In shadowrun. Are there still dwarves in the midgeted sense (I.e. someone suffering from traditional dwarfism)?
Did any dwarves become Dwarves?
What is the new proper term for a dwarf dwarf if there are still dwarves?

Short.

Double "D" .... ?

HokaHey
Medicineman

Yes, it's called Neoteny.



A few.



Gnome.

Bye
Thanee

actually, Neoteny is not dwarfism entirely. There are multiple reasons for people commonly referred to as "dwarves" as I believe you mean it. Some are due to growth hormone, some due to spontaneous or hereditary genetic defects in the muscular-skeletal system... achondroplasia, pseudoachondroplasia, osseous dysplasia, chondrodystrophy, osteochondrodystrophy... Far too many to cover in one post. One of the most famous I can think of is Warwick Davis (Willow Ufgood), who has spondyloepiphyseal dysplasia congenita, which has skeletal abnormalities and malformations which result in short stature, but may typically have hands and feet of normal size.

Suffice to say that the causes are genetic disorders, in the shadowrun world, would be considered and treated as such: I see no reason why genetherapy as shadowrun describes it couldn't eliminate the disorders. It has no direct bearing on the Awakening, nor the meta-human classification of "dwarf" in the shadowrun universe in any written works I know of.

since it's mostly a genetic disorder and it makes you kind of "stand out" (or the opposite) the Gene Freak (no offense) negative quality would be most appropriate, I suggest.

Midget Gunslinger:
http://www.xpautographs.com/6527-2883-larg...r-autograph.jpg

No, it's not.

Neoteny is "not maturing"; you get locked at a pint where you look like you're 11, 12, 13 years old. And some twelve and thirteen year olds can be quite tall - nearly as tall as the adults around them, in fact.

Dwarfism / "being a midget" / etc, is an entirely and completely different condition - or series of related conditions, as I see Krishach has already explained.

... I would tend to say that in Shadowrun, there aren't any, anymore. At least, not born since 2010-ish. All those people who had the condition beforehand, were just trying-and-failing to extress the Dwarf metagene. That is to say, they were "failed spike babies". At least that's how I'd handle the setting.


Again, no, absolutely not. >_<

Well, ok, it's the closest thing there is, though, and could certainly be used for other conditions of dwarfism.

Bye
Thanee

No, really, it's not the closest thing. It's nowhere near it. Neoteny doesn't even require the character to be especially short. They just look like a child / tweenager (with all the social hurdles that puts in a shadowrunner's path).

So, what else (from the existing rules) would be closer to model dwarfism in Shadowrun?



"...they are usually quite short..."



It's not exactly the same thing, but rulewise it would work just as well.

Lower Physical Condition Monitor and social modifiers. Seems appropriate.

Bye
Thanee

Nothing. The rules currently do not address that in any way.


"Usually" != "always"; you can have a character with neoteny who looks twelve or thirteen and is 5' to 5"4" (like I was, actually; and I was 5'7" at 14, 5'9" at 15, and my full adult height is just under 5'10").

OTOH, someone with actual dwarfism from any source? Is ALWAYS, in every single case, going to be exceptionally short - definitely no taller than 4'6", and very likely quite a deal shorter than that.

Surely you understand the meaning of the word "close".

Let's call it an approximation. It really isn't that far off.

If you would add another Quality "Dwarfism" that did the exact same thing, just with different fluff text, you would be pretty much there.

I think that's pretty close.

Bye
Thanee

I already answered that.

Gene Freak is purely cosmetic, though.

Neoteny adds a physical component to the social one (it actually refers to genetic freaks as well).

I also don't think a bonus to Intimidate is that appropriate. And aggressive behavior also seems a little off.

Bye
Thanee

I find it stupid.

In my setting, there could be dwarves for any metatype like their could be albinos for any metatype.

Easily fixable, though, with corrective gene therapies.

That's likely. Though only wealthy people can access such a technology. So in the poorest lands, dwarves would still exist. Even in richer lands. I would see communities (like hamishes for exemple) refusing corrective genes therapie.

IRL, Dwarfs is correct for people with dwarfism, and Dwarves means the fantasy race. Most likely, in the future, dwarfs will be called little people (which is the most accepted general term today). Take a look at http://www.lpaonline.org/ if you are interested.

You suck. I'm 26 years old and unless I have some freak growth spurt I'm going to be stuck here at 5'6".

In any event, I don't think all cases of dwarfism would be able to be considered "failed spike babies," although I can see some being that. I think primarily dwarfism would be all but eradicated in much of the world... that is, the world in which they have recordings of such things. I see dwarfism existing in the SINless population, primarily because there is such a range of reasons why it is caused and such a lack of treatment to those who don't legally exist.

I was under the impression that the PK definition was "Little people"

Edit: nvm brain fried after work

Pfff; one kid I used to babysit when I was in highschool? By the time he was fourteen, he was already over six feet tall.

I think I like the failed UGE expression explanation the most. It's stupid, but it works, kinda like the rest of Shadowrun.

Still, you'd think if it wasn't true, they'd have had *some* midgeted person story by now. And *that's* gotta double suck, everyone confusing you with a dwarf the whole time.

Surged human with metagenetic quality Metahuman Traits (Dwarfism)
Dwarf with Human Looking quality.
Actual midgets due to genetic disorder.

One could't really tell the difference. Except for the second one being able to drink more booze, but run significantly slower.

For a double dose of dwarfing...

That's not such a bad thing. I'm 6'10", and it's REALLY not all it's cracked up to be. Have some serious complications resulting from it, too.

I did previously mention that Gene Therapy would likely correct or eliminate this condition. Because there are multiple genetic components and spontaneous mutations, it could also be argued that these were failed expressions, especially at shadowruns complete lack of mentioning them. I, however, do not personally subscribe to this.