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FuelDrop
Ok, here's the challenge: Make a character with the biggest reduction in lifestyle costs while leaving enough points to make the character playable afterwards.
My best is 50% of normal costs in the form of: Ogre (for ogre stomach SURGE quality, without cutting into your PQ point limit), Digestive expansion bioware, EPE: Vegisin genetic treatment.

can anyone do any better?
CanRay
Hobo with a Shotgun, Street-Level Lifestyle. 0. nyahnyah.gif
FuelDrop
QUOTE (CanRay @ Oct 21 2012, 01:57 PM) *
Hobo with a Shotgun, Street-Level Lifestyle. 0. nyahnyah.gif

I thought you'd be all over this, it's a way to afford more safehouses!
Krishach
Adept Troll Ghoul Brawler, street lifestyle. If you want just the % reducing costs, that's fine, but you could instead take qualities that would severely discourage people from bothering you on the street, and a build that doesn't require expensive equipment that people might try to steal.

The local knowledge that people attempting to mess with you not only get killed, but eaten, might also discourage the local color.
tsuyoshikentsu
If you're not looking to lead a High lifestyle, you're insanely better off going for negative LP qualities than things like that.
FuelDrop
You know, if I'd asked you guys to make, say, the ultimate mundane climber then people would be posting builds. for this? everyone's dodging around the question.

Why?

Also, if you want to live in a luxury lifestyle the savings from this kind of minmaxing add up very quickly. but that doesn't matter.
Dolanar
perhaps you should modify the challenge, the easiest way to live cheap is to live on a cheaper lifestyle simple as that, perhaps make the challenge to be living as cheaply as possible on a Medium or higher lifestyle...
Christian Lafay
Thinking of Negative LPs, anyone able to get a decent level lifestyle down to free because of all the faults?

"Yeah, it's a piece of drek. But it's my piece of drek, all 2,000 sq feet of it."

Got curious, sat down with some quick numbers. Thinking the top couple floors of a rundown high-rise that is gang controlled. Think of Peach Trees from the movie Dredd. You do a 10 hours of work a week for the MaMa Clan (sticking with the example) and you get the top couple of floors to yourself for free, plus a grand in your pocket for the work done.


Comforts - Low - 2
The stuff that was there when you took over
Entertainment - Low - 2
Just enough to pass the downtime, if needed
Necessities - Middle - 3
Bumped to Luxury space, that being a few floors, by a quality below
Neighborhood - Low - 2
What do you expect?
Security - Middle - 3
Mostly the MaMa Clan letting you know if things seem off.

Qualities:
Ambusher's Delight -3 Loft style, no real walls.
Corporate Owned -3 Owned by the MaMa Clan
Green Plan -1 Bad area, best they got
Lax Security -2 You put in a couple hours of week but you aren't in so they don't care as much about your neck
Network Bottleneck -1 Bad area, bad reception
Rough Neighborhood -1 Self-Explanatory
Trigger-Happy Landloard -1 Self-Explanatory
Worse Neighbors -1 Self-Explanatory
Worplace +1 Bumps the size up to Luxury

Now with Corporate (Gang) Owned you have to take the Day Job quality. Ten hours a week min for doing things such as doing collection runs or what ever your specialty is. So there you have it. A decent safehouse for better than free. Don't want the day job? Pay 300 a month. 400 if you want Luxury food with the Homegrown Farming quality.
Xenefungus
I think FuelDrop really only wanted a listing of all things that give a minus percentage to lifestyle costs. I think there are more than he mentioned, but I can't remember them right now.
Christian Lafay
Oh, I understand. But the comment "more safehouses" just made me think of really cheap ones that still kind of work.
Glyph
He pretty much covered all of the 'ware that actually gives a reduction to lifestyle costs. Personally, if I were the GM, I would house rule that ogre stomach and digestive expansion wouldn't work together, since they do the exact same thing. Digester endosymbionts and the adept power of sustenance don't reduce lifestyle costs - even though they should.

Outside of 'ware, you can get cheap to free lifestyle costs with judicious use of negative LP modifiers for custom lifestyles, or qualities such as day job or trust fund that give you regular income to buy a lifestyle with. Or play a free spirit, which requires no rest or sustenance. Or be another character's roommate, either letting them pay the extra to board you, or paying a mere 10% of the lifestyle you are leeching off of. Or use the lifestyle spoofing rules from unwired.
_Pax._
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Oct 21 2012, 12:42 AM) *
Ok, here's the challenge: Make a character with the biggest reduction in lifestyle costs while leaving enough points to make the character playable afterwards.
My best is 50% of normal costs in the form of: Ogre (for ogre stomach SURGE quality, without cutting into your PQ point limit), Digestive expansion bioware, EPE: Vegisin genetic treatment.

can anyone do any better?

