So I've been reading various SR4 books again recently, and given the filler text involving the various (in)famous runners sets the tone, etc. I was wondering if the small sections used in the books were ever formed into a cohesive narrative? Do things like Pucks disappearance and Netcats search for him turn up in any of the novels, or are those small sections all that exists?

They're really just handled in the Shadowtalk of the source/rule books.

It used to be that the Shadowtalk was filled with hundreds of different people, but for whatever reason they have consolidated it down to some small group, for metastory purposes I suppose. Whether you think that is good or bad is your opinion, but I personally don't like it.

To my knowledge, no one has ever pulled them out and tried to assemble them, if only because most of them are referencing a current topic, rather than a storyline. Stuff about Puck is rare, but does follow a gradual progression, for instance. Some of the Jackpointers care, some don't, while others might but have bigger things on their plate.

And if you're curious, one of the users on the official boards compiled together (and continues to compile) a resource of each individual Jackpoint / Shadowtalker and where they've said what. Might be useful if you're trying to track specific topics.

Good to know... I shall take a look at that myself. May be an interesting read.

Well, the other reason it's become a much smaller list is the old Shadowland board died in Crash 2.0, and JackPoint is a small invite-only discussion board. But yeah, in practical terms it was probably just to stop them from having to come up with lots of new runners.

Personally, I like the reduction in Shadowtalkers. It gives me more opportunity to pin down favorites or dislikes, instead of "Just a random guy on a message board", who I have no further attachment to.
Some old faces, some new, a few guest talkers, suits me just fine.
And over 60 members isn't too few, in my opinion.

For another list: http://www.christopherharp.com/shadowrun/j...intuserlist.pdf

I for one like this list, and the fact that it's a much tighter group. For some of us it's hard enough to come up with neat street names without happening to infringe upon a cannon character's name, and this list helps show which ones are the most frequently and currently used.

While I understand the ease in which as shorter list makes it to keep track of shadowfolk, I still miss the days of 2e and 3e shadowtalk posters. Sure, there were a million of them, but it lent the setting a really strong online presence; you could put any shadowtalk in any book up against screenshots of 4chan and it wouldn't look any different. And the in-jokes! And names! And the tangents by people like Harlequin and Orange Queen...

I also think the pendulum has swung the other way, and now we read too much about the folks on Jackpoint.

I agree. It is actually possible now to follow certain posters and get a feel for their expertise and personality, which means you can figure out just how useful the information they're offering up is. Plus, you still see random or uncommon posters here and there.

Any storyline that you follow in particular (Or hate in particular)?

Anybody you want to see more, or less, of?

(Clockwork doesn't count.)

I want to know who the hell thought spamming JackPoint with Horizon bullshit spam was a good idea. When FastJack says "I am going to kill someone" I reckon there's a better-than-average chance he means it literally.

When?

(I had a thing about that in Twilight Horizon, but that might not be the one you meant.)

Someone I know told me about it from one of the newer books. Was it Gun Heaven something or other? He quoted the line to me a while ago.

Also, FastJack getting angrier and angrier as he tries to watch a show LEGALLY! That was pure hilarity!

I like the fight between the two adept burglars, myself, with the discussion between low-tech and high-tech options for doing a job.

Ooooh, which book is that in/what's it about? Because that does sound like it's pure hilarity.

It's in Attitude.
But you can copy-paste a blog post about someone getting angry about trying to do it today and replace the names with Shadowrunny names and you'll get the same thing.

Yeah, that was not one of my favorite chapters in that book.

No specific plots, I prefer the random comments on things more than following what's happening with the JackPointers, mostly because it can be tough to keep up when they spread stuff around different books. I only read the books I need at the moment, so I tend to be out of chronological order.

I don't know about seeing more of her, but I always like to see when Frosty comments. After all, I (that is to say, the original character named Speed Wraith) had a hand in bringing her into the shadows...as well as many, many old-school fans who have been playing this game since it came out I always love to hear from Plan 9. I tend to read his posts in Richard Belzer's voice for some reason, I guess watching too much SVU. I'll also admit to being openly prejudiced against Hannibelle. It is really hard to hear some ghoul trying to justify her existence when she really needs to just be put down along with all the other parasites...

