Hi everyone!

I wanted to ask the dumpshock people how they build their characters!

Do you write the background story first and add stats and skills later fitting to the story?
Do you add stats etc. first and background story as short as possible?
Do you add fluff skills to your char? Or are they soulless murder machines?
How many skills does your typical PC have?
Any other skills except combat and infiltration?


I'm just wondering how other people do it!

Normally I start to think about shadowrun during the day or nighttime and suddenly I have a cool concept for a char. After that I start to play around with chummer chargen to see if it is possible. Then I try to polish the whole thing, min-maxing stats and skills and taking qualities according to the concept I have in my mind. Usually my chars are very combat oriented mages and because Magic is so BP intensive they usually fall short in anything other than magic, spellcasting, dodge, perception and a weapon skill. If they're lucky they get a group-skill 1 in influence or athletics. It's really hard for me to make a mage that is very good at spellcasting and is a viable char to play and between fluff skills and other such things that just cost BP but most of the time other players in my group have those skills way higher than I do!

So tell me, how do you start your path to character creation?

At the moment I play a crazy christian Priest mage with an ally spirit called "buddy jesus". Normally people like him end up in the crazy house but he started his own religion and bought a small church as his lifestyle home to spread the love. He's very very conservative about ... well anything except other christians. During our Campaign he got so badly wounded that he was totaly helpless and got accidently raped by a prostitute in our hideout. (She thought he's just drunk and wants sex, and he couldn't even talk anymore from too much damage.)
Now he kinda ... snapped and thinks that the world needs to be purified from evil and all sinners need to burn. But luckily he has enough willpower to resist that urge most of the time. Still we had many funny moments because of that

He started as a concept character and evolved during chargen and after playing him for almost a year now he evolved even more and is so much full of fluff and story. It's just hilarious
(Inititiation Ordeal failed, he cruzified himself but couldn't stand it and now he has spiritbane "wood spirits", he also drank waaaaaay too much prune alcohol and criticly failed the body resist test and wen't into an allergic shock and has since the negative quality severy allergy to prunes.... lol)

I've always been a fan of build to a concept, because that way you accept the restrictions the system puts on your character. Also lets you pick out your niche qualities and "concepts" for equipment with allowance for change.

I think starting with a concept or even with a full background story makes much more interesting chars instead of just "dice hoarding" during chargen

I've had this conversation with a number of people. There are three main things that go into a character: Crunch (the numbers), Concept, and Character. All three of these end up being built (even someone playing a soul-less murder machine has Character, just a shallow one); but generally speaking, out of necessity one must start with Concept. Concept and Character tend to go hand-in-hand, and the Crunch will follow. Generally speaking of myself, I start with Concept and move to Crunch, and as I build Character fills out (I'll build this character, and they like revolvers and shotguns, so I'll spec their pistols/longarms for that... I'll build this character and he likes only Ares products, so I'll also give him Firefight and a legal SIN...).

I usually start with a concept "I'd like to play a mundane character who does everything with special effects and mundane mind manipulation"
Then I think about how it could work both rulewise and fluffwise.
Then I use Chummer to get an idea of how to build the character.
Then I use all this to invent a detailed story.
Finally I update the character to fit the story.

I have no recipe. Sometimes it's this way, sometimes the other way around.
Usually though, I do have a concept, a hook, if you want to call it that way. This can mean how the character looks and what's his trick, why he's on the street and so on.
From there, I think about fitting stats and while I browse the skill lists and qualities, I flesh out the character.
Sometimes, at this point, I have a grasp of the character's background and I'll incorporate this into my skill and attribute choices, as well as the qualities.
When this is done, I may have some implants in mind which is where I look next.
After the implants comes equipment, more considerations about history and then, finally a vehicle. If it's a rigger, the vehicle comes first

I usually build my characters (as well as major NPCs) with 500BP, not much minmaxing involved, only a bit, if I need to fit to the frame. Of course, that involves background skills. I have a knife adept with 2 ranks in Pilot Aerospace and Pilot Aircraft, e.g.
Must have skills for me are the athletics group and perception. Everything else depends heavily on the concept. Normally, I pick up at least one melee combat skill and one ranged combat skill as well as infiltration and shadowing. Mages get assensing, of course

I advise people to start with their stats and let the background and personality and stuff flow during play. If you start with a "full background story" then there's a high chance of ending up with a mechanically useless character due to taking skills that are only very rarely useful in game, and the points spent on those skills take away from what could have been used to actually make the character useful to the team. On top of that, there is also the chance that after a while of taking that approach, one can begin to unconsciously support that "Stormwind Fallacy".

