I was putting together a group of NPCs based on Rifleman's "Welcome To The New Age: The Synthetic" and came up against a small realization that I wanted to run by the community.
The NPCs are "synthetics", wimp-womb grown clones raised to be the next batch of corporate peons (example background done to show my players here). Now I'm dusting that example background off and making an actual NPC runner group because someone decided to take them as a contact and I went "sure!"
And mid-way through the creation process, I realized that it's been said that the "Human Resources" department takes a very long view in Shadowrun. So, my logic train went, if they take the very long view, why would they make human clones, which are only good for 40-odd years of work unless they're willing to invest in revitalization and Leonization, when they could just as easily clone dwarves or elves, which are good for a century-plus of labor instead?
But at the same time, a counter-argument presented itself; these are clones, and most people aren't that comfortable around them. Would a Human Resources department actually be willing to risk creating a clone that could rise to a senior management position on accrued seniority? That could significantly hurt morale among natural-born if and when it happened, which is also Human Resource's purview.
Thoughts?
Full Version: The Corporate (Meta)Human Resources Department
This all assumes that the average wage slave can pick out a clone from a line-up of real dudes. I don't know too much about clones, but you can mix-n-match features when you test-tube them, so there shouldn't be any reason that Joe Sunday would cry foul on his company for creating clones to replace him. But, if we're talking about higher up execs, then we have to look at their need-to-know information. And I'm pretty sure all corps will agree, putting a clone within arms-reach of even a small VP position would ruin their own interests. No exec is going to authorize a cloning plan that would allow a clone to rise to the same position level as them, or over.
And, hell, HR doesn't even need to know about this. Sure, in the long run people might get suspicious of the influx of dwarf and elf co-workers, but Corp propaganda does wonders. Tell your minions that it's an out-reach program. Tell them that you're getting tax cuts for letting in meta-humans. And put those clones in positions that have a glass ceiling. Clone #4692-A might have a chance at becoming the next Albert Eisenstein, but there's not much he can do when he's mucking out the sewers or delivering packages.
The bigger problem you're going to get is clones that don't want to be clones, or clones that think they should have their own meta-human rights like everyone else. Let's face it, clones are the property of the corp that creates them more-so then wages-slaves are now. They are, literally, the physical property of the company. The company's dime paid for their genetic information, their DNA sequencing, their green birthing tube, even the proteins that make up their hair. They own that clone the same as they own any product that rolls out their door. And that's going to get real scary for a clone that knows they are a clone. Or figures it out.
And, hell, HR doesn't even need to know about this. Sure, in the long run people might get suspicious of the influx of dwarf and elf co-workers, but Corp propaganda does wonders. Tell your minions that it's an out-reach program. Tell them that you're getting tax cuts for letting in meta-humans. And put those clones in positions that have a glass ceiling. Clone #4692-A might have a chance at becoming the next Albert Eisenstein, but there's not much he can do when he's mucking out the sewers or delivering packages.
The bigger problem you're going to get is clones that don't want to be clones, or clones that think they should have their own meta-human rights like everyone else. Let's face it, clones are the property of the corp that creates them more-so then wages-slaves are now. They are, literally, the physical property of the company. The company's dime paid for their genetic information, their DNA sequencing, their green birthing tube, even the proteins that make up their hair. They own that clone the same as they own any product that rolls out their door. And that's going to get real scary for a clone that knows they are a clone. Or figures it out.
Even though they're vat-grown, they're still going to benefit from the same sorts of incentive structures as in-vivo-gestated humans. As such, the corporation would likely enact some sort of "claw-your-way-to-the-top" promotion scheme, even if the promotion was extremely unlikely (1/100 odds or worse) and the actual authority was largely illusory (middle manager in charge of keeping the rest of the clones in line.) This is essentially what they do with wage slaves anyway (out of the thousands of new hires, how many are going to get promoted to management? That's why you have to keep working those 80-hour weeks and churning out quality work product!)
