Hello, I was wondering if anyone might have some tips for building a sniper/infiltrator character in SR 4A. The game is normal 400 BP, with two exceptions. The Availability Cap has been lifted, and BP convert into 10,000 Nuyen each.

As for the build itself, I know that I want to be fairly competent at long-mid range combat, silent, and hopefully unseen for as long as possible. Recon type stuff would also be helpful, as would at least minor hacking/rigger skills with more emphasis on Rigging for drones seeing as they seem useful for recon and backup support. I haven't really made any characters like this before, and I don't know much of the matrix/rigging rules since I've mostly stuck to magic. Any help is greatly appreciated, and sorry if I end up asking a bunch of questions about how the stuff works.

Just a few thoughts, and I expect more (and likely better) advice to come out to help flush out things I'll miss.

Longarms 5 with a specialization, cybereyes with at least a Smartlink installed, a Smartgun installed in your choice of rifle (take the mod for a built-in suppressor & electronic firing), elf with Exceptional Attribute or Genetic Optimization for Agility 7 (and potential 8 later), either Muscle Replacement or Muscle Toner at rating 4. If you've got the points, Aptitude for Longarms can get you an extra point.

For drones, a variety of small fliers with an improved sensor package (heavily decked out), and network in a rating 4 TacSoft.

Yeah, you've chosen a pretty easy build (one of my favorites, too). I dunno how much you're about 'power', but sometimes I like to get 2 lower limbs with the jumping jacks—when I infiltrate, it's fun to me to include climbing, jumping, etc. If you're *not* trying for 'maxed out' stuff, I'd completely skip BP-sinks like Exceptional Attribute. Cybereyes can be fully replaced with contacts/goggles/whatever, or even just body-mounted sensors. You definitely do want some small sensor drones of various kinds. Muscle Rep is another easy way to get a big relevant stat boost, and helps with Strength-related skills. (Optimizers will disagree with this as well, so ignore everything if you're one of them. )

Power is good, but I definitely do not want to overspecialize in one thing. A good mix of all the different Recon type stuff, and infiltration is mainly what I want. I do know I'll have at least a few ranks into Demolition, but other than that I don't really know yet. The main problem I am running into is what gear to actually get in terms of Cyberware/Bioware. One of the things I had been thinking of was Synaptic Boosters 3, but those are pretty expensive.

Yeah, I'd contain myself to Wires 2 (though a true generalist might sink the BP required for MBW 2 instead, and use the skillwires?). Last time I played this character, it was something like telescoping (why not?) lower legs with jumping jacks and monkey paws, Wires 2, Muscle Rep 2, lots of (non-implant) sensors, etc. I find that this allows you to be a real 'ninja' scout guy, which easily accommodates hacking, sniping, and sneaking.

Move by wire 3: normally not available at chargen even with restricted gear and massively powerful. Be sure to get a skillwires expert system to go with it. Reaction, IP, Dodge, and Skillwires all in one package.
Sleep regulator for long duration target stalking
Attention coproccessor (or bio equivalent) for a flat perception boost.
Heavy muscle toner is more important than any strength boost.
At minimum an image link, preferably full eye package with laser microphone and both thermo and low-light.
Ears are often underrated.
Active systems like radar and ultrasound are easily detected, possibly even located, so only get these for when stealth has failed.
A good logic combined with nice hardware, locksmith, and similar skills gets you past security measures without facing hackers or IC.
Mobility helpers like magnetic grip hands or gecko grip are also very useful.
So many options, so little time

Right, that MBW isn't a real option, and Muscle Rep is cheaper than Toner, and some Strength is handy.

Good to clarify:
I beleive he said in an earlier post that availability limits were gone so MBW3 starts looking tempting, especially for a multi-role sniper/scout/rigger.
I definitely didn't mean to imply that he should dump strength, only that he doesn't need to jack it heavily. Moderate strength (roughly Body +1) should make him a competant climber, especially if he gets gecko gloves or similar.

For making any sort of infiltration, sniper, or special forces type the Tir Ghosts NPC (p 283 SR4A) are a good place to start.

Most of the NPCs are nowhere near optimized. They work really well for low to mid power campaigns, but need serious tweaking for higher-end tables.

Having said that, I think the Tir Ghosts are a very good stepping off point for modeling your character's attributes and skills. Most of their stuff is in Skill Groups (I assume to save space), but you can take a gander at what they've got and see a good start with which to make changes to. Cut some of the groups down to individual skills and tweak things around a bit (oh and add some Influence skills since they don't have any as Mook NPCs) and you'll be off to a good start.