I generally start with a barebones concept in my head. I evaluate it and look at it from a few different angles.
Once I have the barebones down, I skin it with a minor amount of background. Essentially the highlights.

Then I get to creating the character.
Once I have stats, I refine the background and stats to match up to my expectations.

I have a few guidelines that I tend to adhere to.

1. I use the Descriptors for the Skills to set my proficiency. If I am a Professional, then I use Rank 3 Skills. RARELY do I have skills above 4 to start with, unless it is a key component of my concept.
2. EDGE Special Attribute. Though I know that many people argue for as much Edge as can be crammed into a character, I tend to go bare Minimum. Humans tend to be either 2 or 3. Metahumans are generally a 2. Only time I change this is if I expect the Character to be inordinately lucky.
3. Midline Magic 3-4, for the most part, unless concept demands that it be higher. Occasional 5's have happened in the past.
4. Large number of skills. I do this because many, if not most, concepts demand it. Want to be a Spec Ops guy, better have a lot of skills to pull it off.
5. I like 2 Passes.

Current Character is an unaugmented mercenary - No Ware, No Magic, Edge 2, 2nd Pass gained through Jazz.
Has ~50 Skills, counting Knowledges and Languages. Average Dice pools are 9 (main skills are 10-12, and secondary, tertiary Skills are 8-10). Interesting Character to play. He is competant, and capable of filling a variety of roles in a team.

I actually tend to do things pretty differently, in that I start with a fairly general idea (for example "I want to play a technomancer rigger"), then I build the character, then I outline a general personality/history in bullet point form and I keep it short. Then I let more develop during play, and add to the backstory/personality based on how that turns out.

I find that writing a long, detailed backstory before starting play tends to either lead to characters who have a finished story arc (whereas I prefer their main story arc to take place during the game), and also tends to lead to characters who go off in a wildly different direction than I previously planned.

1. I start with the concept of what I want to play ie Gunbunny Adept.
2. Build the core stat elements to the concept.
3. Develop the character's background and personality.
4. Develop the rest of the character's stat elements once the background and personality are known.

I prefer this method because the hopping between stats and character creates valuable stop points. At the end of Step 2, I have the framework for a functional character around a concept that would require minimal, if any, tweaking for a new character. This would work out to around 200-300BP spent depending on the concept. At the end of Step 3 I know if the character is one I want to play.

I tend to go for a concept first and develop a character around that concept, creating their personality and history THEN the stats and skills. I'm more of a roleplayer than a numbers gal.

I start with a basic character hook - It could be a fullblown concept, a personality trait, or even just a fun mental picture. I then build around that hook. The character as a whole often evolves during creation, but the central hook always remains the same.

Part of the build process involves implicitly answering a couple of questions:
- What makes this character who/what he is? (the Hook)
- Why does he look/act/work/think that way?
- How did this happen?
- What affects does this have on his life as a whole?

The only thing my characters have in common is that they are very rarely hyperspecialists. I can never have enough skills. A character who only does one or two things is dull, dull, dull. Even if his initial hook was fairly narrow.

Some example hooks which expanded into interesting characters:
The man who notices everything (and records it): The ViCaR
The Doomsday Preacher: Dr. Stop
The independent Cyborg: Dr. Sprocket, the madboy streetdoc of Pullayup
Guy on a unicycle with a laser cannon: Jinxie, african ghoul-hunting merc. (No-one said the hook had to be deep, or very serious).
Lets see what the fuss is about Troll-bows: Mountain, Salish Mafia enforcer.
Full-cyber replacement: Iron Neko, 4-foot artificial catgirl.
Humanis Member: Mack, Human poser Ork human supremicist.
Nearly indestructible: The Roach, fanatical neoanarchist paranoid nutcase.
Skateboarder: Goose, Punk Ganger and B&E man.