I disagree that clones would be any more the property of the corporation than a normal wage-slave. I would imagine that any Corp Court policies that apply to in-vivo-gestated humans would apply equally to in-vitro-gestated humans. The advantages of in-vitros would be that there would be no competing parental rights to contend with in terms of early socialization and training, as well as the ability to optimize the clones for particular tasks. Once they reached the age of majority, the corp would no longer have parental authority over them (although would likely sign them up for a lifetime employment contract on their 18th (or 16th or whatever the Corp Court says is the lowest age for child workers) birthday. Which of course is the biggest day of their lives, as they've been told since they were weaned from the stainless steel teat and handed off to their broodmatron.
I disagree that clones would be any more the property of the corporation than a normal wage-slave. I would imagine that any Corp Court policies that apply to in-vivo-gestated humans would apply equally to in-vitro-gestated humans. The advantages of in-vitros would be that there would be no competing parental rights to contend with in terms of early socialization and training, as well as the ability to optimize the clones for particular tasks. Once they reached the age of majority, the corp would no longer have parental authority over them (although would likely sign them up for a lifetime employment contract on their 18th (or 16th or whatever the Corp Court says is the lowest age for child workers) birthday. Which of course is the biggest day of their lives, as they've been told since they were weaned from the stainless steel teat and handed off to their broodmatron.
If you're going for flipping burgers or chain assembly level jobs, there's absolutely zero point in bothering with clones - there's plenty of unemployed guys and gals out there that can be outiffted with a skillwire and soem minor surveillance hardware to make sure they're not doing somehting they shouldn't for a fraction of the cost of a clone. With the continuing progress of drones and expert system even them are likely to be phased out. Drones have the extra advantage that they're just as quick and accurate at the end of a 16-hours shift than at the beggining.
Even in the flesh trade, biosculpting and personachips will be cheaper than clones - especially if you're bypassing the whole education phase.
One of the few areas where cloning might make sense would be to get researchers or the like, with a thorough indoctrination ind in-house education, to use on the sort of top secret and/or thorougly nasty programms where a 'normal' scientist migh be not loyal and amoral enough to go through.
Even in the flesh trade, biosculpting and personachips will be cheaper than clones - especially if you're bypassing the whole education phase.
One of the few areas where cloning might make sense would be to get researchers or the like, with a thorough indoctrination ind in-house education, to use on the sort of top secret and/or thorougly nasty programms where a 'normal' scientist migh be not loyal and amoral enough to go through.
Not having read the lastest SR stuff on cloning- can you clone Elf's and Dwarves? Doesn't 'the magic' muck it up somehow?
If not then can you clone the short lifespan from Orc and Trolls and breed a serious army of Corp loyal muscle?
If not then can you clone the short lifespan from Orc and Trolls and breed a serious army of Corp loyal muscle?
Well, how dark do we want to take this. How nicely do you think they're treat flash clones as opposed to long-term clones? Clones that can be grown to adulthood in a few months or years...are they even people? I think there's a lot of ethical questions that go into this one, but they are much easier to check thanks to Mana and magic. Check a clone's body...do they have an aura? Are they visible at all on the astral plane? Can a clone ever have the ability to utilize Mana like a mage or adept can? If you answer no to those, then what makes them a person. Because otherwise, they are an object that's made up of organic material and chemical reactions.
But if we're not talking really dark dystopian science here, then maybe you could hold them to the same standards and benefits that normal wage slaves are. At that point, I see no reason to even point out that they're clones. You're right, they're little more then vitro-babies, which I'm sure there are a ton of by 2070.
But if we're not talking really dark dystopian science here, then maybe you could hold them to the same standards and benefits that normal wage slaves are. At that point, I see no reason to even point out that they're clones. You're right, they're little more then vitro-babies, which I'm sure there are a ton of by 2070.
well, for my NPCs, here's the example background I came up with (cribbing generously from Rifleman's Synthetic for tone):
So, ultimately, my original goal is the basic question of which metatype is appropriate for the Quinn brothers, human, elf or dwarf, given their origin as engineered corpers? And then into a larger discussion of corporate attitudes on cloning and metatype, which has already started, it seems.
