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Jason Farlander
"Quick" question concerning a new magical deal I'm introducing in a campaign I'm in the process of generating - should the following abilities be part of a new (NPC-Only) tradition or a new metamagic technique?

Shadow mage/Shadow magic Abilities:

1) Summon "Shadow elementals." Shadow elementals are spirits that are identical to brocken bows (pg 24, Critters) except they arent free and lack access to the permanent essence drain power. They are summoned in the same manner as normal elementals and can perform the same services - for purposes of relevant services, they are linked to illusion and (non-elemental) manipulation spells. Great Form shadow elementals do not roll to determine which powers they possess.

2) Shadow free spirits will not attack a shadow mage unless provoked through hostile actions on the part of the shadow mage.

3) A Shadow mage can demand that any shadow free spirit of whose presence the mage is aware manifest and/or listen to what the shadow mage has to say. The spirit is under no obligation to respond, but can not leave until the shadow mage is finished speaking.

4) A shadow mage can bind (though in a limited way) a shadow free spirit or brocken bow without knowing the spirit's true name. This requires a banishing test against a spirit the shadow mage as commanded to manifest. If the shadow mage is successful, the free spirit is not disrupted - rather, it owes the shadow mage a single service AND can not take revenge agains the mage for the binding. If the attempt fails, the shadow mage must perform a single service for the spirit.

Note: Grr... I just typed out a significantly longer version of this whole thing once - and, due to what i guess is some sort of weird unpredictable touchpad function I really wish I could deactivate, my browser shot back to the previous page. When I tried to go forward again the whole thing was deleted. Just Know that I have thought of plenty of background and fluff-type information for these powers, even if you'll never get to read them.

Other note: I am not interested in whether or not you think these powers are "munchkin" or anything related. If you have any ideas of additional powers or modifications to these powers that fit in with the general idea, I *would* be interested in those.
Austere Emancipator
I'd go with a tradition, because the in-game effects are so, what's that word, arrggghh, from a wide area. Also, the whole thing just feels like more of a "life path" than a small thing you can learn.

I thought about making a bad crack about D&D, but I'll save it for now. What would Shadow Elemental Manipulation spells look like?
Zazen
Yeah, definitely a tradition.
Jason Farlander
Shadow Elemental Manipulation spells would do cold damage with a secondary effect of darkening the area of effect, imposing visibility penalties. They would look like a mass of shifting gloom.

I suppose I should mention *why* I had any trouble deciding in the first place: I want this to be something a *normal* hermetic could become, and there are no rules for changing your tradition.

The power behind the shadow mages is a Powerful Malevolent Free Spirit/Horror, though one that is finds itself in some rather unique circumstances that allows it to interact with the 6th world in a limited way. This entity would either function as a sort of strange hermetic totem (In which case, in addition to the above advantages, I would throw in a +1 die to illusion/non-elemental manipulation, -1 die health/detection) or as the initiation avatar.

Anyway... assuming I go with the "tradition" angle, does anyone have any suggestions as to how, mechanically, a spellcaster might change his or her tradition?
A Clockwork Lime
Have you read Threats 2? There have a "powerful malevolent free spirit/horror" in there that's luring burnt-out mages into its influence by teaching them how to regain their magic. In doing so, its flavoring it with its own dark style and tradition.

If you really have your heart set on it, try and come up with something similar for your shadow magic idea. That'll allow traditional magicians to "become" one without it just being some easy metamagic technique anyone could pick up.
Jason Farlander
I do own Threats 2, but theres a different sort of thing going on here. While the Aleph society (or whatever its called) is very open about what they do, this group is much more secretive - the only mages that would know of their existence would be those within the group itself. Additionally, the entity behind the shadow mages wouldnt be quite so direct in sharing power as to form a spirit pact with its followers.

Going with the tradition idea, finding out about the group would be a similar thing to being chosen by a totem. The entity would choose people and entice them into its service through dreams/visions/etc. Gaining the powers as a result of initiation into the group would be the result of being specifically monitored and chosen by the existing group members.

