759: Still the age of sail, but think about what you're about to see! The American Revolution, shortly followed by the French revolution! You might even have fought in them; they recruited young back then! Did you suffer bitter, terrible winters alongside General Washington, or maybe you stormed the Bastille in Paris? Maybe you got adventurous later on and took to the high seas around the turn of 1800; you might have seen the Battle of Trafalgar. Hell, if you're Spanish, you might have shot Nelson.
November 1835: You were born in the middle of the Industrial Revolution. You're going to witness the rise and fall of steam power, son. Also the American Civil War in about thirty years, won't that be "fun"?

Whats the point of making a character who's a century (or centuries) old if you're not going to exploit it and have seen the pivotal moments of your time? You might as well just make a young elf.

Hehe. My point is just that each of these is one specific kind of person, and they're all kinda different.

Yes, but a Spike Baby, especially a 1910 Spike Baby, lived a long time when civilization was at its peak. He could have fought in those wars and then gone on to achieve excellence in education, probably shot forward by exploiting the G.I. Bill or something.


Oh, I see. No, I wasn't suggesting absolutely everything there at once. Some of that would be chronologically impossible. No, I was just tossing out scattershot ideas as they came to me.

So why not make it a quality, and work out your particular history, and then work with the GM on an appropriate bonus for it....

You mean like, "Spike Baby (5-20 BP): Work it out with your GM"? That's a little *too* flexible.

More like Spike Baby (20pts)
Immunity to Age
+1 to two knowledge skills
+1 to two active skills


...you limit it to actually adding to the skills instead of providing a dice pool modifier, therefore its not to huge, and IMO the Immunity to Age is huge in and of itself.

Speaking of… why Immunity to Age? Is this a thing? I thought they were just elves, etc.

and as a sidenote, are Spike Babies truly Immortal, or are the just ageless.

Because if they are truly Immortal then there is not much of a reason to bother playing one, if they are ageless, well, then obviously they have to have SOME skills to survive as long as they have.

They're definitely not immortal. I don't even think they're ageless. They're just elves and dwarves (yes?) born pre-6th World.

Yes, there is a vast difference between a Spike Baby and an Immortal Elf, Who are also not truly immortal. They can be killed just like anyone else can.

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with making up a special quality. Spike babies are after all normal elves, only with an earlier birth date. I don't see any reason for skill bonuses. People unlearn stuff they don't practice regularly, and a "firsthand account" bonus on history knowledge checks is IMHO also questionable. What they may remember from back then may not actually be the truth but rather biased news/propaganda of the day, and, perhaps more importantly, memories aren't set in stone but change over time.

Correctamundo
I only know of Spike Elves
the only Spike Dwarf appeeared in on of the early Novels so he is not canon

I gave the Spike Babies the School of hard knocks and College Education to give them a little boost(it's a mere +1 Dice) to their knowlede Skills because they've seen & experienced more than any other Person in the 6th World(except for Dragons and IEs)
all known Spike Babies are born in the 20th century (I'm deliberately ignoring the One who became Nosferatu !).
Why do they have to be linked to the Halley Comet ?
The Comet is a plausible explanation for a Manaspike but not the only one.
I would limit a Spike baby to be born in the 20th century or else it gets quite difficult to explain his lack of Skills( I mean if he's >200 Years old he would need 100 Karma just for reasonable Knowledge Skills and the same amount for active Skills )
a 20th Century Spike Baby is also in Canon with the other official Ones

HokaHey
Medicineman

Yeah, I like the basic idea, it just seems excessive. They could just take the qualities this quality is made of.

I seems that I like to "dance" at the Border of excessive (for some GMS I crossed these borders and for some its still OK)
especially in Shadowrun
(but ,to be Honest ,what I've seen and read here in Dumpschock ...some of You are permanent residents of ....wahay beyond the Border )


with a Dance at the Border
Medicineman

Neither. Spike babies are simply elves and (very few) dwarfs born before UGE, when "mana spikes" temporarily brought the mana level high enough for their metagenes to express. Of course a spike baby could in theory be an immortal elf (who are immune to age, pathogens, and toxins), but given the rarity of both events by themselves, what's the chance of them occurring together?

No, it doesn't. Because people forget stuff they don't practice regularly. And spike babies have the same amount of time per day that the rest of the world has. Of course Shadowrun has no rules for skill degradation (the only game that has such rules that I'm aware of is GURPS). But IMHO that just means skill degradation isn't worth bothering with for the average Shadowrun campaign. It doesn't mean that people in the setting's "reality" actually accumulate skills ad infinitum.

Not to mention that even if they remember stuff, much of the knowledge a spike baby from, let's say, 1800 had learned during their lifetime would be seriously outdated by the time of the game.

Thanks for the clarification,

In that case, well i can see arguments for both sides of +'s and -'s. Anyone who was transformed before UGE is bound to have been the target of idiocy...oh, sorry, i meant "social ostracism" simply due to the fact that they were that different, I mean look at the way we treat people now, simply because of their skin color or accent (and i use "we" very loosely). People as a whole are dumb panicky animals (Thank you Agent K). So i can see a case for social -'s simply due to that.

Then again I can see a case for several +'s as well, no one can live for that long without learning SOMETHING about the way people think, what makes them tick. Thats one of the main reasons why so many succesful politicians are older, because, cliche as it may seem, Age and Treachery will always win over Youth and Skill.

I would not allow the Quality as initially written in the original post in my game. However I'd entertain the concept, and if presented strongly enough I'd acquiesce.

Which can IMHO be adequately expressed by an appropriate choice of skills and existing qualities without need for a new "special snowflake" quality.

True enough

And of course, an Immortal can learn a great number of things. But as a GM I'd ask for background to justify that knowledge, otherwise you'd be a hundred some old waste of time. (Yeah I was there in the sixties, frying my brains.)

"So, what did you do in the 1970s?" "Dungeons and Dragons." "1980s?" "D&D and watching A-Team and MacGyver." "1990s?" "I don't talk about the '90s."

Now I'm really curious about the 1990s...

He was probably a Vampire: The Masquerade LARPer. Y'know, the creepy kind, that tries to use the game as a vehicle to hit on women.

Oh please, I've done far worse wenching in the golden age of piracy!

No, I refuse to talk about the '90s. Period. Fragging. Dot.

Move on.

I'd also, looking over this once more, make sure the rest of the group was okay with this. This could be a pretty serious edge, or conversely a cast iron albatross to deal with. I'd make sure they were cool with it.

Pah. That's for amateurs!

Can you show me on this calendar where the '90s touched you?

points (shakingly and with Tears of Fear & Loathing in his Eyes) with his Finger to February/March 1998
this was the reunion of Modern Talking

with a nightmarish Dance
Medicineman

April 26 1992....there was a riot on the streets tell me where were you?

IIRC he was mentioned in the German Source book. So I think he's cannon (born in 1996 or something, family sued because they thought it was caused by a chemical spill/exposure and got enough money that he was able to buy land for his kingdom.