I know that someone out there has worked out what the maximum recoil compensation (not counting innate recoil compensation) that it's possible to get on an assault rifle or similar weapon.
I was hoping that someone could point me in the direction of the relevant thread or, failing that, just reproduce the combo of mods and accessories here.
thanks in advance.
Full Version: Maximum recoil compensation
Highest I've seen is 14, more if using the optional Arsenal rule for Strength giving RC.
Gas Vent for 3, either modification or accessory.
Gyrostabilization for 6, accessory that precludes a lot of other things.
Heavy Barrel for 1, modification.
Personalized Grip or Electronic Firing for 1, modification.
Hip Pad for 1, accessory.
Add a pair of cyberware or milspec armor foot anchors for 1 per foot, that's 14 total RC, enough to suffer no recoil whatsoever firing the Vindicator Minigun, and either reducing the enemy's defense pool by 14 for a wide burst, or increasing your DV by 14 for a minimum DV of 21 (6 base + 14 burst + 1 minimum net hit), which will make even a dragon think twice.
You may be able to get even higher, even without the optional Arsenal rule, but as miniguns have the highest recoil value of any weapon, you won't really need it. And to be fair, you don't even need RC to begin with on a minigun because you can just lay down suppressive fire with a bonus 50% base damage value (total of 9 base, 10 with minimum net hit) to anyone you hit, and incur no recoil at all in the process.
~Umi
Gas Vent for 3, either modification or accessory.
Gyrostabilization for 6, accessory that precludes a lot of other things.
Heavy Barrel for 1, modification.
Personalized Grip or Electronic Firing for 1, modification.
Hip Pad for 1, accessory.
Add a pair of cyberware or milspec armor foot anchors for 1 per foot, that's 14 total RC, enough to suffer no recoil whatsoever firing the Vindicator Minigun, and either reducing the enemy's defense pool by 14 for a wide burst, or increasing your DV by 14 for a minimum DV of 21 (6 base + 14 burst + 1 minimum net hit), which will make even a dragon think twice.
You may be able to get even higher, even without the optional Arsenal rule, but as miniguns have the highest recoil value of any weapon, you won't really need it. And to be fair, you don't even need RC to begin with on a minigun because you can just lay down suppressive fire with a bonus 50% base damage value (total of 9 base, 10 with minimum net hit) to anyone you hit, and incur no recoil at all in the process.
~Umi
QUOTE (Umidori @ Sep 13 2012, 09:22 AM) 
Highest I've seen is 14, more if using the optional Arsenal rule for Strength giving RC.
Gas Vent for 3, either modification or accessory.
Gyrostabilization for 6, accessory that precludes a lot of other things.
Heavy Barrel for 1, modification.
Personalized Grip or Electronic Firing for 1, modification.
Hip Pad for 1, accessory.
Add a pair of cyberware or milspec armor foot anchors for 1 per foot, that's 14 total RC, enough to suffer no recoil whatsoever firing the Vindicator Minigun, and either reducing the enemy's defense pool by 14 for a wide burst, or increasing your DV by 14 for a minimum DV of 21 (6 base + 14 burst + 1 minimum net hit), which will make even a dragon think twice.
You may be able to get even higher, even without the optional Arsenal rule, but as miniguns have the highest recoil value of any weapon, you won't really need it. And to be fair, you don't even need RC to begin with on a minigun because you can just lay down suppressive fire with a bonus 50% base damage value (total of 9 base, 10 with minimum net hit) to anyone you hit, and incur no recoil at all in the process.
~Umi
Gas Vent for 3, either modification or accessory.
Gyrostabilization for 6, accessory that precludes a lot of other things.
Heavy Barrel for 1, modification.
Personalized Grip or Electronic Firing for 1, modification.
Hip Pad for 1, accessory.
Add a pair of cyberware or milspec armor foot anchors for 1 per foot, that's 14 total RC, enough to suffer no recoil whatsoever firing the Vindicator Minigun, and either reducing the enemy's defense pool by 14 for a wide burst, or increasing your DV by 14 for a minimum DV of 21 (6 base + 14 burst + 1 minimum net hit), which will make even a dragon think twice.
You may be able to get even higher, even without the optional Arsenal rule, but as miniguns have the highest recoil value of any weapon, you won't really need it. And to be fair, you don't even need RC to begin with on a minigun because you can just lay down suppressive fire with a bonus 50% base damage value (total of 9 base, 10 with minimum net hit) to anyone you hit, and incur no recoil at all in the process.
