Say a character cast a voluntary illusion spell on himself roughly equivalent to blindness+deafness. Say, then, that the character was captured and had a magemask put on them. How much would you say that the horrendous TN penalties from the magemask would be cancelled?

Refresh my memories of what the magemask does?

It feeds the mage white noise, giving +6 to all mental actions and meaning they need to make a willpower test (TN 10) to project.

Not sure if it's canon, but mine also monitor the mage's vitals and deliver steadily increasing shocks if it detects a state corresponding to projection. Anyway, I'd say the +6 to all mental actions is cancelled, but they can't cast spells that require LOS or speaking, since they have a gag tube in place.

Cancel the willpower test to project since there's no interference either.

"hah! got you in a magemask, sucker! now, you're helpless!"
*flame aura*
"aaaaaiiiiee! my flesh!"

I cast invisibility on the magemask!

technically, you cast on yourelf so you think the mask isnt there! but then, everybody argues again if magical invisibility gives you LOS

Er. Maybe I'm not following the conversation correctly.

You want to create a spell that imposes blindness and deafness... to reduce the penalties of being both while wearing the mask?

My solution? Get cybereyes and a tool laser.

Well the mask imposes huge modifiers (+6) on concentration as it floods your sight and hearing with white noise. The idea is that if you block-out the white noise then the distraction goes away so you can concentrate more easily. If you could cancel the +6, replacing it with the +1 or +2 of a sustained spell, then spellcasting (IE: Levitating yourself) and Conjuring (Knock-out the guards and take this hood off me) become somewhat easier.

Eye laser is interesting, but I doubt it could cancel the penalties from the audio part of the white noise.

Ah. I thought it just made you blind. Besides... You know that being blind imposes an +8 TN modifier to spellcasting, too.

So. Yes. Get an ally spirit to take it off of you, or use the tool laser to just slice the mask off. And use your atheletics to try and slip out of the straightjacket. You'll have a lot of time to get it right.

Of course, show me a mage that has a tool laser... And I'll give you a Tickle-Me-Lofwyr doll.

Ram (Magemask)?

Hmm. I always ruled that if you were touching someone then visual mods didn't apply. I suppose some GMs might still apply it though.

If you can't cast at yourself when you can't see yourself then an invisible mage could cast an area-effect combat spell (or similar malicious spell) centered on himself and not take damage... I suppose this would be the topic of another thread though.

I think you just gave every single combat mage out there a six foot boner, Lilt.

given that invisible characters don't take TN penalties to their own actions (how do you line up a shot if your gunsights are invisible?), i'd say that invisible characters are visible to themselves. i'd also rule that touching a target negates any cover/vision modifiers; ruling otherwise feels incredibly silly ("dammit, i've got him by the throat, but the blindfold he's holding over my eyes protects him from my spells!"). since one cannot help but be touching themselves (especially when i think about you!), casting a spell on yourself should be possible even if you've been blinded.

I was wondering when the inevitable masturbation joke was gonna come around. And MFB beat me to it. Now I'm sad. Alright, then. Let's take this discussion to the next level.

If you're touching someone while blind, you have no vision penalty for casting spells on yourself.

Now. If you've made yourself blind in such a way, would you suffer the +8 TN to cast a spell on anyone ELSE you aren't touching?

your statements are confusing. i'm not sure what touching someone else while you're blind has to do with casting spells on yourself. did you mean casting spells on the guy you're touching? if so, i'd say the answer is yes--as long as line-of-sight is not interrupted by physical obstructions, your target is valid (if difficult).

Sorry. It's early, and I'm not too coherent to begin with. Unless I'm mistaken, Lilt is trying to figure out a way to reduce/eliminate the penalties incurred with a magemask on.

1) A magemask implies a hefty penalty
2) Lilt wants to reduce the penalty by rendering the light and sound portion of the mask useless with a caster only spell that combines deafness and blindness.
3) We both agree that casting spells on things you are touching (Yourself, other people, the floor, what have you) should not suffer from visibility TNs.
4) My question is this: Lilt is now deaf and blind of his own volition. Does he now suffer +8 from blindness to cast a manaball on Joe secguard? Not to mention the sustaining penalties? Or did I miss the point entirely?

Actually, my question is this.

5) How does making yourself blind and deaf make the situation -any- better?

In a sick and twisted way, that almost makes sense. I need a hug.

Just cast a powertouch spell on the magemask, might take a while to roll the high target, but you have plenty of time to do it, you can use the same spell then on your manicles, straightjacket, cell door, guards etc etc.

I used to rule it that you could use touch range instead of sight, but MitS is pretty specific that a touch range spell and a LOS spell are completely different spells.

you won't be able to see through the magemask with astral perception, any more than you'd be able to see through a wall. you also wouldn't be able to cast a spell at any target besides the magemask and yourself, unless you're touching the target (stumbling into the sec guard, or whatever). however, you could cast powerbolt on the mask, destroying it; you could cast invisibility on yourself and hope the sec guards aren't employing a mage of their own; or you could perform any variation on those two themes--all without taking the +8 blindness penalty.

well, that's the point of the spell under discussion. it blinds and deafens you, so that the +6 doesn't apply.

I'd allow the spell, but casting it or getting any sucesses at it is going to be real tough, since IMHO the +6 would definitely apply when you cast it the first time.

why i'd cast it as soon as i saw the hood coming. but, yeah, if you wake up with the mask already in place, you're going to have an interesting time of it.