Free Spirit Hobo. Lifestyle cost = 0.
Halinn
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Oct 21 2012, 05:12 PM) *
Free Spirit Hobo. Lifestyle cost = 0.

Next job: achieve a negative Lifestyle cost.
Ryu
Day Job: Making Burgers, watching people.
Halinn
QUOTE (Ryu @ Oct 21 2012, 10:00 PM) *
Day Job: Making Burgers, watching people.

That's having a net income. I'm talking negative Lifestyle cost.
FuelDrop
Squatter with a trigger happy landlord? biggrin.gif
_Pax._
QUOTE (Halinn @ Oct 21 2012, 11:09 AM) *
Next job: achieve a negative Lifestyle cost.

Actually, the rules don't allow for that. Otherwise?

Advanced Lifestyle, all indices at 0/Street.

Aspected Domain (+5 LP), because it's beneficial to our Hobo Spirit (Free Spirit of Man, of course).

Rough Neighborhood (-1; it's a disused trainyard often used as an obstacle course by bored go-gangers);
Poor Condition (-1; they just don't make cardboard boxes like they used to)
Pest Magnet (-1; the trainyard is next to a dump, so roaches (and worse) abound)
Green Plan (-1; there hasn't been utility service in this place since before the Awakening!)
Haunted (-4; those go-gangers have done some really horrible things in that dump ...)

Technically, that's -3 points.

But like I said, the rules don't actually model NEGATIVE lifestyle costs.

...

Or, you could always take the Trust Fund quality. Comes with a lifestyle AND a monthly stipend. Does that count? smile.gif
Udoshi
QUOTE (Halinn @ Oct 21 2012, 04:34 PM) *
That's having a net income. I'm talking negative Lifestyle cost.


A negative lifestyle. IE, a lifestyle that gives you money.

This is easy. It involves renting, roomates, and reselling.

It should theoretically be possible to get a roommated lifestyle, and lease/rent it out to people, using Negotiation tests to take in more than it's worth.
Makki
roommates
CeeJay
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Oct 21 2012, 07:42 AM) *
My best is 50% of normal costs in the form of: Ogre (for ogre stomach SURGE quality, without cutting into your PQ point limit), Digestive expansion bioware, EPE: Vegisin genetic treatment.

The metagenetic quality "Photometabolism" will save you another 10% of lifestyle costs. So make it a green orge to get to 40% or normal costs...

-CJ
FuelDrop
QUOTE (CeeJay @ Oct 22 2012, 04:23 PM) *
The metagenetic quality "Photometabolism" will save you another 10% of lifestyle costs. So make it a green orge to get to 40% or normal costs...

-CJ

Can't believe I missed that one.

Wow, that's getting a standard luxury lifestyle down to 40k a month... If you work a 40 hour day job and have rating 3 fame then you can afford that without running, and with 10k a month left over!
The Jopp
Hacker
Middle Lifestyle
Optimized Commlink for Spoof Tests
Required Successes: 12 [Extended Test]

Skill: 6 [+2 Spoof]
Program: Spoof 6 [+1 from commlink]
Dicepool: 15D6
Cost per month: 0

EDIT:
This could most likely be done by a regular runner as well with a much smaller dicepool.

Skill 1 (+2) and rating 3 Spoof and a cheap optimized commlink for 7D6 - will take longer.

An agent doing this on a regular basis would work as well.
The Jopp
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Oct 22 2012, 01:06 AM) *
Squatter with a trigger happy landlord? biggrin.gif


What? he rent someone elses cardboard box?
Xenefungus
I really don't like that all the reductions are about "eating less" though. That does not make sense at all, especially for the higher lifestyles. In the current example with 60% it would mean than normally, someone eats for about 60K a month. Not very likely. If it was that easy, everyone could just say "I have luxury everything, except food. I will only eat soy each day, that should also save me 60K then, right?"
MADness
It helps if you consider that they probably weren't all ment to be used in conjunction. Especially things like Ogre Stomach and Photometabolisim. Ten to twenty percent makes more sense than fourty or more.
FuelDrop
QUOTE (Xenefungus @ Oct 22 2012, 06:36 PM) *
"I have luxury everything, except food. I will only eat soy each day, that should also save me 60K then, right?"