~Umi
+ Underbarrel-weight -Mod 1 RC..
+ Front Grip- mod ....
QUOTE (Stingray @ Sep 13 2012, 03:00 AM)
+ Underbarrel-weight -Mod 1 RC..
+ Front Grip- mod ....
+ Front Grip- mod ....
Off the top of my head I don't think those stack with some of the upgrades mentioned above. You also have to think of weapon upgrade slots.
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Sep 13 2012, 07:52 AM)
I know that someone out there has worked out what the maximum recoil compensation (not counting innate recoil compensation) that it's possible to get on an assault rifle or similar weapon.
It's basically laid out at the beginning of the weapon modifications chapter in Arsenal, where it lists which options for recoil compensation are cumulative.
Bye
Thanee
QUOTE (Umidori @ Sep 13 2012, 08:22 AM)
Highest I've seen is 14, more if using the optional Arsenal rule for Strength giving RC.
Gas Vent for 3, either modification or accessory.
Gyrostabilization for 6, accessory that precludes a lot of other things.
Heavy Barrel for 1, modification.
Personalized Grip or Electronic Firing for 1, modification.
Hip Pad for 1, accessory.
Add a pair of cyberware or milspec armor foot anchors for 1 per foot, that's 14 total RC, enough to suffer no recoil whatsoever firing the Vindicator Minigun, and either reducing the enemy's defense pool by 14 for a wide burst, or increasing your DV by 14 for a minimum DV of 21 (6 base + 14 burst + 1 minimum net hit), which will make even a dragon think twice.
You may be able to get even higher, even without the optional Arsenal rule, but as miniguns have the highest recoil value of any weapon, you won't really need it. And to be fair, you don't even need RC to begin with on a minigun because you can just lay down suppressive fire with a bonus 50% base damage value (total of 9 base, 10 with minimum net hit) to anyone you hit, and incur no recoil at all in the process.
~Umi
Gas Vent for 3, either modification or accessory.
Gyrostabilization for 6, accessory that precludes a lot of other things.
Heavy Barrel for 1, modification.
Personalized Grip or Electronic Firing for 1, modification.
Hip Pad for 1, accessory.
Add a pair of cyberware or milspec armor foot anchors for 1 per foot, that's 14 total RC, enough to suffer no recoil whatsoever firing the Vindicator Minigun, and either reducing the enemy's defense pool by 14 for a wide burst, or increasing your DV by 14 for a minimum DV of 21 (6 base + 14 burst + 1 minimum net hit), which will make even a dragon think twice.
You may be able to get even higher, even without the optional Arsenal rule, but as miniguns have the highest recoil value of any weapon, you won't really need it. And to be fair, you don't even need RC to begin with on a minigun because you can just lay down suppressive fire with a bonus 50% base damage value (total of 9 base, 10 with minimum net hit) to anyone you hit, and incur no recoil at all in the process.
~Umi
Net hits don't add to damage when using Suppressive Fire. 9 damage + any ammunition bonus is maximum. It's still decent, considering you can deal that to a whole bunch of people at the same time.
QUOTE (FriendoftheDork @ Sep 13 2012, 05:11 AM)
Net hits don't add to damage when using Suppressive Fire. 9 damage + any ammunition bonus is maximum. It's still decent, considering you can deal that to a whole bunch of people at the same time.
But a narrow full-auto burst does (even the wide full-auto burst does), and I think that's what he was talking about. I didn't see any mention of suppressive fire in the quote.
QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Sep 13 2012, 08:45 PM)
But a narrow full-auto burst does (even the wide full-auto burst does), and I think that's what he was talking about. I didn't see any mention of suppressive fire in the quote.
Try this one, then:
QUOTE
...you can just lay down suppressive fire...
Bye
Thanee
QUOTE (Umidori @ Sep 13 2012, 12:22 AM)
Highest I've seen is 14, more if using the optional Arsenal rule for Strength giving RC.
Vehicles do it better!
QUOTE (Thanee @ Sep 13 2012, 09:43 PM)
Try this one, then:
Bye
Thanee
Bye
Thanee
Thank you for quoting
If the full gyro is no option for you, there is always the cyberarm version which grants 3 points. Ask your GM about using both arms for a total of 6. Or 4 arms for 12 (hi Shiva arms). The good thing about this is that you have weapon-independent recoil compensation. Just pick up any weapon lying around and you are basically fine.
..if i remember right, Adept's ability Grounding (Street Magic??) that gives recoil compensation..
