Huh. So I've been looking at the Lifting and Carrying rules in Shadowrun (SR4 130), and have run into something that puzzled me somewhat. If 6 Body and 6 Strength are the unaugmented human maximum... then the most any human can ever hope to lift over their heads is 90kg (rolling all hits on your STR + BOD test without the 6s-are-rolled-again optional rule). Which is less than half the Olympic weightlifting record. Heck, it's less than the lightweight women's record (source here).

It... just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

well. A LOT of the SR numbers don't make sense. Like the jogging (note: NOT Sprinting) speed of the Bod1 Str1 Infirm couch potatoe of 18.6 mph.
Apparently, following the authors' numbers here, within the next 50 years humans will undergo vast evolution and loose all arm muscle in favor of leg muscle.

The 90 kg. is without any kind of test. Presumably, an Olympic level effort would involve a STR + BOD Test on top of that, maybe even with Edge.

Does anyone have a link to that "What can Troll do?" SR Strength diagram?




-k

Yes, OP is talking about 'over head lift', which is much lower; go figure.

Right, pbangarth: 15kg * 6 Str = 90… + 15kg * hits (Str+Body) ('lift off the ground'). So that's average 135kg, max 180kg. This is near but still less than men's records, but presumably some of them have Exceptional Str/Body (=225kg, which is very nearly the records); still no Edge mentioned. This seems fair for a general system abstracted down to a simple linear method.

Sadly no. Honestly never heard of that diagram before.

But do also consider the VITAS plagues that hit in 2010 and 2022. First wave started (which killed about 25% of the global population) in India, and China's described as one of the worst hit. Noticed many of those weightlifters in the link are Chinese, and no reason to believe that Turkey, Iran, and others weren't hit just as hard. Those that were so physically fit could have been wiped out, thus denying future generations.

Then there's the Exceptional Attribute quality. GM's can bend the "Only Once" rule of it and let it be earned later. Makes a human's natural maximum Body & Strength be 7 for both.

And if it really matters to the GM, just add a new Athletics active skill called Weightlifting, linked to Strength, specializations including the different styles of professional weightlifting, and say it's skill rating is added to a character's Strength + Body test for lifting weight. Could also add a quality instead/in addition, like per 5 BP you can increase the weightlifting allowances by X kg.

I've seen it a few times, but I never remember to save a working link. :o

You mean Knasser's WWSD diagram? There's a link and some discussion in this thread, but unfortunately the link seem to be broken now...

-CJ

http://pavao.org/shadowrun/miscellany/WWSD.png

That's the only thing I could find on the net. Attributes are straight 7 with 4's in relevant skills.

I've got a copy of the larger version with the troll added, but no place to put it up to link. I'll happily email it to someone who can put it up to link.

Way ahead of you.

Also, Olympic weightlifters probably have "Exceptional Attribute: Strength" ... and maybe "Exceptional Attribute: Body". Which means they're working with 7's, not 6's.

You'll note, like I said earlier, that a 7 only increases the limit by 5kg (+5kg more if you roll a hit) for the 'over head' one (15/15 for the 'off the ground'). So that's not really a 'fix', if the OP was looking for one.

The WWSD+Troll appears to have used 'lift off ground' in place of 'lift over head' (which is like 1/3 as much by the rules)?

Can't be done, you can only have one "Exceptional Attribute" (SR4A page 91).

I remember seeing Knasser mention that he adjusted the lifting and carrying capacity per point for that diagram. It was the only thing used in the tests that wasn't RAW.

Yeh, Yerameyahu has it. I went by the 'over the head' rules, since that's what Olympic weightlifters have to do. Nasser's diagram is quite good, but aye- it seems to use the 'lift off the ground' rules, which is triple the weight of the over the head stuff. I will admit that I forgot to include the skill pools- assuming hoisting something would be an athletics check, no? Sorry, pretty much a complete newb to Shadowrun. Still only 110 kg, assuming you get nothing but hits on your roll. Make it 115 kg with the Exceptional Attribute (Body or Strength, doesn't matter that much). So... yeah. Still doesn't make a lot of sense :/

To be honest, I noticed this oddity when I realized that my 8 Body/6 Strength Troll Adept would have to do a STR/BOD test to do a chin-up >.<

Considering the size of a troll, and how weak a STR 6 troll is... I don't see the problem. Lots of people can't do chin-ups very well.

Oops... dyslexic moment >.<

That should be 8 STR/6 BOD. Fixing in previous post.

AFAIK, no. It's listed as an Attrib-Only test.