As a note, the metamagic wouldnt be easy to pick up - it could only be gained through initiation with this particular avatar.
blakkie
So why is it NPC only? Please note that this question is driven by my philosophical bent that has general disdain for anything NPC-only, especially when it applies to metahumans and is abitrary. Sure a bug shaman would be -extremely- hard to play within a non-bug group. But that difficulty isn't exactly abitrary, nor does it make it impossible to play one at least in the shortterm.
Jason Farlander
For the purposes of my game, it would be NPC-only as a tradition for the following reasons:

1) I do not want it to be available to starting characters

a. The abilities grant more power to a starting character than other magical
traditions

b. The shadow mages will be the primary antagonist in my campaign, and I do
not want the players to know about them until later (they are a secretive
group)

2) There is no mechanic to switch traditions mid-game

3) If the runners successfully complete the campaign, the shadow mages shouldn't
exist anymore.

If someone wants to propose a solution to reason #2, I'm interested. I just dont feel like trying to come up with one on my own.
blakkie
Hmm, well the player not knowing about the tradition in question in this case makes sense from a metagame standpoint (please note i don't automatically assume "metagame"==Berry Berry Bad™). Your adventure plot would seem to hang on this, given 1) b).

Now on 1) a), perhaps if you make some of the stronger powers into a tradition specific Metamagic. For 2), shamans can change totems. It is a personality and life changing occurance. That is sort of what the Aleph Society does. It is exactly what Toxic shamans do. But the canon definately skimps on providing any rules for it.

Whatever is behind these shadow mages would be powerful, no? And not unlike a totem? It would be a massively live altering process to change, likely costing old initiate Grades and at least some of the associated benifits. It may also require a bit of hand waving magic theory mumbo-jumbo.

Of course 3) would put a crimp in things in PC shadow mages in your campaign, -if- your players succeeds.
Moonstone Spider
In general in Shadowrun Spirit = Tradition. All magicians cast spells in exactly the same way (Aside from bonus/minus die for certain types) but each tradition has an entirely different set of available spirits. Thus if it has a new spirit type, I'd call it a new tradition.
snowRaven
QUOTE (Jason Farlander)
For the purposes of my game, it would be NPC-only as a tradition for the following reasons:

1) I do not want it to be available to starting characters

a. The abilities grant more power to a starting character than other magical
traditions

b. The shadow mages will be the primary antagonist in my campaign, and I do
not want the players to know about them until later (they are a secretive
group)

2) There is no mechanic to switch traditions mid-game

3) If the runners successfully complete the campaign, the shadow mages shouldn't
exist anymore.

If someone wants to propose a solution to reason #2, I'm interested. I just dont feel like trying to come up with one on my own.

1) a. That can be solved by making the tradition slightly more limited to begin with, then use special metamagical abilities to make the Shadow mages do what they do.

1) b. Good reason to not allow them as starting characters grinbig.gif

2) Not really, but there is no reason why say a Hermetic cannot hear the call of a totem if he for some reason changes his way of looking at things. I'd say it'd be harder the more advanced the magicuan is, however, until you pass a certain point where tradition isn't all that important anymore (see Black Lodge, Immortal Elves, Dragons, etc). As for actual mechanics... you don't really need them. If a shaman is changing traditions, have him loose one magic point at a time as his totem leaves him, and make him pay some level of Karma to 're-learn' his magic another way. Once his old magic attribute is reduced below his 'new', he becomes a hermetic, with the 'new' magic attribute he paid for through study (read 'karma') and his 'old' magic attribute is gone as his totem 'leaves'.
For a hermetic, do it backwards - a totem calls him 'increasing' his magic from 1, and once this new 'magic' value passes his old one (requiring initiations if his magic is above six, as usual) he becomes a shaman. Before that point, you can allow him to use magic in a shamanic way, but with, say, a +2 TN.
(A kind of precedence for this is Insect shamans, who switch totems 'in game' so to speak)

Also, in my games there's a metamagical technique called Transcending which allows a magician to summon the spirits of another tradition.

3) Until someone else discovers their techniques...

Don't have time for more now, but I'll return later with a proposition for a balanced starting shadow tradition, and enhancements using special metamagics, based on your wishes above. Then you can make it a new magical tradition that will be available to Pcs after the campaign, but have them work really hard to learn the special metamagics to become as powerful as their former opponents...
mfb
since this is NPC-only, just make it a metamagical technique that grants the mage a totem, the totem being the spirit itself. you've got a unique spirit, give it the unique power of teaching this otherwise wholly-unbalanced technique. magic is still new in shadowrun; there are lots of things that humanity doesn't know about, and probably lots of things that IEs and GDs don't know about. let this be one of those things. otherwise, you're trying to make magic static and unchanging, wholly defined by the existing rules. it isn't.
Dissonance
Can I be a Path of Kings Tir Magician? Please?
moosegod
It's disturbing that I find that commet + your usename funny, Dissonance.
snowRaven
Okay, after doing some thinking I figure that Shadow Mages won't be all that different from any of the hermetic 'threats' like Blood Mages and Corrupted. Therefore, I decided to make it a metamagical technique. The rest of their abilities, as you described them, would also be metamagics. (Note that I changed some of the exact workings of your abilities)

