One of my players is interested in playing a rat shapeshifter.

Is there a formula for coming up with attribute max/mins, abilities, and BP costs? Or is it more of an art than a science?

Anyone? Bueller?

Just noticed this thread, also no replies: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=37885

No love for shapeshifters?

A quick glance and some math done with the fox, wolf, eagle, and jaguar shapeshifters suggest it's almost certainly slightly more art than science.

I did notice that there are "sets". For example, 2/7(10) and 1/6(9) and 3/8(12).

Adding up the min, max, and aug scores for each of those four types revealed a loose pattern.

MIN: low-mid 10s range
MAX: low-mid 60s range
AUG: low-mid 90s range

Adding the totals gave a range of low 160s to low 170s.

Meanwhile, Abilities seems to be based completely as appropriate to the type of animal.

Still not sure how BP costs are figured, given that, for example, the stats are roughly even and the seal's (70BP) low light vision is less than the jaguar's (65BP) enhanced hearing, smell, and low light vision.

Okay. Here's what I've come up with thus far.

Rat Shapeshifter: ?? BP

BOD: 2/7 (10) [rats have good endurance & immunity]
AGI: 3/8 (12) [rats are very agile]
REA: 1/6 (9)
STR: 1/4 (6)
CHA: 2/7 (10) [rats are social]
INT: 1/6 (9)
LOG: 1/6 (9)
WIL: 3/8 (12) [rats are tenacious]
INI: 4/14 (20)

Abilities: -1 Reach*, Resistance to Pathogens*, Enhanced Senses (Hearing, low-light vision, smell)



For BP, the stats and abilities put it towards the top of the list, in the 70BP range (if not on par with the Bear at 80). But then it's a rat. Not like a bear or a tiger that has natural weapons and can fight on it's own.

Mostly it's the fact that no one's managed to reverse engineer any sort of logic out of the shifter numbers. The consensus has been pick a shifter and re-fluff as intended animal.

Too late!

Thanks for replying at least, though!

Swap out the extra point of Body for whatever that quality is that gives extra dice to resist pathogens. After all, rats are small, yeah yeah yeah. They're not big, no no no.

Well, I just got here, but I figured I'd help out as to why there are so few threads.

Hm, not a bad idea, though a) is that an even trade off? b) Body isn't really about size.

Edit: I guess it is a fair trade, considering an Attribute costs 10 BP to raise and the quality is 5 BP for just pathogens.

Edit the Second: Talked to my player. We're going with the Pathogen resistance only in rat form. Have altered the stats above to reflect it.

I do appreciate the explanation.

Are the tenacious individually or in groups? If it's in groups only, the charisma bonus likely covers it.

Edit: a random Chinese horoscope site listed these as qualities of people born under the sign of the rat: Smart, Magnetic, Well-liked, Affable, Quick-witted, Surreptitious, Selfish, Protective, Calculating. I wouldn't run too crazy with all of it, but it may help give it direction.

A Wikipedia article on wererats also lists two historical references for wererats.

It's always been my understanding that Body is at least partially about size. A troll's 5-10 Body isn't just about durability; it also reflects that he's a big SOB.

While we're at it, what about other animals like horses or ponies?

ShadowBronies scare me.

Aww, come give me a pony hug, Canny! ♥

I'll tackle it when I have some more time, if there's interest. Unless this was just posted for humor value.

Tenacious individually, too. They're quite resilient.



Thanks!

Running Wild does have stats for rats. Probably under Small Rodents. Or you can look at devil rats, because they are large awakened versions of it.

Which is why BOD attribute should really be renamed into something else.

"Resistance" perhaps? You do resist the following:
-Damage
-Drugs
-Pathogens
-Fatigue

Size is something that should be left to the players choice (within reason).

Or:
Size is a separate attribute:
1: Child
2: Dwarf / Young Adult / Troll Child
3: Adult Human / Young Adult Troll
4: Orc / Large Human / Short Troll
5: Standard Troll
6: Huge Troll

Size could be a situational bonus to intimidation, leadership, negotiation or to see if someone can fit in that small tunnel.

The same goes for Charisma. Charisma is MAINLY about how people perceive you and not your physical appearance.
They should have:
-Charisma [Bonus for Negotiation / Charm / etc.]
-Looks [Influences Intimidation as a bonus if a low value and in hostile social interactions ]

Both positive and negative values of Charisma and Looks can influence each other depending on the situation.

I want a charismatic ugly troll.

Pink Mohawk Centaurs with machine guns

Updated (final?) Rat Shapeshifter:

60 BP

BOD: 1/6 (9)
AGI: 3/8 (12)
REA: 2/7 (10)
STR: 1/4 (6)
CHA: 1/6 (9)
INT: 1/6 (9)
LOG: 1/6 (9)
WIL: 3/8 (12)
INI: 3/13 (19)

Abilities: -1 Reach*, Resistance to Pathogens*, Enhanced Senses (Hearing, low-light vision, smell)


*Only in rat form.




And thank you to everyone for your replies.

I'd drop it to 1/6 body, per comparison with the rats in Running Wild (they have body 0, but shapeshifters should probably be a little step above that ).
Devil Rats have body 2, but those are a meter long. For comparison, this is a Gambian Pouched Rat, which is about that size. I'd quite consider a regular rat to be comparable to a fox or a cat, rather than to a dog.
Per the shapeshift spell, body is a reasonable size-based metric.

Okay. I've switched the 2/7(10) BOD with the 1/6(9) in REA.