Aaron Jackson. A man barely alive. They rebuilt him. They had the technology. Better. Stronger. Faster.
Yes, it's horribly cliched. Shades of RoboCop, the Six Million Dollar Man, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, probably others. Tin Man is an escapee from a super-soldier program. He doesn't really remember who he was before, what happened to him, or how he became more machine than man; all he really knows is that he's good with a gun and that doctors and medical equipment trigger horrific flashbacks.
Yes, I know he's missing some things, initiative enhancement high on the list. It turns out that four pimped-out alphaware cyberlimbs cost damn near the maximum allowable Resources investment. I justify it, fluffwise, by saying he escaped from the program before they finished installing his upgrades. Tin Man is a high-concept character, an indulgence of my love for cyberware.
Full Version: Tin Man
Don't you also need a cybertorso?
No, a customized limb goes up to racial maximum and then you can add +3 before needing the torso.
Seems like if you want the true potential max and the "shit sucks" outlook I'd definately go for the full cyberization and torso. Torso is the standard "mounting" for cyberlimbs I thought.
That's another avenue of advancement, but I couldn't afford it at chargen.
Don't go all out.
2 Legs, Torso and 1 Arm will be enough usually.
It leaves free both money and Essence for other stuff.
Or leave the Torso out again and go for Eyes and Ears too.
And if you want him to look like he's all machine, give him an obvious Dermal Sheath. Or, better yet, Dermal Sheath with Ruthenium and Ruthenium Polymere Coating for the Limbs too.
Go from normal looking to IronMan/Colossus in seconds!
Then don't forget insulation against electric damage, and give him some ware against toxins too.
What good does it do for him to be mostly immune to damage, if simple tear-gas or sleeping gas would put down an entire army of these?
2 Legs, Torso and 1 Arm will be enough usually.
It leaves free both money and Essence for other stuff.
Or leave the Torso out again and go for Eyes and Ears too.
And if you want him to look like he's all machine, give him an obvious Dermal Sheath. Or, better yet, Dermal Sheath with Ruthenium and Ruthenium Polymere Coating for the Limbs too.
Go from normal looking to IronMan/Colossus in seconds!
Then don't forget insulation against electric damage, and give him some ware against toxins too.
What good does it do for him to be mostly immune to damage, if simple tear-gas or sleeping gas would put down an entire army of these?
YouŽll need GM approval for breaking the rules anyway - Restricted Gear is required per implant - so ask for a "everything but the head"-cybersuite. Which you can then buy via Restricted Gear. (And make sure your GM knows the whole plan.)
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 3 2012, 02:58 PM) 
Don't go all out.
2 Legs, Torso and 1 Arm will be enough usually.
It leaves free both money and Essence for other stuff.
Or leave the Torso out again and go for Eyes and Ears too.
And if you want him to look like he's all machine, give him an obvious Dermal Sheath. Or, better yet, Dermal Sheath with Ruthenium and Ruthenium Polymere Coating for the Limbs too.
Go from normal looking to IronMan/Colossus in seconds!
Then don't forget insulation against electric damage, and give him some ware against toxins too.
What good does it do for him to be mostly immune to damage, if simple tear-gas or sleeping gas would put down an entire army of these?
2 Legs, Torso and 1 Arm will be enough usually.
It leaves free both money and Essence for other stuff.
Or leave the Torso out again and go for Eyes and Ears too.
And if you want him to look like he's all machine, give him an obvious Dermal Sheath. Or, better yet, Dermal Sheath with Ruthenium and Ruthenium Polymere Coating for the Limbs too.
Go from normal looking to IronMan/Colossus in seconds!
Then don't forget insulation against electric damage, and give him some ware against toxins too.
What good does it do for him to be mostly immune to damage, if simple tear-gas or sleeping gas would put down an entire army of these?
You forgot the penile implant.
No, i left it out on purpose.
It either takes up Essence or Capacity.
And isn't good for anything aside from detaching and leaving the part that could get really hurt at home . .
It either takes up Essence or Capacity.
And isn't good for anything aside from detaching and leaving the part that could get really hurt at home . .
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 3 2012, 03:48 PM)
No, i left it out on purpose.
It either takes up Essence or Capacity.
And isn't good for anything aside from detaching and leaving the part that could get really hurt at home . .
It either takes up Essence or Capacity.
And isn't good for anything aside from detaching and leaving the part that could get really hurt at home . .
Just put it on your forehead and pretend it's a unicorn horn.
Consider the "perception" skill; it's vital to survive in this game.
other than cyberware, what direction are you taking this character, and what arctype are you closest to? An obvious streetsam will take different limbs and upgrades than an infiltrator, but I am not sure what direction this is headed.
I am also assuming your GM will not allow, or you do not want, a full brain-in-jar true body replacement?