Bigot. I actually like hearing from Hannibelle because she tries to humanize a disease. Remember, even back in 3rd (and before, I think) there were pushes to help people from their condition. There's even a thing or two in D's will about it.

I openly admit I'm bigoted against the infected, and to be honest, I don't know why everyone isn't.

I can't say about 3rd edition, which I never played for some reason, but there were hints in 2nd that there were folks working on rights/cures/acceptance for those infected with HMHVV. Disgusting. I know they're sick and I know it (usually) isn't their fault, but that just doesn't matter to me. They freakin' eat people for food, that makes them top of the food chain and no metahuman should be accepting of such a thing.

For the first ghoul community to be legally recognized by the U.N. 2 million nuyen to help further tolerance of ghouls as a race, and to the first company to create an edible synthetic flesh for ghouls 2 million nuyen to develop a diverse and complete product line. (2nd Ed, Portfolio of a Dragon, pages 28 and 31 respectively.)

Assuming they are already dead, is it really any worse than eating other animals? Also, think of the benefits. They save room (smaller cemeteries) , cut down on funeral expenses(no need to pay for the burial) and are a natural enemy of the shedim(no bodies to possess). If they weren't so infectious, they would have a monopoly on the whole death industry.

My IC problems with ghouls have had less to do with their dietary requirements, and more to do with how many of them where feral when encountered, or -- of the PC variety -- used "you're just food to me, LOLOLOL" as an excuse to be total douchebags that inevitably (or immediately) forced inter-party violence.

There was a push, dev wise, to portray them less as walking XP bags and more as people. But when you look, smell and are infectious as a zombie....



You know thats the player talking. If not allowed to play a ghoul, that same player would just play a troll and be all "You're all just breeders to me,LOLOLOL" before opening up with an ingram white knight..

Yes, yes it is. Metahumanity has enough issues with other creatures taking the wind out of their sails without those things eating the remains of your loved ones on top of it. Not to mention that all too often their meals are still breathing. There are threats that (actual, factual) people can't deal with, such as dragons or monolithic corporations. Then there are threats that people can deal with. To ignore the things that can be dealt with is irresponsible.

BTW, I can't think of any of my characters that have ever had as much of a problem with ghouls and other HMHVV infected beasties out there as I as a player do...something about it just bothers me to my core

About that food chain thing, I should point out that predatory animals will stalk and kill humans for food if it becomes opportunistic to do so. This does not mean that they are above humans on the food chain.


And frankly, in Shadowrun, Metahumanity as a whole is and remains the dominant species in the Sixth World, Great Dragons be Damned. If Metahumanity decides to take their little blue ball of rock and water and go home, they can do so.

It would mean the collapse of civilization as we know it, but if it came down to a genuine knock-down, drag-out, no-holds-barred all-or-nothing battle to see which species comes out on top, it's going to be Metahumanity. It won't be pretty, and it will involve the vast majority of all life on Earth being extinguished, but it'll be metahumanity.

So just because ghouls chow down on the scraps we leave over when we die doesn't mean they're above us on the food chain. The ones who skulk at the edges can get by. The ones who actively start praying on metahumanity will find themselves confronted with a four-course lead buffet in short order, just like a lion that starts carting off kids in the night.

Here's my opinion - it's all well and good to be rabidly anti-ghoul until one of them ends up being someone you know, love, or work with.

It's easy to go, "ghoul!" and shoot them on sight, and it's another matter when that ghoul is your Mom who accidently touched the wrong thing at a hospital, or your sister who fell in with the wrong crowd, or just a buddy that ended up having to work a graveyard (heh) shift.

Or you end up in the situation a lot of folks found themselves in in Chicago, circa '57: live with the ghouls and have some protection, slug it out with the gangs, or end up a bug.

I'm not really comfortable with unilateral killing of folks who have a disease, in character or out (though I'll admit to being sympathetic; I still have to write up the ghoul spraypainter from Chicago named Bugb0mb).

Back to JackPointers, I like the fact that we have Kane starting to grow more of a personality.

Of course, if you're already a hardened criminal-for-hire used to doing cold things, they might just see it as the only mercy they have left to offer to load up the old shotgun and blow Mom's brains all over the wall, SnS sister down, roll her up in a tarp and take her out back behind the Barrens, and slip an explosive package under your buddy's bed.