If you're looking for a Special Forces or sniper type (or anyone with some sort of training from a military or paramilitary organization), then there will be a few things you're going to find in common:

Athletics - Physical fitness is very important to any military on the planet. Not to mention its application in general B&E and Infiltrating.
Infiltration - Obvious. You don't magically pop up at a firing point.
Disguise - Aside from sneaking into buildings using costume (Janitor etc), this is used to apply camouflage.
Weapon Skill - One should likely be your "specialized" weapon. Plan on a second firearm at a lower rate as a backup (ex: Longarms/Pistol)
Close Combat - No self respecting military organization would go without at least a cursory understanding of close combat.
Throwing - Grenades. Particularly some kind of smoke for egress or Flashbangs when clearing a building.
Perception - Pretty obvious for a sniper. Someone who is used to taking shots at 500+ meters needs to be able to spot targets that far.
Navigation - What self respecting sniper can't find his mark and get to it independent of the rest of the force?
Survival - They might not be Bear Grylls, but a Sniper should be able to protect himself from nasty environments for a few days at a time.
Tracking - Perhaps to a lesser extent for military snipers, but an outdoorsy hunter type should have this.


That looks like a pretty intimidating list, and I even omitted social skills (anyone who stays in the military for a whole tours worth should have at least a tiny bit of etiquette, and someone who has to bluff his way to the top of a building for an urban shot should maybe consider some Con). It also fails to consider a few other skills that a Sniper (who operates as a pair with only his Spotter for immediate back up) should possibly have in the 2072 military, technical skills like a small splash of computer or electronics skills. Perhaps the most important part of that bunch is ECM so they can ensure good communications while isolated. Point is, those are things which I feel most Sniper types, regardless of origin or where they were trained, should account for.

You need to figure out the general "power level" of your game; for example if most people's specialty hits, say, 12-16 dice before modifiers and their "secondary" skills are around 10 then you have good numbers to work with. Your primary weapon should be in the primary range, infiltration stuff at least in the secondary range, and you have a whole host of other stuff that you can stick either in the secondary DP range or lower as sort of "Fluff Skills" (things you have been given cursory training in but have not pursued or specialized yourself towards).

Since you have a lot of flexibility with money, you really might want to consider minor drone support like others have mentioned. There will be times when your team doesn't need you infiltrated but wants sniper support instead, for those times you'll want some Drones for surveilance (or to keep a tac net up) and to "feel useful" while you're putzing around waiting for a shot.

You're right, I missed that he said that. Still… so expensive.

Yeah. My perssonal style when I make a sniper is to skip IP boosters and instead take 'adrenal surge' for the first shot advantage in conjunction with a good reaction for ambush checks (ie reaction enhancers). And perception...so much perception.
But that could be just me.

If you want to play something a little different, and are willing to pay the BP up charge, you may want to look at using the Haruman dwarf metavariant (from Runner's Companion) instead of an Elf as your race.

You might find it helpful to look at the Mercenary Rigger (first link in my sig) for some ideas. An extra 250k and no availability cap should help quite a lot. You can probably tweak that character into what you want by cutting the build/repair skills, adding one of the skills that gets you sniping weapons (Heavy Weapons, Automatics, or Longarms) and maybe Demolitions, and spending the extra 250k with no availability limit.

Another option that works really, really well with those rules would be a Robocop type character, meaning replace your torso, both arms, and both legs with cyberlimbs. Lots o' cash and no availability limit means that you do really well like this, and I think you can do that, afford decent hacking equipment, and be able to get the skills you need since this lets you bomb your meat body/agility/strength.

Actually if the availability cap has been completely lifted, then that means he could build one badass rigger/hacker and exploit the crap out of the Otomo or Tomino. It's like having a full cyber replacement without worrying about essence costs, not to mention the border-line cheesy (well cheesier, it's a 'borg body we're already dealing with cheesy) fact that the Otomo's limbs don't need anything but enhanced Body because everything else boils down to either the body or the maneuverability.

I'm not entirely sure how all of that works though, mostly because no GM has ever been dumb enough to give someone shifty like me 500k and no availability caps to start with.

That's neither here nor there though, dude wants a sniper.

He's at way too much money to just be a Sniper. Muscle Aug/Toner 4 would barely put a dent into it and he's got plenty of money to be a lot more than a mediocre hacker. Having that much money without an increase from 400BP might end up more curse than blessing.

