Killing Hands adepts can engage targets on the astral.

Can they 'Blind Fire' against astral targets, using Magic Sense to get a general feeling that one is nearby?

Ref call

No, magic doesn't extend across planar boundaries.

If you're not assensing you're not dual natured, no magic sense.

You're not dual natured, so your killing hands don't extend into the astral either.

Also the rules have it that even if you did have an active weapon focus (dual natured), you can't engage in astral combat unless you're also astrally active. Rules are fairly cut and dried on that point.
If you're physical... astral combat is willpower + astral combat as well... (not unarmed + agility). In a pinch banishing + willpower.

Yeah, KH is very odd in that regard. You can use it in astral combat (like weapon foci), but it quite literally doesn't do anything. Normally, it lets you do Physical instead of Stun with unarmed. On the astral, you can do that anyways. ITNW doesn't apply on the astral either.

No, Killing hands is allowed because it allows you to piggyback things like critical strike/penetrating strike into astral combat. Killing hands itself doesn't do anything new... it's some of the enhancements which go along with it that work.


Not that there's that much astral armor out there... but next time I need someone to astral combat a dragon with mystic hardened 12... we know who to send in! The adept with penetrating 6/critical strike 6. Then he can get in one good hit before the dragon mulches him.

...assuming the dragon doesn't just Twist Fate to dodge the hit...

~Umi

Penetrating Strike can only go to 3.

Twist Fate is the biggest Mary Sue special snowflake rule next to the Prime Runner 4+ hits. I've yet to see the former in actual play.

Seen it once...

Street Magic, page 178: "The adept can sense magical activity on the same plane.." So, as Falconer says, if the adept isn't astrally active, he can't detect anything there, and so can't strike at it either.

It also says it will detect mana anomalies and astral forms.

Considering Joe Mook the Mundane can detect an astral being that passes through his body, it's perfectly logical that Magic Sense could detect the same at a further range, regardless of how an individual chooses to interpret RAW.

Damned Gremlins...

Magic sense only works on the plane it is activated on. It works just like the Detect Magic spell. The spell does not work across planes. If you want something that works across planes, get the Metamagic Technique of Sensing. Prettty sure that is what you are looking for.

And this is why my adept is a shifter. Dual natured FTW.

You do realize that being dual natured comes with its own set of issues, don't you? Namely, 80% of all astral beings will make you their *insert word for female dog*.

No one said it wasn't important to initiate ASAP Besides, ~1% of threats come from the astral, and 80% of 1% isn't that large of a number. It just becomes one of those situations where it pays to know how your GM is going to treat you. We share for the game with that character, so that helps even more since I'm less likely to screw my own character over (even though I have an episode in the works where I do just that, I'm my own worst enemy).

No to a normal person... maybe 1% of the threats come from the astral.

To someone who's always dual-natured EVEN WHILE ASLEEP AND HAS NO CONTROL OVER IT... they're a much bigger threat. Especially when it takes the form of an astral mage who can fly around astral and hammer you at will... and you can't reach back at him with your gravity earth bound form.

This just isn't a character you want with a vindictive or combative GM and not really a character anyone would want to bring to a first session with a new group. Among friends you've been gaming with for decades, however, it is a lot of fun. We're not looking to screw one another over, we're looking to craft an interesting story.

I generally see dual natured as a disadvantage, and a harsh one at that. Even ignoring astral forms owning you, there's the problem with wards...

Magic Sense is pretty specific in saying "The adept can sense magical activity on the same plane...". Dual-natured is generally a disadvantage - the advantage of being a shapeshifter or a ghoul adept is that they get to use their natural weapons in astral combat, so at least they don't have to learn the astral combat skill. They still have the "bringing a knife to a gun fight" problem against astrally projecting mages.