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taeksosin
Howdy folks,

Looking at building a rigger for SR3, and I'd really like to not be the stereotypical rigger that stays in the van while supporting w/drones, etc. I'm not looking for the perfect twink build or anything like that, but some optimization advice when it comes to being a rigger first and being a competent combatant in meat-space second would be nice.

Also, any ins and outs about rigging in 3rd I should know about? I made a ton of characters in the past, but never got a chance to actually play] in a SR3 game.
Stahlseele
Cyber-Limb and an built in Remote-Control-Deck should probably do you well i guess.
Kliko
Use two smaller vehicles (like SUV's).
One as a Remote rigged/auto-piloted drone carrier, the other as a get away vehicle/command post.

This offers a lot of flexibility in your operation.

Also make sure your drones are expendable.
And don't forget the Photovoltaic paint, morphing license plates, library transponder chips etc. etc.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 7 2012, 04:54 PM) *
Cyber-Limb and an built in Remote-Control-Deck should probably do you well i guess.


What he said.
Dont rig the drones - Command them.

Either or both:
-Stealthy smaller mobile drones for spying indoors [Photovoltic paint + other stealth gear]
-Heavy armed ground drones with lots of armor and good guns [Ground Drone+Turret+Ares Alpha]
-Surveillance lighter than air drones with a turret and Ares Alpha giving cover
-Drone Van where you store everything
--This van would launch stealth drones from afar and not from where you deploy
-Rigger van
--Turret, guns and place for X2 ground drones with weapons.
ntwi
I agree somewhat with The Jopp and disagree with some, but like both he and Kliko have said, multiple vehicles provide another layer of security and deniability.

Small crawlers - Kanmushi for the win. Load it up with sensors and photo-voltaic paint and explore with it. If you want to arm it, see if you can get Bastard to let you mount Cigarette Micro-Rockets to it externally (SOTA64 pg35)

Larger Ground Drones - Doberman and Steel Lynx are great but often will not fit into buildings. Downsize onto the Ferret and you lose the armor but gain a sensor suite (R4) and it becomes something potentially disposable to keep security pinned down as the group escapes.

Aerial Combat drones - Often these end up as a trade-off with the ground combat drones. Both are able to cover the outside, and while aerial drones negate most cover, ground drones can go play inside warehouses and other large inside spaces. Whether Roto-drones with external rocket pods or zippier robotic piloted vector thrust drones is a matter of style. One drone of particular note is the Ares Guardian, a slower vector thrust drone with Armor 12, Sensor 4, Signature 7 that comes stock with a mini-turret (capable of handling a HMG or minigun) for only 99k. The fluff on it even says "small enough for indoor use and sturdy enough for outdoor use". Expensive but nice.

Aerial Recon - Condors for the win here. Put photovoltaic paint on it and it can be anything from an "Ed's Tire Shop" advertisement to just another piece of blue sky. Personally, if it's high enough to avoid being shot at and scavenged by a barrens rat, it high enough that I'd want a sport/sniper rifle for the range, or just stick something belt-fed and full auto on for suppressive fire. Good sensor packages are expensive enough though that I tend to keep them out of the fight.

Personal Vehicles - I almost never arm with vehicle I am in with anything bigger than an oil dispenser. In your running life there will be far too many chances for a pop-up turret to be seen and complications to arise. If I need covering fire, that's what my passengers or the second vehicle is for. If the second (armed) vehicle is stopped, it may pop drones, kill the LoneStar and split up, heading towards a couple of friendly chop shops where I can either recover them later or get credit for the parts at a minimum.

The Land Rover 2046 always got good marks from me for capacity and utility at a bargin price. (Remember you can pull out a bench seat to create 200kg of load, giving the van model 29cf and a whopping 1350kg of load while still having two bucket seats.)

The Bulldog certainly has room to pack on more armor, but it's that much bigger as well. I have used an VW SuperKombi before, as simply the mental picture of a VW van as a getaway vehicle was making my group laugh. I was able to pack 12 points of concealed armor on that thing and still have seating for 8. Didn't accelerate or handle very well but it was worth the laughs.

Drones take up ([body+1.5] x body) in cf
Body 1 = 2.5cf
Body 2 = 7cf
Body 3 = 13.5cf
Body 4 = 22cf
Kliko
QUOTE (ntwi @ Oct 8 2012, 08:44 AM) *
The Land Rover 2046 always got good marks from me for capacity and utility at a bargin price. (Remember you can pull out a bench seat to create 200kg of load, giving the van model 29cf and a whopping 1350kg of load while still having two bucket seats.)