I did an archetypical assassin build once, so here is that one, modified for the house rules (he had restricted gear x 3 and born rich before, so dropping that and dropping resources to 50 let me give him two other positive qualities and still have 20 BP to round him out a bit more - then I spent most of the extra 200,000 on skillsofts). So here he is:

I will certainly accept any possible suggestion for how to handle the whole "You have 500,000 Nuyen, and NOBODY gives a fuck what you buy with it. Go nuts."
Rigging/drones interest me a bit, but I know little about them. I don't even know if I can sensibly spend 500k on 'ware.

Oh you certainly can.

For Hacking Logic is immaterial, just need a couple skills and a crapton of programs. Programs are expensive.

Pretty much the same for Rigging? Drones etc are expensive.

F it. Get a Helicopter.

On second thought, I probably shouldn't answer this. Your GM will never trust you with anything ever again.

The campaign is meant to be a high powered merc thing. Also, the GM himself suggested getting a helicopter.

You might consider a sniper style drone to do your shooting - some kind of flying medium drone - rotor drone?

Chameleon suit goes without saying I suppose for hiding.

Powered glider with chameleon coating to get you onto rooftops (or off rooftops as a pick up, it can fly itself with pilot). I dont think you really need rigging for this, maybe.

Low altitude parachute for "basejumping" escapes from high buildings, or to land on rooftops.

Grapple gun/gecko gloves for crossing between buildings or to save yo ass if you have to jump off a building without a parachute. So parachute skill and climbing skills.

A bit of demolitions skill might not go astray, if you get caught indoors and need to blow a wall to escape. Not quiet, but might give you an exit when otherwise you're trapped.

Breathtaker gas grenades (you take internal air tank/gas mask). Non-lethal way of clearing a room or herding guards.

Wide band radar to see through walls, help you avoid trouble.

It's actually quite reasonable to make a sniper who actually just lives in a van and has drones snipe people for him. By "snipe" I generally mean "vaporize with an autocannon," but when you do it from 5km away, you count as a sniper.

Throw the sniper rifle in the trash and use an assault cannon.

Yep, the biggest problem you are facing is to LIMIT the scope of the character. The money might tempt you into getting more than you can handle.

So, I would start with what you really need:

Firearms Group (just makes sense to be able to use all guns)
Longarms (check with GM whether this is allowed, i.e. learn group and then immediately break it up to advance a skill from it during chargen)
Perception
Infiltration

Some sort of close combat training?
Athletics Group?
Vehicle skills?

If you want to add decent rigger capabilities, you need a number of additional skills, like

Computer
Electronic Warfare
Gunnery

Maybe others from Cracking/Electronics Group

The list of useful skills can easily grow pretty large.

First Aid
Armorer
Some Mechanics skills
etc.


If you go with 200 BP for Attributes and 50 BP for Resources, you are left with 150 BP (plus some you might gain from Negative Qualities).

That is mostly for Skills, but also Edge and Contacts.

That is not a lot to play with, especially if you want your skills at decent levels.


Therefore I would start with your core skills, those that make you a good sniper and a good sneak. Then see what is left and what else you might be able to squeeze into the concept.


As for Attributes, you should rely heavily on cyberware/bioware to augment your Attributes, simply because you can, i.e. Agility (Muscle Toner 4), Reaction (MBW 2 + Reaction Enhancer 3), Strength (Muscle Augmentation 4), Logic (Cerebral Booster 3) can easily be boosted that way.

Attributes could look like this:

Body 5
Agility 5(9)
Reaction 2(9)
Strength 1(5)
Charisma 2
Intuition 5
Logic 3(6)
Willpower 5

That's 200 BP (with the above-mentioned augmentations added in parantheses).

Bye
Thanee

As a general word of warning: Snipers are hard to integrate into a game, since runners often do not work on the open field

I think that depends on the game. If they're running a merc squad, a sniper would likely provide a key role (i.e. cover fire/overwatch).

Even in a "standard" game, any sniper should still be good with firearms, have a decent perception, and enough infiltration to be useful.

I agree with this sentiment, and most of the list posted. Instead of specifically trying to spend 500k you might be better off finding out what you actually need and hitting that number. Use remaining build points for skills.