I am also assuming your GM will not allow, or you do not want, a full brain-in-jar true body replacement?
This seems to be a combat model.
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Jul 3 2012, 04:18 PM)
Consider the "perception" skill; it's vital to survive in this game.
See, I knew I was forgetting a skill.
QUOTE (Krishach @ Jul 3 2012, 06:54 PM)
other than cyberware, what direction are you taking this character, and what arctype are you closest to? An obvious streetsam will take different limbs and upgrades than an infiltrator, but I am not sure what direction this is headed.
I am also assuming your GM will not allow, or you do not want, a full brain-in-jar true body replacement?
I am also assuming your GM will not allow, or you do not want, a full brain-in-jar true body replacement?
Tin Man is, alas, just an exercise for now. I am the GM in my Shadowrun group. He, or someone like him, may show up as an NPC, though.
Personally I kinda wish full cyborgs were possible player options. It's just a pity that as they are now they're both disproportionately powerful and staggeringly short-lived due to all the psychological trauma. Maybe a toned down version could work? Probably not gonna happen officially, though.
On that note, I've written up a escaped clonal cyborg NPC for my runners to encounter. She's surprisingly sane, capable, and streetwise (considering). Normally growing up in a jar as a science project leaves a person rather... dysfunctional... The twist is the symbiotic relationship she developed with the rogue spirit of man who helped her escape from the lab that created her. Had to fudge things a wee bit to get her into the shape I want for the story (like allowing her to forgo her regular brain gel replacement by relying on a Nutrition spell to sustain herself via mana), but I'm pretty darn sure the team is gonna love the story options she opens up.
~Umi
On that note, I've written up a escaped clonal cyborg NPC for my runners to encounter. She's surprisingly sane, capable, and streetwise (considering). Normally growing up in a jar as a science project leaves a person rather... dysfunctional... The twist is the symbiotic relationship she developed with the rogue spirit of man who helped her escape from the lab that created her. Had to fudge things a wee bit to get her into the shape I want for the story (like allowing her to forgo her regular brain gel replacement by relying on a Nutrition spell to sustain herself via mana), but I'm pretty darn sure the team is gonna love the story options she opens up.
~Umi
What makes cyborgs so powerful?
There's been an epidemic of tin men PC for a time in a part of the French community.
Most players just decided that their full body replacement was a cybersuite they could take with "Restricted Gear"...
Most players just decided that their full body replacement was a cybersuite they could take with "Restricted Gear"...
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Jul 5 2012, 02:11 PM)
What makes cyborgs so powerful?
They use Vehicle Rules.
Technically, a Cyborg doing a Tackle on you would be Vehicle Ramming.
Yeah, immune to poison/disease/etc, immune to stun, ignore weapon DV less than their armor, immune to Mana spells, etc.
With the Redundant Equipment Manufacturing mod, you need at least 8 hits to even affect them with Physical direct spells. Targeting them with Indirect spells is a bit better, but most are likely to have pretty insane dodge and resistance dice pools as well.
The cyborgs in Ghost Cartels, for example, were rocking 23 Armor, 15 of which is Vehicular Armor, and had 7 Body. Unless you were getting a dozen or so NET hits after the defense rolls, they'd probably just soak any remaining incoming DV down to nothing.
Many will be getting 5 IPs - all their actions, virtual or meat-world, are considered Matrix Actions. Plus most Corp-fielded cyborgs are elite class hackers on top of all that, and tend to have massive support teams and backup. Almost all of them are corp-fielded.
And unlike cyberzombies, it's possible to have cyborgs that DON'T have all the crippling mental problems or short lifespan.
They're walking army battalions. The only saving grace for their opposition is that they don't actually get sent out too often. They are hellaciously expensive to create and maintain, so they tend to get reserved to the really, really important jobs.
-k
With the Redundant Equipment Manufacturing mod, you need at least 8 hits to even affect them with Physical direct spells. Targeting them with Indirect spells is a bit better, but most are likely to have pretty insane dodge and resistance dice pools as well.
The cyborgs in Ghost Cartels, for example, were rocking 23 Armor, 15 of which is Vehicular Armor, and had 7 Body. Unless you were getting a dozen or so NET hits after the defense rolls, they'd probably just soak any remaining incoming DV down to nothing.
Many will be getting 5 IPs - all their actions, virtual or meat-world, are considered Matrix Actions. Plus most Corp-fielded cyborgs are elite class hackers on top of all that, and tend to have massive support teams and backup. Almost all of them are corp-fielded.
And unlike cyberzombies, it's possible to have cyborgs that DON'T have all the crippling mental problems or short lifespan.
They're walking army battalions. The only saving grace for their opposition is that they don't actually get sent out too often. They are hellaciously expensive to create and maintain, so they tend to get reserved to the really, really important jobs.