QUOTE
J-KQN, Jack Quinn, The Synthetic
Stage 1: Background: The Corp Is Mother, The Corp Is Father
Family. You say that word, and most people think of parents, sibs, or even just your crew down on 79th Street and Mackinaw. Not me. For me, "Family" was Novatech and my two dozen identical brothers. The lot of us, genegineered in the vat, were to be the next wave of loyal corp peons and managers, classified as "Post-fetal Experimental Tissue Cultures, Model KQN," the pet project of Wilson Versaw, an upper mid-level peon who couldn't have been prouder if we had been his own flesh and blood. We weren't, thank goodness. Instead, "the KQN geneotype has been custom-designed and augmented from a Clean-Gene Type-Owen cell line to provide a superior intellect in the phenotype. In addition, by beginning from the cultured Type-Owen cell line, further bioware upgrades can be implanted with minimal systemic disruption."
Goal: I'm More Than Just A Made-To-Order "Tissue Culture"
Stage 2: Rising Action: Quality Control
But, hard as they try, loyalty isn't something you can program into the genes. Not yet, anyway. So they programmed our heads instead. Indoctrination along with the wetware, education alongside the hardware, as we were molded into fitting the pattern they desired out of us. We learned to walk, talk, eat, sleep and shit the Company Line, the chosen ones, the golden boys. Most people stay up at night wondering what the hell they're here for. We didn't wonder: we knew. And to our narrow vision, it was presented as the ultimate, the pinnacle. On the downside, though, only excellence was allowed; we had to stay within "acceptable parameters" and "project guidelines" and "proper sociological conditioning" or there would be hell to pay. And the tests, oh, the testing. Everything from growth rate to IQ to blood testing… Even with RFID-tagged sensors, we still got tested so much that it was almost funny, looking back on it, like we were some objects on an assembly line, being put through quality control. Almost.
Goal: Charting My Own Path, Making My Own Way.
Stage 3: Moment of Crisis: Two Weeks Notice
Guest Star: Z-KQN, Zachary "Zack" Quinn
Everyone thinks we’re special. That someone like me, created in a tube and designed from the ground up, can’t end up here in the shadows. Given what they say, you’d think that from the day we’re born we get treated like kings, given the finest education and the best day care with only the company for parents. A special project like that doesn’t get canceled, they say.
But what happens, chum, when those special projects do get shut down? Or what happens when a corporation has about two dozen of me who have been specially trained for a task that doesn’t even exist anymore? The lucky ones get reassigned to different projects or adopted by families. Others like me and my brothers have to hit the ground running.
My 'brother', Z-KQN, Zack, was goofing off and hacking the system, just to see if he could. He could. And found some memos. Due to "inadequate revenue streams" and "analytical financial heuristics" and other BS, they were going to be shutting down our project and sending us to a "processing center". Think about that for a second, when you know that your "geneotype design specifications" means that your entire body qualifies as Type-O grade organ donation materials. We couldn’t escape fast enough. But, first, we needed a plan. Luckily, we had been trained to make them.
Goal: Knowledge Is Power, And Ignorance Is Only Bliss If You Don't Know That You're Ignorant. I'd Rather Be Powerful And Sad Instead Of Happy And Dead.
Stage 4: Sidetracked: Excess Inventory
Guest Star: M-KQN, Mackenzie "Mack" Quinn
The funny thing about loyalty? It goes both ways. Betray the kids who have been told to worship you their entire lives, and you'll get back betrayal. With interest.
We started a little conspiracy. We had a few days, but we knew the system inside and out. We were part of that system. Who better to bring it down? Zack did a few judicious bits of hacking and embezzlement, and hired a shadowrunner team through the Matrix. But we didn't want to be under anyone's thumb. Not anymore. Just in case the runners decided that they would screw us over too. So they were hired to hit another part of the complex, and cause enough chaos to let us spring ourselves.
We wouldn't have had that option, though, if not for Mack, M-KQN. We might be clones, but we're not all alike. Mack is a wiz at drones, just as I'm a planner and Zack is a hacker. If not for Mack's hacked drones sending the complex into an uproar, we never would have made it out. Some of us didn't. Out of the twenty-six "KQN" clones, we all either escaped or died that night. I know that the others are out there, somewhere. And none of us would have made it at all, if not for Mack's drones and their cover fire. And, so, we slipped into the shadows.
Goal: Never Pass Up A Chance To Pilfer NeoNET's Goats.
Stage 5: Building The Team: Perspective Is A Matter Of Relativity
Guest Star: TB9, "Testbed-9", "Teabee"
We hit the ground running; between our training, skills and knowledge, with what we were taught, we were a natural at this. We grew up as part of the corporation, learned what the corporations wanted us to learn, and taught us how things worked. Who better to tear them apart?