Unless of course you just say fuck it, and get a helicopter. If you do try the helicopter route I'd recommend a Hughes Stallion(I picture it as something like a Blackhawk or a Huey); it is cheap (for a helicopter), sturdy, and ubiquitous. It'll also take a full load of armor, a concealed armored weapon turret, and give you another 6 slots to screw around with (2 drone racks? More non-concealed mounts inside the doors for the team to fire out of?). Of course that whole number goes to hell if concealability of the turrets isn't even a problem in the first place, you'd have a lot more room to screw around with your vehicle mods.

That gives you a chopper with a bit of bang-bang, enough seats and cargo space for a reasonably sized team, and maybe some fire support for the team through the drones for ~250k. That's plenty left over to make yourself a solid Rigger to fly the silly ass thing and maybe pick up a standard team van and a few more drones as well.

At this point though, it sounds like your GM has thrown out a couple suggestions as to things he'd like to see or is willing to allow and has sort of left you flapping as to what is actually going on. You might want to have a short, polite word with your GM for a wee bit more direction. If you're actually doing a heavy duty merc game the Helicopter becomes much more important for dropping off or extracting the team.

If you're considering using most of that cash to make yourself a heavy-duty Rigger, I would talk to the GM first. The rules aren't written all that great aside from what rolls are necessary, so how well you can control a small fleet boils down to what your GM thinks is possible and how smart he thinks a Pilot Program is. So I wouldn't commit to anything like that if the GM just doesn't roll like that.

You have more than enough money to make yourself a badass Sniper or Street Samurai in general and still be able to have a few drones either acting as your own personal squad (your GM interpretes the rules how I do and lets them run semi-autonomously) which will let you do some nifty things.

Even if the GM doesn't interpret it that way you could pick up a Kull or two (dropping off a load of equipment inside a compound is awesome, same as dropping off a load of base-jumping chutes at the top of a building), and even if the GM rules they are stupid and you need manual control, one aerial drone packing an MGL-12 with Extra Clip and an assortment of Frag and Pepper Punch grenades lets you essentially call in your own air support when needed.

Anyway, you see where I'm going here. You should have another talk with the GM because right now you sound like you're sort of between Sniper, Rigger, and Helicopter. You have more than enough money to do any of those things, and maybe a combination of a couple of them (depending on expected power level, which is another thing we're not counting on. Whether the GM expects you to show up with 16 dice or 24 dice to do whatever it is you're doing, it makes a pretty huge difference). I don't feel comfortable doing anything more than tossing out a couple suggestions here and there until you're a bit more set on what it is you're trying to do, then I'll be ok getting more specific.

I think all we are really doing in this thread is inflicting one of the world's worst cases of "Kid in a candy shop" syndrome.

Edit: I'm too busy to make sense right now, so I just emphasized what I felt was most important.

Agreed: 'sniper' almost never actually means 'long range assassin', for me. It's always more like 'scout/support/sensors/sneaky'.

...and 9 times out of 10 if the shit does hit the fan you're more likely to use that heavy duty sniper rifle as a mid-ranged combatant in my experience.

Which is why my snipers get Automatics instead of Longarms in the first place. I'm never outside of 500m from the target anyway!

Yeah Automatics is too good this edition. That rule about Sniper Rifles not being able to be used in a "running gunfight" without incurring penalties is pretty silly too. What the hell kind of unstable rifle and optics technology are they basing this off of? Some crazy kind of 1950s stuff? Hell, in modern day you can mount any decent combat scope to any decent long ranged rifle and beat someone to death with it without losing your zero. The whole concept is a little silly.

What does a guy have to do to get something like an M14? A solid semi-automatic rifle with a 20 round clip, respectable punch, solid killing power, and the ability to both kill a man at a kilometer and beat or bayonet another man to death in a short to mid range encounter. I haven't looked at WAR too much, but I don't think building a rifle like that is even possible in the current rules.

I think most people interpret the 'running gunfight' limitation as applying only to the specific models mentioned? Some certainly do, anyway.

But either way, you just rarely need 1500m of range, and ARs are just amazing all around. They 'make up' for this by giving 'sniper rifles' the ability to kill battle tanks, though. The DV/APs get insane. But I'm just talking normal game, normal play.

Yeah, sporting rifles (which War's battle rifles use) only go out to 750m (barrel extension, I guess, but that's a mere 825m). I mean, for mean that's close enough to what you want.

The 'running gunfight' stuff is mentioned under the general rules for Sniper Rifles (p. 319 SR4A).

Don't get me wrong, I really like that Automatics are good this edition. I really really love Automatic weapons, but the weapon group really is too versatile. To the point where it makes most other weapon skills look a little silly.