The Bulldog certainly has room to pack on more armor, but it's that much bigger as well. I have used an VW SuperKombi before, as simply the mental picture of a VW van as a getaway vehicle was making my group laugh. I was able to pack 12 points of concealed armor on that thing and still have seating for 8. Didn't accelerate or handle very well but it was worth the laughs.
Why ever pack more then rating 4 (concealed) armor? Thats enough to shrug of all but the heavier small arms fire. BEsides, to much armor will affect handling...
ntwi
QUOTE (Kliko @ Oct 8 2012, 01:53 PM) *
Why ever pack more then rating 4 (concealed) armor? Thats enough to shrug of all but the heavier small arms fire. BEsides, to much armor will affect handling...


A couple of reasons to pack on the heavier armor.
1. This was a getaway vehicle, not the daily driver. My rigger had a small fleet of vehicles to choose from by that point in the campaign. For the daily driver, yeah, 3-4 points of armor is enough.

2. A heavy pistol with explosive rounds can punch through 4 points of armor and with low BOD scores for most vehicles, even a couple of successes can ruin your day fast.

3. "For every 6 points of armor added, increase the Handling of the vehicle by +1" Depending on how the GM rules phrases like this, the break point is often 5/6 armor for me, or piling on as much as I can, depending on the opposition.

4. The rules for hitting passengers. (SR3 pg 149) Here it seems like you only reduce the power by the armor, not halving and then reducing. Thicker armor always made the squishy people (like your extraction target) inside feel safer.

As a rigger driving a true getaway vehicle, I think you need to be capable of dealing with more than just light pistols, smg and the like. Grenades, heavier weapons or AV ammo all can come out when hitting harder targets. For the vehicle of the average runner, used in daily life, meets, and stakeouts, yeah 4 armor is good.
Kliko
Good points all!
Lantzer
In SR3, for a physically active drone rigger who doesn't have to go limp everytime he needs to do something, You can skip the VCR.

I'd have a RC deck on a carrying strap, controlled by DNI (datajack). The van is just another drone.

I've played around with 'captain's chair riggers' before.

Why do it:

1) You can't always take your truck with you. Vehicle riggers tend to become
"the guy who drives the van" and can get left out of the action. True, often it's the kind of 'action' that you'd _want_ to be left out of, but it's a player-fun issue.

2) You can't afford to stop and take a quick nap to jump into a drone. If you want a rigger who stays with his team, he's got to keep up. A jumped-in rigger's basically paralysed - not a good situation to be in during a run.

3) You have more than one drone. Remember that when you jump into a drone, you lose track of the rest of the network. You have better control of that one drone, but the rest of the network is on its own. At least in captain's chair you have active control over every drone. If you are going to be a 'Drone swarm' rigger anyway, the VCR is just a big expensive essence hole that won't be used when things get busy.

How to do it:

1) Computer programming skill - This helps those dog-brained drones figure out what you want (assists in comprehension tests). Upgrading the drone dog-brains is also a good idea if you can afford it.

2) Preprogrammed commands - You'd be suprised how often similiar situations crop up. These are great for when it hits the fan. Multiple drones can be controlled in an intricate dance if you have planned well. Basically, hotkeys for the drone rigger. (Drones 1-6, return to my beacon and shoot anything without a valid IFF) or (Cease fire! Cease fire!).

3) A big computer at home, and lots of memory for your deck. For more than just commands, the extra memory is useful for storing and manipulating surveilance data.

4) BattleTac upgrades for your RC deck and your non-disposable drones. The FDDM upgrade is basically a data-sharing system. The IVIS system effectively makes the drones make better use of the system.
Cain
The ultimate twink trick was to rig a J.I.M. suit. Suddenly you're a Battletech Elemental, and had drones at your beck and call.

Stahlseele
Ah, right, i forgot about that!
Power-Armor with hardened vehicular Armor!
And because it's meant for deep water diving work, it is also completely immune to chem-tech!
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 11 2012, 11:06 AM) *
Ah, right, i forgot about that!
Power-Armor with hardened vehicular Armor!
And because it's meant for deep water diving work, it is also completely immune to chem-tech!