QUOTE (Stingray @ Sep 15 2012, 08:11 AM)
..if i remember right, Adept's ability Grounding (Street Magic??) that gives recoil compensation..
I don't see anything like Grounding in any book. Closest thing is Rooting, which resists knockdown. Any other name it might be? I'd love an adept power that gave RC.
Adept centering perhaps?
-k
-k
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Sep 15 2012, 10:50 AM)
Adept centering perhaps?
-k
-k
Centering away recoil is one of the hidden gems of being an adept.
QUOTE (DWC @ Sep 15 2012, 08:30 AM)
Centering away recoil is one of the hidden gems of being an adept.
Indeed...
Heightened Concentration works well for that as well... Depending upon your Magic Rating.
Stick it on a vehicle. You get the Body in RC. 
So... A T-Bird!
So... A T-Bird!
QUOTE (CanRay @ Sep 15 2012, 03:51 PM)
Stick it on a vehicle. You get the Body in RC.
So... A T-Bird!
So... A T-Bird!
I'll stick with a Zugmaschine with a trailer. Pull into the middle of a hostile zone, park it, open the sides of the trailer, and laugh when you remember the wet work paycheck adds by the body.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 15 2012, 08:37 AM)
Indeed...
Heightened Concentration works well for that as well... Depending upon your Magic Rating.
Heightened Concentration works well for that as well... Depending upon your Magic Rating.
Any way to make that less than a Complex Action?
No, but people say you only need to use that complex action if you want to chang which modifier it applies to.
QUOTE (tsuyoshikentsu @ Sep 16 2012, 12:39 AM)
Any way to make that less than a Complex Action?
Yep... Per the Developer who wrote it (apparently he came on here and clarified), you set the Heightened Concentration to a specific penalty to ignore/offset, and then you are good until you reset it. Setting/Re-Setting is a Complex Action.
One says "No", the other says "Yep" and yet we agree
I dunno. It just seems TOO useful. It does everything.
For example, you could set it to ignore wound modifiers, gaining the effects of more expensive 'ware and qualities. Even if you can only mitigate one condition track at a time, it's a better deal. With 3 magic and 1 power point you can negate 9 Stun Damage worth of wound modifiers. An Adrenaline Pump does that, but only for the length of 1d6 * Rating turns, and then the user takes a point of unresisted stun damage for each turn active. Damage Compensators would work (and can even be applied to Physical instead of Stun), but you'd need them at Rating 9, costing 0.9 Essence, 135,000 nuyen, and being near impossible to find at an availability of 27F. A Pain Editor allows you to fully ignore stun damage modifiers with only minor negative tradeoffs, and it's a lot cheaper than Damage Compensators in terms of essence and nuyen, but it's also pretty hard to find at 18F. And of course the High Pain Tolerance positive quality is absolute rubbish, costing 15 BP to negate a mere 3 damage and a wound modifier of only -1.
But unlike all of those options, with Heightened Concentration if you aren't wounded you can just "turn it off" and apply the bonus elsewhere. Need a spare Gas Vent or Gyrostabilization that takes up no physical space or mod or accessory slots and can be applied to any weapon? No problem! Need to bypass an opponent's armor with a Called Shot? Go ahead and take off only half or a quarter of the dice you would normally! Firing blind? Forgot about fancy tricks like a Radar Sensor, spells, martial arts maneuvers, or even the Blind Fighting adept power (which actually only reduces the Full Darkness visibility modifier?), cut the modifier in half with a modest Magic score, or just drop it completely with a high one! Trying to climb a sheer wall? Negotiate with a sworn enemy? Pay attention to the real world while in VR? Swim through rough seas? Repair an item without tools or parts? See through Heavy Fog / Mist / Rain / Smoke? Dodge a blast from a shotgun set to Wide Spread? Defend against half a dozen attacks before your next action? Congratulations, none of those affects you negatively if you have a high magic value and take an action to switch your concentration!
~Umi
For example, you could set it to ignore wound modifiers, gaining the effects of more expensive 'ware and qualities. Even if you can only mitigate one condition track at a time, it's a better deal. With 3 magic and 1 power point you can negate 9 Stun Damage worth of wound modifiers. An Adrenaline Pump does that, but only for the length of 1d6 * Rating turns, and then the user takes a point of unresisted stun damage for each turn active. Damage Compensators would work (and can even be applied to Physical instead of Stun), but you'd need them at Rating 9, costing 0.9 Essence, 135,000 nuyen, and being near impossible to find at an availability of 27F. A Pain Editor allows you to fully ignore stun damage modifiers with only minor negative tradeoffs, and it's a lot cheaper than Damage Compensators in terms of essence and nuyen, but it's also pretty hard to find at 18F. And of course the High Pain Tolerance positive quality is absolute rubbish, costing 15 BP to negate a mere 3 damage and a wound modifier of only -1.