We don't play with WAR, but I enabled it in Chummer to see what you're getting on about. Looks like the AM-884 or HKG132w are close enough to what I would be looking for. I don't have any accompanying Fluff, but the base stats could be modded to do what I'm looking for I think.

Edit: Also, let me guess: Battle Rifles use Automatics instead of Longarms right?

Make sure to get a heavy turret on your helicopter and add a belt fed howitzer.

Enough drones and sensors to make a tacnet. ECM/ECCM to keep your communications and location secure. A Tower lighter-than-air drone with ruthenium coating can provide overwatch for the tacnet and deploy minidrones to increase coverage. Another drone or vehicle could have a mortar or missile launcher, for indirect fire via a cyberware laser designator. The drones could be outfitted with laser designators too. In a warzone you're looking at fighting things immune to even the largest caliber rifle round. Drones are also useful as distractions to obfuscate your position or draw enemies into your firing line. There's a drone (in arsenal) that is equipped with EW tech and sound/light emitters.

Eyes and ears. Get the image magnification mod, then you don't even need a scope on your rifle. Low light is a must, and thermographic will help you find heat sources such as enemy troops and vehicles. Enhanced hearing mods and selective sound filter will allow you to pinpoint enemies via sound and be aware of ambushes. An image link with a tacnet can be used creatively to great effect. Rules for firing through barriers suit the sniper rifle/assault cannon AP ratings, and if you have a drone or spotter telling you where to shoot, you ignore the blind fire modifier.

You'll want a ghillie suit and/or chameleon coating on your armour, and thermal dampening to hide you from thermographic sensors. For fluff reasons mainly, you should get the massaging liners added. There's also an armour mod that increases your commlink's signal range, which could be useful for operating drones in a large theater.

A skill no-one has mentioned is demolitions. Anti-personnel explosives can be laid in advance with sensor triggers to kill or disorient enemies. Drones could be rigged for kamikaze runs or self-destructs. FAB/Smoke grenades could be detonated to cover your escape.

Right, things sort of got semi solved. I'm ending up going with a Rigger, and likely taking a YNT Pushka Okne with whatever I can manage to stick on it. Not sure what I would actually want for qualities with it, though.

EDIT: How viable is a cheap-ish drone packed with as much high rating explosives as I can reasonably manage?

LTA

What?

Lighter than air - blimp tank.

Worth noting, this is a 4A Nerf.

Just undo it for your game, because it makes about as much sense as an assault rifle's smartlink going out of whack when not seated properly.

I wish I could make it a walker. Not terribly practical, but damned if it wouldn't be cool. Also, just noticed. This thing can be rolling about ~70 dice for damage soak. Easily.

Oh it is definitely a 4A thing, I recall it applied to only a single Sniper Rifle in 2nd. The one that could break down into a briefcase and be hastily put back together.

That sounds like the kind of a weapon that would get messed up in a melee.

And if I undo it for my game, that means my players get to take advantage of it. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone will return the favor for me

So what's the point of the weapon mod melee hardening, for non-sniper rifles? Are there rules for damaging weapons when you use them as a club?

It's just fluff.

You might also think outside the box instead of doing the Elf Sniper Commando build - having 8-12 attack dicepool is enough in most situations as long as you are the one doing the surprise attack so an extreme elf is often not needed, spread out your skills instead - Primary skill of 4 and a spec and 4-6 in attribute goes a long way.

Get restricted gear (Vehicles) and trick out a Dawnglider with ruthenium polymers and a pair of grapple arms (to grab hold on ledges for example). Add Assembly Time Improvement.
Now you have a stealthed vehicle that can get you from building to building and that you can fit inside a large suitcase in about 6 minutes.

If you take a rifle go with a a hunting rifle, if not for flavor at least for it to be harder to track, a black market civilian hunting weapon as compared to a very specific military weapon.
Also, shorten its barrel and give it a powered easy breakdown. A hunting rifle with a short barrel, built in silencer, range finder and smartgun link will still have a range of 0-600 meters with no hit penalty for range - It's not often you get firefights at more than a few hundred meters. Not to mention that the weapon is easily hidden in a small case.

For a secondary weapon i would go with a sawn off shotgun (Enfield AS-7 with drum) shorten the barrel and remove the stock on this one too and give it Ex-Ex for close quarter fighting, a very good weapon for close quarter fighting in buildings.