Metamagic:
DARKENING (?)
This metamagical technique puts the magician closer to the darker side of humanity and the spirit world. Not quite toxic or corrupted, these magician are nevertheless more in tune with their psychological Shadow, and also more at ease with the concepts of human suffering, fear, and immorality. Due to this, they seem to be more attuned to the workings of Shadow type Free Spirits, and receive the equivalent of the Spirit Affinity Edge to all Shadow Free Spirits. These Shadow Mages get the ability to summon spirits known as Shadow Elementals, appearing as a shadowy, featureless humanoid being.
They can also seal a Spirit Pact with any Shadow Free Spirit.
Note, this metamagic can only be learned from an initiate who knows it, or from a Shadow Free Spirit willing to learn.

Shadow Elemental
-B--------Q-------S----C--I--W----E----R
F-1 / (F-1) x 3 / F-1 / F / F / F / (F)A / F
INIT: F + 10 + 1D6 / F + 20 + 1D6 astral
Powers: Cold Aura, Essence Drain(Temporary), Fear, Immunity(Cold), Materialization, Movement, Paralyzing Touch, Shadow Cloak
Weaknesses: Allergy(Sunlight; Moderate), Vulnerability(Fire)
Linked to Illusion spells and Control and Transformation Manipulations. Can perform the same services as regular elementals and require a summoning circle and materials, just as normal elementals.

The Shadow Mages have developed some fairly unique metamagical techniques, and use them to great effect.

Metamagic:
BARTERING
As long as the initiate is aware of a Free Spirit of a type he could normally summon, he can attempt to call the spirit and barter with it. Make an opposed test between the magician’s Charisma+Initiate Grade and the spirits Force. If the magician wins the test, then the spirit appears to the mage and listens to what he or she has to say. If the spirit wins the test, the magician cannot attempt to barter with that spirit again until he has gone up in grade.
If the initiate so wishes, he can now attempt to convince the spirit to do a task for him. Make a standard banishing test between the magician and the spirit, but if the magician wins the last contest, instead of reducing the spirit’s force to 0, the spirit owes the magician one service. If the spirit wins, the magician has to perform a task for the spirit. Magic or Force lost in this manner is regained at a rate of 1 point per minute.
Note, no spirit would voluntarily teach this technique to a magician.
(I combined points to abilities into one here, and altered them slightly - mostly in order to make this metamagic 'viable' for other magicians. You can easily include the Brocken Bow (and any other spirits of similar type; Baba Yaga, Bean Shide, King Frost and Tungak come to mind) for Shadow Mages.)

Metamagic:
EMPOWERING
The initiate can summon an Ally spirit and give it additional powers, at no cost. In the case of Shadow Magician’s, they can summon Shadow Ally Spirits with the additional powers of Shadow Cloak and Fear, but they cannot summon allys with the Inhabiting power.
A Shadow Ally spirit is like a personification of the magician’s darker side; his Shadow. It will look like the magician, but with more sinister features and with deeper shadows. Their personality will lie more towards the Trickster or Shadow free spirit type.
(This is an idea of my own that seems to fit with your group, so I thought I'd put it down here.)

Metamagic:
CLOAKING
This metamagic grants the use of the critter power Shadow Cloak, 3 times per day, self only.
(This could be made part of the "Darkening" metamagic, if so desired).
Jason Farlander
Interesting stuff there snowRaven... I like. I even like the idea of requiring two initiations (gaining darkening and bartering) to become a *full* shadow mage. I'll probably change the name of the "empowering" technique, and I would prefer that the number of shadowcloak castings be limited to initiation grade - but, yeah. Thanks.
snowRaven
Yeah, the three times/day is simply fashioned after the other 'critter-power' metamagic; the movement power Horse shamans can get.

A better suited name for 'empowering' is welcome, if you come up with one upsidedown.gif

So, you're welcome, and thank you - I may very well use an idea similar to this in my own campaigns. I started fashioning a Shadow Mage tradition based on Jungian psychology a year or so ago (the Shadow Ally spirit thing comes from that) but I couldn't make it all fit together - in combination with your ideas, it just might work out...
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