But unlike all of those options, with Heightened Concentration if you aren't wounded you can just "turn it off" and apply the bonus elsewhere. Need a spare Gas Vent or Gyrostabilization that takes up no physical space or mod or accessory slots and can be applied to any weapon? No problem! Need to bypass an opponent's armor with a Called Shot? Go ahead and take off only half or a quarter of the dice you would normally! Firing blind? Forgot about fancy tricks like a Radar Sensor, spells, martial arts maneuvers, or even the Blind Fighting adept power (which actually only reduces the Full Darkness visibility modifier?), cut the modifier in half with a modest Magic score, or just drop it completely with a high one! Trying to climb a sheer wall? Negotiate with a sworn enemy? Pay attention to the real world while in VR? Swim through rough seas? Repair an item without tools or parts? See through Heavy Fog / Mist / Rain / Smoke? Dodge a blast from a shotgun set to Wide Spread? Defend against half a dozen attacks before your next action? Congratulations, none of those affects you negatively if you have a high magic value and take an action to switch your concentration!
~Umi
QUOTE (Umidori @ Sep 17 2012, 12:42 AM)
I dunno. It just seems TOO useful. It does everything.
For example, you could set it to ignore wound modifiers, gaining the effects of more expensive 'ware and qualities. Even if you can only mitigate one condition track at a time, it's a better deal. With 3 magic and 1 power point you can negate 9 Stun Damage worth of wound modifiers. An Adrenaline Pump does that, but only for the length of 1d6 * Rating turns, and then the user takes a point of unresisted stun damage for each turn active. Damage Compensators would work (and can even be applied to Physical instead of Stun), but you'd need them at Rating 9, costing 0.9 Essence, 135,000 nuyen, and being near impossible to find at an availability of 27F. A Pain Editor allows you to fully ignore stun damage modifiers with only minor negative tradeoffs, and it's a lot cheaper than Damage Compensators in terms of essence and nuyen, but it's also pretty hard to find at 18F. And of course the High Pain Tolerance positive quality is absolute rubbish, costing 15 BP to negate a mere 3 damage and a wound modifier of only -1.
For example, you could set it to ignore wound modifiers, gaining the effects of more expensive 'ware and qualities. Even if you can only mitigate one condition track at a time, it's a better deal. With 3 magic and 1 power point you can negate 9 Stun Damage worth of wound modifiers. An Adrenaline Pump does that, but only for the length of 1d6 * Rating turns, and then the user takes a point of unresisted stun damage for each turn active. Damage Compensators would work (and can even be applied to Physical instead of Stun), but you'd need them at Rating 9, costing 0.9 Essence, 135,000 nuyen, and being near impossible to find at an availability of 27F. A Pain Editor allows you to fully ignore stun damage modifiers with only minor negative tradeoffs, and it's a lot cheaper than Damage Compensators in terms of essence and nuyen, but it's also pretty hard to find at 18F. And of course the High Pain Tolerance positive quality is absolute rubbish, costing 15 BP to negate a mere 3 damage and a wound modifier of only -1.
In the end though, it's only 3 dice your are "gaining". Which is good value for a PP, but not imbalanced at all. THe Pain Editor is much better here since it prevents you from ever getting unconscious.
QUOTE (Umidori @ Sep 17 2012, 12:42 AM)
Need to bypass an opponent's armor with a Called Shot? Go ahead and take off only half or a quarter of the dice you would normally!
That's not how it works. Heightened Concentration only allows you to ignore one modifier that does not exceed your Magic rating. So, it is not possible to partly negate a higher modifier. With a Magic score of 3, you can only ignore penalties of up to 3. As soon as the modificator goes up to 4, you gain no benefit anymore.
Nevertheless, i agree it is a versatile power that definetely has a lot of uses
Except it's not only 3 dice, it's up to 6 at character creation, with even greater potential with initiation, AND it can be combined with metamagics such as Adept Centering. Even a modestly advanced adept who has Initiated only twice can enjoy the ability to ignore a modifier of up to 10 dice.
~Umi
~Umi
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