-k
Technically, having only ONE BODY for the Jar-Head would be suicidal level stupid . .
Why do that, if you can have him plug into a Tank? or VTOL? Or Gunhead?
Why do that, if you can have him plug into a Tank? or VTOL? Or Gunhead?
Heck, it's not hard to do this as a cyborg-rigger too.
Imagine you get locked in a running gun battle against a killer cyborg, expending massive amounts of ammo, spells, and generally getting nine kinds of shit kicked out of you before your team finally takes it down.
Only to have a van door roll open and three more identical drone units step out.
-k
Imagine you get locked in a running gun battle against a killer cyborg, expending massive amounts of ammo, spells, and generally getting nine kinds of shit kicked out of you before your team finally takes it down.
Only to have a van door roll open and three more identical drone units step out.
-k
I think the point is that we want to have a Mostly cyberized (limbs, torso) person who is that way mainly against whether they want it or not... bourne identity/deus ex: HR/ etc.
IMO it's a cool idea and one that provides a good roleplay to explore without being to bad. Problem is that cyber limbs (Even basic stats) are expensive and sorta restricted.
I kinda agree on the cybersuite house rule also in lowering the price (since none of the cyber is gonna be particularly amazing) since your basically just getting artificial dmg cond for the cost.
IMO it's a cool idea and one that provides a good roleplay to explore without being to bad. Problem is that cyber limbs (Even basic stats) are expensive and sorta restricted.
I kinda agree on the cybersuite house rule also in lowering the price (since none of the cyber is gonna be particularly amazing) since your basically just getting artificial dmg cond for the cost.
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jul 5 2012, 09:26 AM)
Yeah, immune to poison/disease/etc, immune to stun, ignore weapon DV less than their armor, immune to Mana spells, etc.
With the Redundant Equipment Manufacturing mod, you need at least 8 hits to even affect them with Physical direct spells. Targeting them with Indirect spells is a bit better, but most are likely to have pretty insane dodge and resistance dice pools as well.
The cyborgs in Ghost Cartels, for example, were rocking 23 Armor, 15 of which is Vehicular Armor, and had 7 Body. Unless you were getting a dozen or so NET hits after the defense rolls, they'd probably just soak any remaining incoming DV down to nothing.
Many will be getting 5 IPs - all their actions, virtual or meat-world, are considered Matrix Actions. Plus most Corp-fielded cyborgs are elite class hackers on top of all that, and tend to have massive support teams and backup. Almost all of them are corp-fielded.
And unlike cyberzombies, it's possible to have cyborgs that DON'T have all the crippling mental problems or short lifespan.
They're walking army battalions. The only saving grace for their opposition is that they don't actually get sent out too often. They are hellaciously expensive to create and maintain, so they tend to get reserved to the really, really important jobs.
-k
With the Redundant Equipment Manufacturing mod, you need at least 8 hits to even affect them with Physical direct spells. Targeting them with Indirect spells is a bit better, but most are likely to have pretty insane dodge and resistance dice pools as well.
The cyborgs in Ghost Cartels, for example, were rocking 23 Armor, 15 of which is Vehicular Armor, and had 7 Body. Unless you were getting a dozen or so NET hits after the defense rolls, they'd probably just soak any remaining incoming DV down to nothing.
Many will be getting 5 IPs - all their actions, virtual or meat-world, are considered Matrix Actions. Plus most Corp-fielded cyborgs are elite class hackers on top of all that, and tend to have massive support teams and backup. Almost all of them are corp-fielded.
And unlike cyberzombies, it's possible to have cyborgs that DON'T have all the crippling mental problems or short lifespan.
They're walking army battalions. The only saving grace for their opposition is that they don't actually get sent out too often. They are hellaciously expensive to create and maintain, so they tend to get reserved to the really, really important jobs.
-k
Sounds like an OGRE!
Gotta play me some Ogre! when it is re-released later this year.
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jul 5 2012, 11:26 AM)
The cyborgs in Ghost Cartels, for example, were rocking 23 Armor, 15 of which is Vehicular Armor, and had 7 Body. Unless you were getting a dozen or so NET hits after the defense rolls, they'd probably just soak any remaining incoming DV down to nothing.
Sounds like a job for a Thunderstruck gauss rifle... only 8 armor then....
Or some sort of anti-vehicler weapon... you know, shaped charge missiles, high explosives, emp bomb.
Actually, Cyber is damn resistant against EMP.
There's a Table for it in the SR4 Book i think.
There's a Table for it in the SR4 Book i think.
fire, electricity, or best of all, lasers, but very little hurts them easily that runners pack on your average run.
How do these hurt them any better than the regular stuff? O.o
lasers halve armor. Impact armor, I believe. It tends to work well against hard targets. The other two do as well (if I recall correctly) but have other defenses that stack against them. It's why I take lasers on at least one drone every time I'm the rigger.