A few months later, we were on a job--and visiting home, at the same time, you might say. We knew the security procedures in and out. I wouldn't say that it was a cakewalk, but we didn't kill anyone. Got in, got the paydata, wiped down the lab, did a few million nuyen in damage to cover up what our exact target was, and also picked up a souvenir.
A kid, just sitting there in the lab. Only he wasn't a kid. He wasn't even a future corp peon like we had been. No, he was a walking, talking experiment in nano-cybernetics, him and his entire creche, seeing what effect the nanites would have on "in-utero and post-fetal development." He called himself "TB-Niner," because that was what he was, "Testbed-Nine". We're calling him Brother. And, one day, we'll go back for the rest of them.
Goal: Now I Get To Choose My Family.
Stage 1: Background: The Corp Is Mother, The Corp Is Father
Family. You say that word, and most people think of parents, sibs, or even just your crew down on 79th Street and Mackinaw. Not me. For me, "Family" was Novatech and my two dozen identical brothers. The lot of us, genegineered in the vat, were to be the next wave of loyal corp peons and managers, classified as "Post-fetal Experimental Tissue Cultures, Model KQN," the pet project of Wilson Versaw, an upper mid-level peon who couldn't have been prouder if we had been his own flesh and blood. We weren't, thank goodness. Instead, "the KQN geneotype has been custom-designed and augmented from a Clean-Gene Type-Owen cell line to provide a superior intellect in the phenotype. In addition, by beginning from the cultured Type-Owen cell line, further bioware upgrades can be implanted with minimal systemic disruption."
Goal: I'm More Than Just A Made-To-Order "Tissue Culture"
Stage 2: Rising Action: Quality Control
But, hard as they try, loyalty isn't something you can program into the genes. Not yet, anyway. So they programmed our heads instead. Indoctrination along with the wetware, education alongside the hardware, as we were molded into fitting the pattern they desired out of us. We learned to walk, talk, eat, sleep and shit the Company Line, the chosen ones, the golden boys. Most people stay up at night wondering what the hell they're here for. We didn't wonder: we knew. And to our narrow vision, it was presented as the ultimate, the pinnacle. On the downside, though, only excellence was allowed; we had to stay within "acceptable parameters" and "project guidelines" and "proper sociological conditioning" or there would be hell to pay. And the tests, oh, the testing. Everything from growth rate to IQ to blood testing… Even with RFID-tagged sensors, we still got tested so much that it was almost funny, looking back on it, like we were some objects on an assembly line, being put through quality control. Almost.
Goal: Charting My Own Path, Making My Own Way.
Stage 3: Moment of Crisis: Two Weeks Notice
Guest Star: Z-KQN, Zachary "Zack" Quinn
Everyone thinks we’re special. That someone like me, created in a tube and designed from the ground up, can’t end up here in the shadows. Given what they say, you’d think that from the day we’re born we get treated like kings, given the finest education and the best day care with only the company for parents. A special project like that doesn’t get canceled, they say.
But what happens, chum, when those special projects do get shut down? Or what happens when a corporation has about two dozen of me who have been specially trained for a task that doesn’t even exist anymore? The lucky ones get reassigned to different projects or adopted by families. Others like me and my brothers have to hit the ground running.
My 'brother', Z-KQN, Zack, was goofing off and hacking the system, just to see if he could. He could. And found some memos. Due to "inadequate revenue streams" and "analytical financial heuristics" and other BS, they were going to be shutting down our project and sending us to a "processing center". Think about that for a second, when you know that your "geneotype design specifications" means that your entire body qualifies as Type-O grade organ donation materials. We couldn’t escape fast enough. But, first, we needed a plan. Luckily, we had been trained to make them.
Goal: Knowledge Is Power, And Ignorance Is Only Bliss If You Don't Know That You're Ignorant. I'd Rather Be Powerful And Sad Instead Of Happy And Dead.
Stage 4: Sidetracked: Excess Inventory
Guest Star: M-KQN, Mackenzie "Mack" Quinn
The funny thing about loyalty? It goes both ways. Betray the kids who have been told to worship you their entire lives, and you'll get back betrayal. With interest.