Start with a concept. Maybe some minor backstory.

Min-max the shit out of it.

Fill the details.





-k

Concept comes first, then I usually write down all the skills that would be fitting as well as cyberware/bioware/magic stuff (having a general idea about general equipment as well). Then I typically have WAAAY too much stuff written down and have to drop at least half of it.

Background is written last, but thought about during the rest of the character creation process.

Bye
Thanee

Concept, then tinkering with the NSRCG3.
And i usually have at least some kind of idea about the backstory, but usually i don't write it down.
Most of the character developes when i play him. See how he plays, see how the world reacts . . .

How much of the average idea involves MLP:FiM?

i TRY to limit myself with pony references, seeing how the only other bronies in my gaming group are one married pair that sometimes finds the time to play shadowrun with us . .

dartboard

Concept, some back story, pick out skills and such suitable to the concept and story and then tweak everything until I get something I like. I'll pick the negative qualities at least, to suit the back story, and usually equipment and skills as well. I try to leave enough hooks in the story for the GM to have things to throw my way in game. When I gm, I try to get my players to do the same. Adds a lot more to the game if your character has bits of his back story creeping into game play every so often.

Concept > create betabuild > characters goals > characters backstory > edit build > fail to convince GM to let me play it > back to 1

All well and good if it works for ya, but after stuff like that gets ignored after putting lots of time into it, ya get to where ya don't wanna do it no more.

I come up with a Concept - which could be rules-based, it could be background/fluff-based, or it could be a bit of both. For a few examples: "Parkour Adept"; "Artful Dodger-like young kid Infiltrator"; "Pacifist Pistoleer / Gunslinger".

Then, I'll fire up HeroLab, and play with the numbers to see if I can make something playable - while thinking of what sort of backstory I might like to put together, and what each element of that woudl mean in terms of Knowledge and Active skills.

Unless I'm building for a particular campaign, though, I tend to use a light touch where Background Story is concerned; I prefer each character to be more closely tailored for each GM and campaign, than they would be if I had fully-formed backstories before even knowing about the campaign itself.


Definitely add fluff skills.


Always more than combat/infiltration. Generally, if it makes sense for the character, some sort of "crafting" skill - including Artisan. (And yes, I can find a way to make some Artisan skills useful "on the job", too - a sketch artist with a good memory doesn't need a camera to scope out a location, after all.) I also like to have at least two ranks of Perception, always.

Number of skills is .... well, whatever makes the most sense for a character.

Like most, I start out with a concept or an idea. Then, I rough it out to see if it is a viable concept - some ideas flat out don't work the way you might envision them, in Shadowrun, while others require too many resources to pull off properly. Then, I used to do the stats and background simultaneously - now, though, I tend to do a more complete build, fitting the concept. The background is mostly afterwards, although usually the original concept includes a general idea how it will go. At this point, I still might make some tweaks to the stats. Ironically, the character is more likely to change during the mechanical side. As I fiddle around with skills and numbers, the concept can change. Maybe he's a knife guy, combination two-knife fighter and knife-thrower, but I add some palming and con, and suddenly he's a hustler from the big easy. Or maybe I give him artisan/woodcarving, then a bit of survival, and he mutates into an ex-Sioux wildcat.

I like working back and forth with the numbers and the story. The final product should have an organic feel - no glaring omissions (unless they are intentional ones) or inconsistencies. It should be a character that can actually function as part of the Shadowrun universe. I often take high skills, but they will be ones that make sense. In other words, my mage with spellcasting: 6 will be a hardbitten ex-wizganger or a former expediter for the Draco Foundation, rather than an academic mage fresh out of college or someone who has only recently awakened. I don't like writing a character from an already finished background - they just don't quite fit the numbers, to me. I like it better when they are both pliant, and I can mesh them together so they fit seamlessly.

