So I was futzing around in Chummer experimenting on a "Devil In Human Form" sort of character, replete with a red right hand (via Striking Skin Pigmentation), a magical focus on supernatural manipulation of others (via spells like Control Mood, Control Actions, Control Thoughts, Alter Memory, Influence, etc), and a silver snake tongue (via mixing Social and Intimidation), and I was considering the potential benefits of Nasty Vibe. The major problem is that for the character concept, I wanted to be able to switch between being a sly charmer one moment and a scary evil nasty dude the next, as situations warranted. Nasty Vibe on it's own doesn't seem to have an off-switch, though: you're always terrifying toward people around you, no matter what.

At that point I thought, "Well maybe I can just rely on regular intimidation bonuses for being frightening, and take Glamour instead for that otherworldy charm factor." Because let's face it, the entire schtick of demonic manipulation is the diabolical temptation - the deal with the devil. If you're just pure dark nasty evil all the time, no one is going to trust you. But if you mix in that inexplicable charm, that roguish quality that makes you want to trust someone despite the fact that you know they are dangerous and scheming, that infectious aura of cool confidence that inspires faith where doubt should lie... well...

But in looking over the entries for these qualities again, I noticed that they aren't expressly stated to be mutually exclusive. And wouldn't having them both be the perfect option for a devilish charmer?

What are other people's thoughts on having both? Would you be able to switch between "auras"? Perhaps at will, perhaps not? Maybe it changes based on your mood?

Say... you pour on the charm when approaching someone, your glamour making you seem instantly trustworthy and likeable, and you try to work them over and get what you want, but they're hesitant. You try a bit more charm, but they insist on refusing despite your wiles, so now you lose your patience and start giving them glimpses of the nasty side. Suddenly that winning smile is replaced for an instant with a sinister, dead-serious glare, your melodious voice is now just barely tinged with acid and venom, and they're taken aback. With any luck they get the hint and give you what you want, you turn the charm back on full and go on your way, leaving them confused but generally inclined to believe they must have imagined it, because you're just such a nice seeming person! ...or maybe they need more convincing and now you've dropped all pretense. The mask having fallen away, the mark is now recoiling from the demon that a second ago they were sure was an angel. They're unnerved, freaked out. Maybe they fight, maybe they run, maybe they collapse in tears and beg for you to spare them, either way you've got them under your thumb.

~Umi

Nothing wrong with the character concept, but this quality-combo is not designed for your needs. They are both (IIRC, AFB) automatic aspects that sometimes help and sometimes hinder. Your character, by contrast, has the ability to consciously affect how others feel in his presence so I think you would need a new quality entirely and it should probably be very expensive. The only way I can think of making this combo work in the way you want it to would require the Multiple Personalities Disorder quality and a truckload of GM goodwill.

An argument can be made for it, I guess. As you said, there's no hard rule saying you can't have both. I might rule it as you can't switch from using nasty vibe to glamour in the same encounter(my logic is that people wouldn't buy that you're angelic and fairy like after you'd nearly made them soil their pants)..

I'd say they just both happen at once. They do different things.

I'd been imagining it as more of a one-way thing. You could start nice, then turn sinister, but at that point the glamour is dispelled or warped. You end up in the Uncanny Valley, with the glamour trying and failing to make you look friendly despite the fact that you look like you're about to gut someone and wear their innards as a hat. Something like Galadriel being tempted by the One Ring, maybe.

~Umi

That's my take on it too. Basically, you're like one of the Sidhe Queens from "The Dresden Files".

How would you have that work, though? Glamour says that people will always treat you with "awe, deference, and kindness" so long as you don't act hostile, while Nasty Vibe makes them "feel an indefineable 'air of menace,' ill-at-ease, and oppressed". Those are two highly exclusive emotional states, no?

~Umi

Excellent description, Elfenlied. As a Dresden fan, I agree completely. Yerameyahu is correct, there is nothing contradictory about these qualities. There is nothing that says a badass can't seem trustworthy or likeable if they are peacefully dealing, nor would they all of a sudden not be a badass anymore. Enchanting if they are cordial with you, and terrifying if they are angry with you. Like my wife.

It would also work well with a "Carrot in one hand, stick in the other" dealings.

I'm entirely unfamiliar with The Dresden Files.

Again, could you explain how you would reconcile someone feeling oppressed and ill-at-ease with showing kindness to the source of said nastiness?

The only thing I can think of is someone absolutely scared shitless trying to bow and scrape and show false "kindness" as a form of debasing appeasement, like having a sadistic crime boss stroll into your kitchen during a family dinner and sit down acting like an old friend, pretending to be polite and civil while they're polishing a sawn-off shotgun and "asking" you to do a "favor" for them. And to me, that doesn't quite fit.

For one thing, not everyone would respond that way. A tough guy might return the challenge aggresively, or someone with an ace up their sleeve might play it cool. But each of these qualities is suggested as being supernatural, inexplicable, and not reliant on context or the personality of the target.

Perhaps I'm getting hung up on other aspects of the descriptions for the qualities, as well. Glamour says some people will see you as "angelic", while Nasty Vibe says some people will see you as "evil". How do those two things mix?

~Umi

I thought about the same combo for my SURGE character. I could think of one possible explanation: disturbingly sexy
Have you ever read the sandman comics, where Lucifer is featured? He still has that angelic appearance, but his sardonic smile makes him look really badass.

One word:

FEAR.

This.

Nasty vibe DOESN'T FORCE you to roll intimidation checks. It just helps with them.
I would point out it is also a POSITIVE quality.




Well. Basically. Angels are frickin awesome lordly beings of the heavens that fill people with reverence, awe, and a sense of the divine.
And they also scare the drek out of people if all that divinity is pissed off and aimed at YOU.

One can be both beautiful and terrifying at the same time. The phrase God-Fearing comes to mind.

You're now talking about rolling skills and declared dice. Don't confuse this with a positive quality which aids in rolls. These qualities dictate no ACTIONS. There would be no polishing of shotguns. You just described an intimidation CHECK (requiring a roll). The quality is more like a reputation.

What if your man in a suit had a reputation for dealing fairly with the honest, and double-crossers to him tend to die? This man is not threatening you: he is instead trying to deal with you cordially (negotiations roll). He is being polite, civil, and dealing openly. So you depend on his reputation for fair dealings and trust he will live to his end. You trust him more... Because of his reputation.

What if the SAME man accuses you of cheating him instead, and threatens you unless you come clean (Intimidation roll)? Again, no shotgun. But anyone with a lick of sense would be thinking REAL hard about the other reputation... That cheaters tend to go missing.

Udoshi is dead on.

What other people already said, Umidori. Awe and dread were originally the same emotion. I agree that kindness is a little trickier in *this* specific combination, but Glamour does exist alone, after all.

I think thats the nicest thing anyone has ever said about my posting here

I agree. Think of the traditional view of the seraphim. Otherworldly and charismatic, yet utterly terrifying. I once played around with the idea of a slightly nuts surgeling with that combo who thought he was a divine messenger....

aka: Someone you really want to be on the good side of...

As an example along these lines, how about the Joker from Batman:TAS, specifically the episode Joker's Favor

Charming yet pants-fillingly scary at the same time...

"All shall love me and despair..."




-k