We started a little conspiracy. We had a few days, but we knew the system inside and out. We were part of that system. Who better to bring it down? Zack did a few judicious bits of hacking and embezzlement, and hired a shadowrunner team through the Matrix. But we didn't want to be under anyone's thumb. Not anymore. Just in case the runners decided that they would screw us over too. So they were hired to hit another part of the complex, and cause enough chaos to let us spring ourselves.
We wouldn't have had that option, though, if not for Mack, M-KQN. We might be clones, but we're not all alike. Mack is a wiz at drones, just as I'm a planner and Zack is a hacker. If not for Mack's hacked drones sending the complex into an uproar, we never would have made it out. Some of us didn't. Out of the twenty-six "KQN" clones, we all either escaped or died that night. I know that the others are out there, somewhere. And none of us would have made it at all, if not for Mack's drones and their cover fire. And, so, we slipped into the shadows.
Goal: Never Pass Up A Chance To Pilfer NeoNET's Goats.
Stage 5: Building The Team: Perspective Is A Matter Of Relativity
Guest Star: TB9, "Testbed-9", "Teabee"
We hit the ground running; between our training, skills and knowledge, with what we were taught, we were a natural at this. We grew up as part of the corporation, learned what the corporations wanted us to learn, and taught us how things worked. Who better to tear them apart?
A few months later, we were on a job--and visiting home, at the same time, you might say. We knew the security procedures in and out. I wouldn't say that it was a cakewalk, but we didn't kill anyone. Got in, got the paydata, wiped down the lab, did a few million nuyen in damage to cover up what our exact target was, and also picked up a souvenir.
A kid, just sitting there in the lab. Only he wasn't a kid. He wasn't even a future corp peon like we had been. No, he was a walking, talking experiment in nano-cybernetics, him and his entire creche, seeing what effect the nanites would have on "in-utero and post-fetal development." He called himself "TB-Niner," because that was what he was, "Testbed-Nine". We're calling him Brother. And, one day, we'll go back for the rest of them.
Goal: Now I Get To Choose My Family.
So, ultimately, my original goal is the basic question of which metatype is appropriate for the Quinn brothers, human, elf or dwarf, given their origin as engineered corpers? And then into a larger discussion of corporate attitudes on cloning and metatype, which has already started, it seems.
Probably human - they're the basemine and since the objective is brains, physical stats are an afterthought. Or to be a real bastard I'd pick ork. Just about every corporate product has built-in obsolescence (how are you going to sell stuff if it lasts à lifetime ?) and orks have it au naturel. You might even improve upon it with an extra 'suicide clock' to make sure you won't have to worry about paying either retirement or termination and they neatly die of general organ failure after 20 to 30 years of use. By that time their bioware and hardware will be quite obsolete and the costs will be amorticized, that's not a problem. And you'll have the replacement with up to date 'ware ready.
I'd stay away from elves - they last a veeery long time and will need significant refurbishing costs in the long run to stay SOTA (when you can just buy a new Imp(roved)Ork) and their natural charisma can lead to unwanted attachment form the project managers. You're shooting for big brains as researchers and advisors, you'd rather not want to prepare the new boss. On that angle, the ork's reduced charisma is a bonus.
I'd stay away from elves - they last a veeery long time and will need significant refurbishing costs in the long run to stay SOTA (when you can just buy a new Imp(roved)Ork) and their natural charisma can lead to unwanted attachment form the project managers. You're shooting for big brains as researchers and advisors, you'd rather not want to prepare the new boss. On that angle, the ork's reduced charisma is a bonus.
Which metatype is entirely up to you, but I too think of human as the baseline. As Manunancy said, given constant advances in gene-tech and clone-tech the "shelf-life" of such clones is finite. I also imagine that assuming the human metatype was used first in clone-tech, it would also be the most advanced and dependable form of the technology.
At the end of the day, humans are more common than any other metatype and a lot of humans probably feel slightly uncomfortable around other metas (prejudice, I know), so I think unless the corp has a particular reason to focus on other metatypes I imagine human would be the default clone metatype.