For the most part, this is the way I do it as well. As a GM, if I use a back story element from a character as a plot hook, they get an extra point of karma for the run, which has amply encouraged my players to give me back story hooks I can use.

1) Start with the base Concept (which is basically choosing an archetype and figuring out what I want his special strength(s)/twist on the archetype to be, e.g. Mr. Lucky, wheelman and con artist).
2) Work out the broad strokes of the Background that suit the Concept (e.g. street punk vs rich kid SINner).
3) Stat out the Attributes and Special Attributes appropriately (e.g. high REA and Edge, low STR and WILL).
4) Assign +ve and -ve Qualities to fit/enhance the Concept and/or reflect the Background (e.g. First Impression, Lucky, Criminal SIN, Mod Addiction [Alcohol]).
5) Choose what skill(s) he/she will excel at, note down what other skills the character might have gained in his background. Add fluff skills I might want. (e.g. Pilot GV 6, Con 4, Intimidation 4, Pistols, Automatics, Perception, Stealth group, Electronics group)
6) Decide what 'ware and/or expensive equipment the Concept requires, and a wish list of other stuff I want. (e.g. Control Rig, Cybereyes, WR1, Chrysler-Nissan Patrol-1)
7) Choose what contacts the character Concept needs, perhaps add a few wish-list contacts they might want or that fit the Background. (e.g. Chop Shop owner, Go-gang Boss, Fixer, Socialite girl)
8 ) Tweak BP devoted to skills, cash and contacts until I have a 400BP character I am happy with.

I usually start with the character and build him they way I want him. Then I come up with a back story that explains how he got to where he is.

I've essentially operated along two major lines of thought:

1. Starting with a general concept of what the character is and what he does. This starting point has ranged from "Commando" to "Criminally Insane Murder Machine" to "Character and Party Transport all in One!" and working out the stats and elaborating the character's story from there.

2. Starting with an intent to optimize a character for a certain task, and then build story and supporting skills around there. I think my design for an invisible, power armored, Mono-Filament Whip wielding Pixie is still floating out there under the name "wasp" or somesuch. I had invented it for an online game either here or on the Something Awful boards, and the GM's response to it was "Kill it. Kill it with fire."

I tend to start with a personality.

Base personality determines methods of thinking. Methods of thinking tend to suggest one niche or skillset over others, even if it's contrary to ideal numbers. Determining method of thinking + roleplaying = bonus karma each run. Which trumps munchkin every time in the long run.

I then tweak dice numbers either higher or wider (broader skillbase) considering the needs of our team, the GM power level, house rules, etc, staying within the characters way of thinking as much as possible.

Example: my Beasthandler Mystic Adept believes power focuses by intent, and that formula, props, and other such are pure nonsense (self-centered character). If memory serves, that can somewhat suit Chaos Magic as well as Psionics. Psionics fit slightly better, and the dice pool for Psionics was more complementary to Handle/Train Animal. Had Chaos fit to a much greater degree, I likely would have dropped the animal handler aspect in its entirety and picked another sub-specialty, as a character with that type of thinking would be much more inclined to outright dominate animals, as opposed to training them.


I've got a pile of character concepts that started out as a personality, and finished with a great character. Except someone else covers that job entirely. Since we had other holes to fill, I made another, and have a backup or alt character handy when needed.

Talk to the other players, figure out what everyone is thinking about.

Come up with a concept as to what the character does (mage, shooter adept, etc) that fits with what everyone else is doing.

Build the character to be effective, save some points for polishing.

Build an interesting background for the character and use the saved points to add those skills. I'll admit I never did use drive submarine (minisubs), but I did use the diving skill of my ex-IJN combat swimmer, and it wasn't that many points.

1: Read through the rulebooks
2: Think on what the "team" needs.
3: Fire up NSRCG.
4: Massage the numbers until they cry.
5: Use those sweet tears to water the evil chaos that is my typical thought process
6: Background to suit.
7: Print.

-Tir

You Sir, you made my day

sounds like me, but i did not dare write it out like that . . .