I prefer the Caterpillar Horseman for that.
Use similar Models for +1BOD and Lower Max Speed 20%
1-Life Support 2
1-Standard Armor (14)
2-Flexible Weapon Mount [Shoulder Mount]
1-Rigger Cocoon
1-Ruthenium Polymers
1-Mini Drone Rack [Aerial Scout Drone]





Stahlseele
SR3 Buddy, SR3! ^^
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 11 2012, 02:47 PM) *
SR3 Buddy, SR3! ^^

Oh, sorry about that. When do we get SR5 that fixes EVERYTHING?
Stahlseele
SR5D20, around the corner next year.
*runs*
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 11 2012, 04:01 PM) *
SR5D20, around the corner next year.
*runs*

I dont understand - how will they make that work when i have a skill of 5 and an attribute of 5. Math dictates that I need 10 dice at least.

Does that mean that they have removed the rule of 6 for Edge and I roll 10D20? spin.gif
DuckEggBlue Omega
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 11 2012, 08:36 PM) *
Ah, right, i forgot about that!
Power-Armor with hardened vehicular Armor!
And because it's meant for deep water diving work, it is also completely immune to chem-tech!

I know someone who tried this and the GM was quick to point out - "that underwater movement is one fifth of normal speed (running that is, walking is just 1m per combat turn) and since the entry makes no mention of modifying this, that is how fast the suit moves, and since it is mechanised, that's how fast it always moves, and even that's generous considering it's designed to work underwater at nuetral boyancy and not on land, and that back-up the gaurds call in will probably have the tools to crack the armour, and will show up faster than you can waddle away. But sure, you can do that if you want <maniacal laughter>."

You can fit a bucket seat in a large anthroform drone though, and it is significantly better (worse?).

We had a rigger who ran around with an assault rifle. He was setup as the electronics/intrusion guy and used those same skills to steal vehicles as necessary (VCR plus Vehicle Empathy meant he was defaulting to his rather high Reaction at +1 so he could pilot just about anything he was physically in and didn't need to spend alot of points on piloting skills), including a limo for a kidnapping and a cleaner's van in an escape from a facility. He had the rigger van with drones but it was only used for surveillance, except that time it got rammed through the plate glass front of a building to rescue the team that suddenly decided this 'casing the security' thing was a waste of time and grabbed what they wanted then and there, with the obvious complications. And he wasn't even driving it, he was inside deciding that casing the security was a waste of time.
BishopMcQ
For my combat decker, I grabbed the Franchi SPAS 22 and Shotguns (5/7) was my primary weapon skill. Shock Lock, Bola and regular rounds, and I had a handful of the Big-D rounds (fire breath). For implants I used a Suprathyroid gland and Enhanced articulation to help with the physical stuff. Combat Pool was really just my Dodge Pool, unless I felt really cocky.

Not a lot, I know, but it's been almost 8 years since I played that character.
Bigity
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 11 2012, 09:01 AM) *
SR5D20, around the corner next year.
*runs*


I think at this point we need to evolve the joke into something even odder. Like L5R's keep system or something.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Bigity @ Oct 12 2012, 08:35 AM) *
I think at this point we need to evolve the joke into something even odder. Like L5R's keep system or something.


I actually like L5R's system a lot. smile.gif
Stahlseele
The Franchi SPAS-22 is, hands down, the best damn Shotgun in the Books.
10S Damage to 13D Damage with Smartlink 2? YES PLEASE!
Add in ExEx Ammo for 12S to 15D and you are getting close to Pocket Assault-Cannon Damage
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 12 2012, 08:54 AM) *
The Franchi SPAS-22 is, hands down, the best damn Shotgun in the Books.
10S Damage to 13D Damage with Smartlink 2? YES PLEASE!
Add in ExEx Ammo for 12S to 15D and you are getting close to Pocket Assault-Cannon Damage


Indeed, though I still preferred the Enfield AS-7 in SR3. Not really sure why, though. smile.gif
Stahlseele
it can do full auto and comes with drum/clip-magazine, not internal where you have to manually fill in the bullets each time you run dry, if i remember correctly, but that's kinda wasted there . .
it's especially bad since it's only 1 more point of power, if you go full auto with 6 bullets, because the enfield, if i remember correctly, starts out at 8S damage, not 10S . .
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 12 2012, 09:39 AM) *
it can do full auto and comes with drum/clip-magazine, not internal where you have to manually fill in the bullets each time you run dry, if i remember correctly, but that's kinda wasted there . .
it's especially bad since it's only 1 more point of power, if you go full auto with 6 bullets, because the enfield, if i remember correctly, starts out at 8S damage, not 10S . .