As to how extensive corp clone programmes are in SR, how dystopian do you want things to be? I guess the corp needs their next generation of workers, and the long working hours of wage slave couples might be a downer on romance, so it could be used to some extent to boost declining birthrate (and what loyal wageslavess would disrupt their work output with all that maternity and antenatal waste of productivity when the corp can take care of it all in a vat?). If you extrapolate reduced fertility rate trends to the 2070's, maybe many people can't have children naturally.
I do think the supersoldier trope of cyberpunk is a little overrated though - the Germans had problems breeding super-soldiers back in the 1940's, and I don't think the emotional problems of parentless boot camp life would ever really go away in the 2070's. I guess it wouldn't stop people trying every once in a while though, and I did dig that Virtual Realities story of kids grown up "living" on the matrix way back in SR1 ...
At the end of the day, humans are more common than any other metatype and a lot of humans probably feel slightly uncomfortable around other metas (prejudice, I know), so I think unless the corp has a particular reason to focus on other metatypes I imagine human would be the default clone metatype.
As to how extensive corp clone programmes are in SR, how dystopian do you want things to be? I guess the corp needs their next generation of workers, and the long working hours of wage slave couples might be a downer on romance, so it could be used to some extent to boost declining birthrate (and what loyal wageslavess would disrupt their work output with all that maternity and antenatal waste of productivity when the corp can take care of it all in a vat?). If you extrapolate reduced fertility rate trends to the 2070's, maybe many people can't have children naturally.
I do think the supersoldier trope of cyberpunk is a little overrated though - the Germans had problems breeding super-soldiers back in the 1940's, and I don't think the emotional problems of parentless boot camp life would ever really go away in the 2070's. I guess it wouldn't stop people trying every once in a while though, and I did dig that Virtual Realities story of kids grown up "living" on the matrix way back in SR1 ...
QUOTE (Midas @ Apr 26 2012, 08:20 AM) 
Which metatype is entirely up to you, but I too think of human as the baseline. As Manunancy said, given constant advances in gene-tech and clone-tech the "shelf-life" of such clones is finite. I also imagine that assuming the human metatype was used first in clone-tech, it would also be the most advanced and dependable form of the technology.
At the end of the day, humans are more common than any other metatype and a lot of humans probably feel slightly uncomfortable around other metas (prejudice, I know), so I think unless the corp has a particular reason to focus on other metatypes I imagine human would be the default clone metatype.
As to how extensive corp clone programmes are in SR, how dystopian do you want things to be? I guess the corp needs their next generation of workers, and the long working hours of wage slave couples might be a downer on romance, so it could be used to some extent to boost declining birthrate (and what loyal wageslavess would disrupt their work output with all that maternity and antenatal waste of productivity when the corp can take care of it all in a vat?). If you extrapolate reduced fertility rate trends to the 2070's, maybe many people can't have children naturally.
I do think the supersoldier trope of cyberpunk is a little overrated though - the Germans had problems breeding super-soldiers back in the 1940's, and I don't think the emotional problems of parentless boot camp life would ever really go away in the 2070's. I guess it wouldn't stop people trying every once in a while though, and I did dig that Virtual Realities story of kids grown up "living" on the matrix way back in SR1 ...
At the end of the day, humans are more common than any other metatype and a lot of humans probably feel slightly uncomfortable around other metas (prejudice, I know), so I think unless the corp has a particular reason to focus on other metatypes I imagine human would be the default clone metatype.
As to how extensive corp clone programmes are in SR, how dystopian do you want things to be? I guess the corp needs their next generation of workers, and the long working hours of wage slave couples might be a downer on romance, so it could be used to some extent to boost declining birthrate (and what loyal wageslavess would disrupt their work output with all that maternity and antenatal waste of productivity when the corp can take care of it all in a vat?). If you extrapolate reduced fertility rate trends to the 2070's, maybe many people can't have children naturally.
I do think the supersoldier trope of cyberpunk is a little overrated though - the Germans had problems breeding super-soldiers back in the 1940's, and I don't think the emotional problems of parentless boot camp life would ever really go away in the 2070's. I guess it wouldn't stop people trying every once in a while though, and I did dig that Virtual Realities story of kids grown up "living" on the matrix way back in SR1 ...
