So, a friend of mine is playing a phys-mage, and had an interesting question, if a phys-mage summons a watcher and casts eyes of the pack on it, does it effectively give him astral perception? This is only relevent for phys-mages, as they are the only mages who can summon but not use astral perception. Before anyone starts making accusations of twinking and trying to circumvent the rules, it should be noted that he took eyes of the pack because it is a damn useful spell and only had this idea as an off hand thing well afterwards.

Lucy

Watchers cannot materialize can they? If so, no spell can be cast on them from the physical pane, meaning it would require Astral Perception to cast it on them. Deep Weed, my friend.

The spell description explicitly disallows astrally perceiving through it.

The way the spell is worded, the implication of the can not use astral perception is that the mage can't use his own astral perception through it, but if the target's perception is solely astral space the spell really doesn't describe it (depending on interpretation of the passage "The subject does not have any control over the targets actions and can not cast spells or astrally percieve through the borrowed vision").

Lucy

i can see where you might make an argument for that, but it's not a strong enough argument to make it into my games. "can not ...astrally percieve throught he borrowed vision" is some fairly clear-cut language.

Also note that the borrowed sight is restricted to metahumans.

Begs a question, though. What if you cast this on an astrally projecting mage? They don't have any physical sight to speak of, and astral perception won't work.

As Astral Sight doesn't have anything to do with vision at all except vision being a metaphor for what they sense and Eyes of the Pack only effects vision, no it wouldn't work.

However, should the Mage design a broad spectrum Eyes of the Pack spell that allows him to use any sense the targets have, he could use it on a dual natured being to "gain" Astral Perception.

However, if the player wants Astral Perception that bad, tell him/her to Initiate twice already.

EDIT: Zazen, Projecting mages can still see and hear the material plane just fine (enless say, they're blind or deaf). However they do go on to say basically they're all illiterate in that they can see a stop sign and recognize the shape and the colors as a stop sign, but some how they can't recognize the shape of the white colors as being words. Page 173, SR3.

They can not taste or smell however, and can only touch Astral objects.

EDIT2: And as manifestation declares it is all entirely psychic, and the Adept doesn't have Astral Sight to use to target using a psyhic sense, I don't think Eyes of the Pack would work n a manifested spirit. But a ghoul or materialized spirit (watchers can't materialize) would.