QUOTE (Midas @ Apr 25 2012, 10:04 AM)

Again, I am not sure what your point is. Karma is a metagame concept. You could say to a character "You can't spend your karma learning quantum physics; put your character on ice for 4 years while he earns his doctorate.", but where would be the fun in that?
You are right in that it should take a lot more effort to become professional level in quantum physics as shooting a gun; the game abstracts skills to make the karma "costs" the same. Feel free to create a house rule to change the karma costs for each skill if you want, but I really don't think it necessary.
And should a PC decide in their wisdom to spend their hard-earned cash and karma to buy theoretic physics tutorsofts and train themselves up to rank 3 in that skill, who are you or I to stop them? (Admittedly, for a rank of 4 or higher I would make my PCs go out and find a real teacher, but that's just the way I do things) ...
My point IS that it is a metagame subject. Karma has no equivalent to anything. The Karma costs for skills and attributes do not relate to how hard they are to learn/increase.
The thing is, you can have a very low brow sports knowledge skill, which can be learned in about 3-4 weeks or you can have a academic knowledge skill, which takes a lifetime. Both at the same Karma costs. This is due to the fact, that everything is compared to the avarage guy. The guy is good for up to 8 years of learning math but does not really need to know the name of a single football player.
QUOTE
You are right in that it should take a lot more effort to become professional level in quantum physics as shooting a gun; the game abstracts skills to make the karma "costs" the same. Feel free to create a house rule to change the karma costs for each skill if you want, but I really don't think it necessary.
Actually shooting is an active skill and physics is a knowledge skill....
But thats not my point.
The point is: As soon as you allow a free spirit to syphon Karma from NPCs he will have a field day. Even if NPCs just get 5 Karma a month, he could gather from 100 people 5 Karma a Year. Giving him 500 Karma a year, or around 10 Karma a week.
It does not matter if NPCs run around with 10000 unspend Karma points. (If PCs get to this region you just start new once)
The rules are not made to simulate the growing up of a runner from a street kid to an elderly. You get X Karma for a run, so you can do more challenging runs afterwards.
You could build a runner with 1500 Karma and give only 1 "thankyou"-Karma point for each run. It would be more of a "simulation". (If you do not have downtimes)
This whole traiding stuff for Karma, which free spirits can do due to the fluff, works as long as you ignore the details. (They are limited somehow, just do not ask...)
You could say they need the Karma in order to make their own experiances take hold. (So it would be no use for a free spirit to gain 10k Karma because he could only spend it the rate he makes own experiances. Or whatever. It does not matter, because NPC-free-spirits have the force, the attributes and the skills you give them)
An PC-free spirit would need those restrictions as rules or there is nothing to prevent him from initiating 10 times between two runs. (The meditation-technique also gives a very good idea on how long it will take him...)
Thats why I am with the fraction:
PC-free-spirits gain the same amount of Karma as everybody. No friendshippact restrictions and no additional pacts. (If you want, replace the friendshippact with the formula pact so there is a reason he gains Karma)
QUOTE
Neither of these cases seem particularly unbelievable to me. Admittedly, boosting attributes is karma-intensive, but I guess that is as it should be. As to your 700 karma high school graduate: I think you are talking out of your arse:
All attributes 1 - 3 (@25 karma x 8 attributes) = 200 karma
20 points of knowledge skills @ 1's and 2's (12 free) = 40 karma
60 points for skills (Athletics 1, Influence 1 for 20, another 40 karma for 10 skill points at 1's and 2's = 60 karma
So, I reckon you could build a generic rounded high school graduate for 300 karma or thereabouts ...
Depends on what a skill of 0 means and how "big" skills are... (And there are no free skills, thats a BP thing)
The thing is, it is really easy in the system to spend 100 Karma a year, without beeing ridiculous.
Get a drivers licence (Car and motorbike), go running for fun, do some workout, start learning a bit cooking and something aboute wines. And this all while you are in highschool, employed, university.
There is easy getting your strength, agility and body from 2 to 3 for 45 Karma. And so on. (Mayb even reaction for a total of 60)
The problem is to get from I do not know shit about a skill and I know some is easy. As is getting from strength 1 to 3, if you really work on it. But getting to 4 or 5 or even just holding 6 is hard work, which will probably take up most of your time. (Talking about Karma, thats not the case. Getting from 1-3 is as easy as getting from 4 to 5. )
Thats why there is a problem of gaining Karma rates. Your example are getting it the totally wrong way. The high level athlete would need much less Karma than the hobbyist. Because he needs most of his training (in reality) just to stay where he is. (He will probably never make it to running 6 or 7 or never pass strength 4)
So the hobbyiest will need around 50 to 100 Karma for his first year, depending on what he is doing on the side. The athlete can make due with about 20.
Thats my point. So the easy way is to give everybody some Karma per month, which shows their "potential" in order to use it, they need to train (If they gathered 100 Karma they can spent it going to the gym). Which is not a real problem for NPCs in general. But as soon as you introduce one free spirit, well... They just say: Do not train, give me some Karma and be forever young.
(The Karma you would save alone by not suffering the effects of aging...)
Edit: to became do... I got to many typos all over the place. Should probably check more carefully...