Yeah, I would use a variation on the culture of "the island" (movie from 2005, amusing and blends relatively well into ShadowRun). Type O also makes for an excellent consolation prize to the corp if any of them become problems. They would be cloned from their best and brightest to work in secure labs where they are "protected from the outside world" and encouraged to work on pressing problems to "rebuilding metahumanity". You could even end up with a nesting doll scenario where one batch of especially loyal clones are cleared to push the envelope on developing the next batch.
If you're feeling particularly nefarious, place it somewhere remote and inhospitable so any escaped clones see proof of the "devestated world" cover story.
If you're feeling very nefarious, add a "killswitch" to the researcher clone genetics (ala fainting goats aka combat paralysis or similar) since they were bred to be researchers not grunts. The grunts wouldn't have this, but they would have top-grade cranial bombs specifically designed to look like aneurysms or similar.
QUOTE (Ogrebear @ Apr 25 2012, 07:48 PM)
Not having read the lastest SR stuff on cloning- can you clone Elf's and Dwarves? Doesn't 'the magic' muck it up somehow?
Unfortunately, Ogrebear has a point here... Taking the Lore seriously, Metatype is not technically genetic... it's METAgenetic... meaning that yes, being Homo Sapiens comes from your genes, but being Homo Sapiens Nobilis comes from the Awakening. If a Corp were to learn to clone strictly Elves, te discussion on why a Troll and Elf can produce a Dwarf (or two Humans can produce a Troll, for that matter) would cease to be a discussion.
No... cloning a specific Metatype cannot be done purely through science.
Now then, if you magically "treat" a clone during development, like Dragons do to their eggs... hmm...
QUOTE (thepatriot @ Apr 30 2012, 05:42 AM)
Unfortunately, Ogrebear has a point here... Taking the Lore seriously, Metatype is not technically genetic... it's METAgenetic... meaning that yes, being Homo Sapiens comes from your genes, but being Homo Sapiens Nobilis comes from the Awakening. If a Corp were to learn to clone strictly Elves, te discussion on why a Troll and Elf can produce a Dwarf (or two Humans can produce a Troll, for that matter) would cease to be a discussion.
No... cloning a specific Metatype cannot be done purely through science.
Now then, if you magically "treat" a clone during development, like Dragons do to their eggs... hmm...
No... cloning a specific Metatype cannot be done purely through science.
Now then, if you magically "treat" a clone during development, like Dragons do to their eggs... hmm...
In my opinion you can clone a metatype - the metatype genes takes relatively little mabiant magic to work, which means that cloning an elf will almost alway get you an elf. Where it gets really unpredictable is when it comes to full awakening, and probably the more freaked-our metavariants and surge cases.
QUOTE (CrystalBlue @ Apr 25 2012, 07:58 PM)
Well, how dark do we want to take this. How nicely do you think they're treat flash clones as opposed to long-term clones? Clones that can be grown to adulthood in a few months or years...are they even people?
Fast-grown clones fail to develop a working brain, even Stirrup Interfaces do not work on them. That is the reason why DocWagon and others can legally grow clones for spare parts.
To the OP, I think the main question should be "why would corps clone prospective employees in the first place?" Wage slaves produce children all by themselves, and these children get the complete corporate upbringing -- corp nursery, corp kindergarten, corp school, corp after-school care (stay-at-home mom? Your contract says otherwise...), and if you show promise corp stipend for higher education.
Sure, most of the resulting "products" will not have an O-type system, but how much bioware does even a higher exec need?
You could also more easily perform selective breeding with in-vitro fertilization (although the gestation could then be in vivo I suppose, although this seems to additional concerns in terms of controlling environmental factors which may limit the degree to which offspring would live up to their genetic potential).
Just because two wage slaves want to breed doesn't mean that they would be optimal breeding partners. While a corp like Horizon might avoid this situation through more subtle methods like steering them toward more optimal pairings, other corporations might simply take genetic samples and engineer a more optimal next generation. Quite similar to what we've been doing with crop plants for the past 10,000 years.
Just because two wage slaves want to breed doesn't mean that they would be optimal breeding partners. While a corp like Horizon might avoid this situation through more subtle methods like steering them toward more optimal pairings, other corporations might simply take genetic samples and engineer a more optimal next generation. Quite similar to what we've been doing with crop plants for the past 10,000 years.
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