*shrug* They're also Forbidden, expensive, have low ammo capacity, and have fairly low DV (reduced more by range, and hope there's no smoke there). Against that 23 armor, for example, you need to beat 12… but your weapon has a base of 7 at best (6 at Medium range). That's not a small number of net hits. At least I guess your drones don't have to worry about the Exotic skill.
nope, and depending on the drone, they don't have to have the hand-held ones either. Cyborgs in the game with the GMs leaving no good options to deal with are a plot device or a bad GM, in my experience, so handy handy dandy cannons.
Realistically, though, the numbers being listed are severely optimized and customized cyborgs, representing a huge, huge, investment. Given that some end up going through this anyway, one could realistically encounter less powerful 'borgs (yes, I said it) for a balanced run. Else, plot device.
Realistically, though, the numbers being listed are severely optimized and customized cyborgs, representing a huge, huge, investment. Given that some end up going through this anyway, one could realistically encounter less powerful 'borgs (yes, I said it) for a balanced run. Else, plot device.
Even if you could fit the massive, emplaced, 'requires external power' laser on a drone, it's only slightly higher DV. You ignored all the points.
Yes, doom-borgs are not a normal concern. But saying any laser but the nuclear warship Mercury beats a gauss? Just silly.
Yes, doom-borgs are not a normal concern. But saying any laser but the nuclear warship Mercury beats a gauss? Just silly.
Does your limbs really have to be alphaware? Otherwise you could easily afford a bit of bioware including a rating 1 Synaptic Booster.
Gah, they never managed to make those rules fun. I think the shadowrun crew hates cyborg and robocop style characters.
Due to the heavy cost and extreme essence requirements we used the following rules for cyberlimbs.
Limbs attached to cybertorso took up 1/2 essence as it already used available connections on the torso and the torso becomes a good thing to have if you have heavy cyberlimb replacement.
Availability for all cyberware was dropped to around 4 as cyberlimbs are usualy damn common.
Prices were dropped to 1/2 normal since cyberlimb were supposed to be the poor mans replacement instead of luxury of cloning tech.
Attributes were equal to characters meat attributes and could only be upgraded to above normal meat attributes.
This at least gave the cyborg a chance to even get close to the lethality of a normal meat streetsam who used bio muscle enhancement and agility boosters.
Trust me, we went ballistic with charts and comparison when creating two 'equal' streetsams with money and points - the 'normal' streetsam were leagues ahead of the cyborg.
Due to the heavy cost and extreme essence requirements we used the following rules for cyberlimbs.
Limbs attached to cybertorso took up 1/2 essence as it already used available connections on the torso and the torso becomes a good thing to have if you have heavy cyberlimb replacement.
Availability for all cyberware was dropped to around 4 as cyberlimbs are usualy damn common.
Prices were dropped to 1/2 normal since cyberlimb were supposed to be the poor mans replacement instead of luxury of cloning tech.
Attributes were equal to characters meat attributes and could only be upgraded to above normal meat attributes.
This at least gave the cyborg a chance to even get close to the lethality of a normal meat streetsam who used bio muscle enhancement and agility boosters.
Trust me, we went ballistic with charts and comparison when creating two 'equal' streetsams with money and points - the 'normal' streetsam were leagues ahead of the cyborg.
Certainly creates an interesting character though. You essentially will have a skilled character with sub-par enhancements using sub-par stats (base stat cyberware).
Sounds like a dude who had cool shit, got stripped and sent out onto the street with crapware. Now put on some sunglasses and deal with it!
Sounds like a dude who had cool shit, got stripped and sent out onto the street with crapware. Now put on some sunglasses and deal with it!
QUOTE (zephraim @ Jul 20 2012, 07:52 AM)
Does your limbs really have to be alphaware? Otherwise you could easily afford a bit of bioware including a rating 1 Synaptic Booster.
If you want a full suite (all six "Limbs") then yes, you need Alphaware. *shrug*
No worries, though. You can make a good character in the Robocop Mold by doing so. I know that I did.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 20 2012, 10:47 PM)
If you want a full suite (all six "Limbs") then yes, you need Alphaware. *shrug*
No worries, though. You can make a good character in the Robocop Mold by doing so. I know that I did.
No worries, though. You can make a good character in the Robocop Mold by doing so. I know that I did.
I was referring to this specific character who only have arms and legs, not "robocops" in general. In this case alphaware seems overkill since he still has plenty of essence left even without it.
QUOTE (zephraim @ Jul 20 2012, 05:30 PM)
I was referring to this specific character who only have arms and legs, not "robocops" in general. In this case alphaware seems overkill since he still has plenty of essence left even without it.
Ahhh... Missed that little tidbit.
No Worries...
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