That could be it, yeah. Thanks. smile.gif
Bigity
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 12 2012, 09:41 AM) *
I actually like L5R's system a lot. smile.gif


Oh I do too, but it would be a even more bizarre conversion for SR to go to than D20.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Bigity @ Oct 12 2012, 03:17 PM) *
Oh I do too, but it would be a even more bizarre conversion for SR to go to than D20.


Well, yeah, you have that right.
Snow_Fox
Just because a rigger is the wheel man doesn't mean that's all he does, think of the "Dukes of Hazard" or the character of Tanim created by Mercedes Lackey- a race car driver and serious car nut who happens to be a wizard.
The "traditional" always struck us as pretty pointless 'Just wait in the car and we'll be back in 30 minutes.'
Stahlseele
THe Rigger stays in the Van to lend a Hand via Drones or Gunnery with the REALLY big Cannons.
Not just to wait there. He can also busy himself doing surveillance with his drones.
Or get somebody to open up a connection to him so he can attempt to take over the building itself.
And he usually stays in the Van, beause they might need him there when a speedy run away is needed.

With the wireless Matrix in SR4 and bodging Decker and Rigger together in a "Hacker" *shivers* they have given a way to stop this.
Just no reason to stop this. Same with the stay at home Decker. There is NO REASON EVER for them to leave a safe spot ever again.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 13 2012, 05:30 PM) *
With the wireless Matrix in SR4 and bodging Decker and Rigger together in a "Hacker" *shivers* they have given a way to stop this.
Just no reason to stop this. Same with the stay at home Decker. There is NO REASON EVER for them to leave a safe spot ever again.


SR4 horrible hacking rules aside they have given a lot of options to make very flexible riggers and hackers that CAN leave the safespot without being a liability to the team in survivability and firepower on their own.
Stahlseele
There was wireless matrix access in SR3 already.
It just wasn't so everywhere as it is in SR4.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 15 2012, 12:03 PM) *
There was wireless matrix access in SR3 already.
It just wasn't so everywhere as it is in SR4.


Yea, but computer hardware and software had HORRIBLE pricetags.
Stahlseele
everything had horrible pricetags <.<
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 15 2012, 12:21 PM) *
everything had horrible pricetags <.<


Like Alpha Grade Orthoskin with ruthenium polymers and max sensors.

At 570K they had a +12 to see me when buck naked...

I wish they could have split up the damn thing for the parts where I needed it - Hands and Head only.

I dont remember ever wanting to go with a runner called "The Streaker"...
Stahlseele
Uhm . . Orthoskin is Bioware, the Ruthenum Polymers only work for Cyber-Skin, not Bio-Skin O.o
And that's why there are such things as suits and cloaks with ruthenium polymers. No need to be naked.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 15 2012, 12:48 PM) *
Uhm . . Orthoskin is Bioware, the Ruthenum Polymers only work for Cyber-Skin, not Bio-Skin O.o
And that's why there are such things as suits and cloaks with ruthenium polymers. No need to be naked.


Sorry, I meant the Dermal Sheating in SR3 when Ruthenium Polymers had a cost at 10K per 1 square meter.
Stahlseele
Ah, i see ^^
Yeah NSRCG gives 27500 for the cloak and 25000 for the suit.
And then you still need the image scanners. another 20 to 50k.
Meaning a complete price of 47500-77500 for the cloak and
45000 to 75000 for the suit.
But on the other hand, you can combine that with ortho-skin.
And you don't need to strip for it to work. and it can be replaced.
and repaired. and does not cost essence.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 15 2012, 01:09 PM) *
Ah, i see ^^
Yeah NSRCG gives 27500 for the cloak and 25000 for the suit.


NSRCG???
Stahlseele
. . . don't tell me you don't know the majesty of the NSRCG3 . .
nezumi
The rigger could be his own forward spotter.

Or go with the classic suitcase rigger. Always a winner.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 15 2012, 01:11 PM) *
. . . don't tell me you don't know the majesty of the NSRCG3 . .


I dont. Been a few years since I played SR3 and we just picked it up a few months ago.

Please do tell.
Stahlseele
The single most powerfull tool for SR3 players and GMs.
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