Anyone have any suggestions for a houserule to represent updating an older-tech item, such that Vintage, Obsolete, et can be removed, or maybe just have a reduced impact?

I'd advise against it. My personal opinion is quadruple the costs if the player insists.

Is a houserule really needed for Obsolete? I thought that just reduced the base device rating? I was working under the assumption that all you had to do was upgrade the individual attributes...

Vintage is a little tougher and actually requires work. Possibly create a modification like "Modernize", so that it reduces the weapon's slots...call it 1 or 2 slots with a really high threshold and Hardware or some other appropriate skill thrown in.

Most of the Vintage weapons are things which were designed and manufactured hundreds of years prior. What sorts of updating did you have in mind? Because most of these weapons quite simply were never designed to operate with modern tech, because it wasn't invented yet.

Sure, you could take an old Mosin Nagant rifle and replace the barrel, trigger mechanism, feed mechanism, and most of the vital components with modern versions that can take advantage of advances in recoil compensation or modern electronic systems, but at that point you've really just got the internals of a modern gun shoved into the exterior housing of the nagant.

The entire point of the vintage and obsolete weapons is for their utility qualities. Perhaps they're easier to find in some places, or perhaps they aren't chock full of micro-RFIDs mixed into the very composites of the gun itself, or perhaps people are going to underestimate such an ancient weapon, or perhaps you want a throwaway gun which will confound the police, or perhaps you just like the old-world aesthetic, or perhaps you're an actual collector, or perhaps you want to sell one to a collector, or perhaps you want to pretend to sell one to a collector so he let's his guard down, or whatever.

If you want a dedicated weapon, you're probably better off using a modern gun. If you want a situational gun, that's what vintage and obsoletes can often be used for.

~Umi

I don't like being punitive like that. And I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to, say, update the sensor and guidance electronics of an old Condor LDSD-23. It shouldn't be free, nor should it be easy. But it should at least be possible.






Yes, by 3 points. That can be absolutely ruinous. (Obsolescent is only a -1 modifier,a nd a lot easier to handle.)


Hmm. That'd be one way of handling Obsolete or Obsolescent, I guess.






Actually, you can do all that except the part abotu modern electronics. Vintage specifically precludes those ... so you couldn't modify it with, say, a smartlink.

You could use an External Smartlink Accessory, though.

And that's where my logic sits up and says "what the frag is up with THAT?"

If you can bolt one to the outside of a gun, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to drill some holes, and squeeze it INSIDE the gun (inside the muzzle shroud, for example).

Alternately, perhaps Vintage is meant to mean, you can't even mount he external smartlink? Which would then preclude simply putting on a modern Imaging Scope, on that there Mosin-Nagant. Which in turn, makes even LESS sense.

Mostly depends on concept, I would say.

Hell, you could attach a Smartlink Accessory to an old Hawken Rifle (I still prefer the Creedmore sight myself, ) if you wanted. And it would work just fine... The fact that the weapon is outdated by about 250 years makes no nevermind for most things. But yet, I would not allow you to make an internal variation of such without completely redesigning the weapon, which means it is no longer an outdated weapon.

Yeah, it can get pricey, depending on what you're working with and what you want the stats to be. Depending on what specifically you're doing, it can be worth it. Lone Star Strato-9 for instance: totally worth the extra cost for a game-breaking reinforced weapon mount with rotors.

I'm not being punitive I'm just pointing out that such modifications would be custom made, be very expensive and hard to get. In other words, why bother-when something is easier and cheaper brand new.

One thing to remember about smart links is beyond that handy +2 to shoot people, it also performs a host of other functions that require a connection to mechanical parts in the weapon, including: ejecting magazines (clips if you rather use the wrong term), counting ammunition, switching firing modes, swapping between silencer/sound suppressor and gas venting systems like on the Ingram Smartgun and some fluff things like barrel heating and range finding. Most of this means modern weapons must have the electronic controls for these mechanical actions the link can interface with. Older guns just won't have those features built in. There may even be room for them. I imagine modern weapons without smartlinks already have the controls built in since you can just order the weapon linked if you want (double cost) or attach an external link (400¥). So, no I'd say you couldn't even add external smartlinks to Obsolete weapons. For that matter, the rail system might be different, making it necessary to jury rig something to attach stuff like scopes.

For one, because some of the older drones provide capabilities not perfectly matched by newer ones.

For two, purely as a matter of style and/or nostalgia.






Pfff. I'll see your Strato-9, and raise you a Black Knight. Body fourteen drone, anyone? (I'm cnvinced that's a typo, and it should be 4 ... but ... RAW, it's a freakin' TANK, literally!)

They are an unmanned light tank they are supposed to have a body of 14 not 4.

At least with guns, the Vintage trait explicitly states an incompatibility with non-vintage electronics, and physical upgrades taking twice the nuyen. Incompatible has its own issues with current technology.

As for the Obsolescent/Obsolete deal with vehicles & drones, in the very least it looks like players could just spend the time & nuyen to upgrade them, but do remember that devices can have their stats upped by two at most. That M1A2 in the example, for example, could get to a device rating of 4 at most. Higher would be theoretically possible, but would be like completely ripping out the current electronics suite for something contemporary, and not only should be rather expensive but difficult to find someone willing to do it (assuming the players themselves aren't going to do the work).

^_^ That's actually what I'm trying to figure out a price, threshold, and kit/shop/facility requirement for. ^_^

Overmodding rules?

I don't like them, but... they could fit your picture.

There were Tachikomas in the earlier editions?!

Just a quick think up on this, but I'd probably do something like 0 slots, Threshold based on the higher of the Response or Signal attribute x2, Shop, Cost for the sum of Response & Signal x Body X 50% (minimum 200%) plus the System/Firewall at regular rates, Availability based on the highest custom commlink part, and special skill Hardware.

Not perfect, for sure, but at least it's a place to start.