"Are you kidding? do you have any idea what soy costs these days?!?" biggrin.gif
NiL_FisK_Urd
Runners companion, p. 111: Beak gives another -10%
CanRay
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Oct 22 2012, 03:33 AM) *
What? he rent someone elses cardboard box?
That's Street-Level.

Squatter is like living in a Crack House. nyahnyah.gif Worse Neighbors, Trigger-Happy Landlord, and other fun things. biggrin.gif
Halinn
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Oct 22 2012, 10:33 AM) *
What? he rent someone elses cardboard box?

Hey! You's sleeping in my alley! Git out or I's shoot yer trog ass.
FuelDrop
So: Ogre stomach, Beak, Photometabolism, Vegisin and digestive expansion gets us down to 30% of normal lifestyle costs...
Wow, that's a big saving on food!
More seriously, it probably shouldn't all stack but with no rules of any kind to the contrary you can maintain a large collection of safehouses and a decent lifestyle on a very low budget.
Christian Lafay
Thinking of negative lifestyle and renting out places... I think I may have to do that with one of my characters. A little bit of that and a little bit of Rusty from the Ocean's series.

"So, now I own five apartment complexes throughout the city."
"But... Aren't they pretty rundown?"
"Why do you think I'm on this job? Stupid bank wouldn't give me a loan for redevelopment."
_Pax._
QUOTE (Xenefungus @ Oct 22 2012, 05:36 AM) *
I really don't like that all the reductions are about "eating less" though. That does not make sense at all, especially for the higher lifestyles. In the current example with 60% it would mean than normally, someone eats for about 60K a month. Not very likely. If it was that easy, everyone could just say "I have luxury everything, except food. I will only eat soy each day, that should also save me 60K then, right?"

As a matter of fact ... yes. And it's almost legal.

Comforts 6, Entertainment 6, Neighborhood 6, Security 6 .... Necessities 0. 40,000 pr month.

Unfortunately, (a) Necessities models food and area/space/room ... and (b) to have a Neighborhood 6, you have to have Necessities 4+.

The Jopp
Hmm...

Day Job: Landlord [Apartments & Coffin Motel rolled into one]

Low Lifestyle: 1000Y

Roommates [Tenants]
Crashpad [Coffin Motel Customers]
Living With Parent [They have a spare room in the building]
AI In Residence [Virtual Tenant]

There, you can stay at home and gain cash.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Oct 22 2012, 08:33 PM) *
As a matter of fact ... yes. And it's almost legal.

Comforts 6, Entertainment 6, Neighborhood 6, Security 6 .... Necessities 0. 40,000 pr month.

Unfortunately, (a) Necessities models food and area/space/room ... and (b) to have a Neighborhood 6, you have to have Necessities 4+.


Only if you use the expanded rules for Lifestyles in the Runner's Companion. If you do not, then those rules do not apply. smile.gif
_Pax._
Um ...... duh ...?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Oct 24 2012, 04:55 AM) *
Um ...... duh ...?


I was talking of the minimum necessities you mentioned. As was been previously stated, a Standard Luxury Lifestyle at 30% is 30,000 Nuyen, and it is a Luxury Lifestyle completely, with no splits for Lifestyle Qualities in Runners Companion. I would never let a charadcter with those combinations do such a thing, but that is just me. *shrug*

Not Everyone uses the Runners Companion rules for their lifestyles. Many of my characters (for example) do not, as there is generally no need for it.
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 24 2012, 07:20 PM) *
I was talking of the minimum necessities you mentioned. As was been previously stated, a Standard Luxury Lifestyle at 30% is 30,000 Nuyen, and it is a Luxury Lifestyle completely, with no splits for Lifestyle Qualities in Runners Companion. I would never let a charadcter with those combinations do such a thing, but that is just me. *shrug*

Not Everyone uses the Runners Companion rules for their lifestyles. Many of my characters (for example) do not, as there is generally no need for it.

I tend to find that only those campaigns that have more downtime for the characters between runs seem to use the alternate lifestyle rules. Or games where there is greater chance of a war hitting home.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Oct 24 2012, 01:23 PM) *
I tend to find that only those campaigns that have more downtime for the characters between runs seem to use the alternate lifestyle rules. Or games where there is greater chance of a war hitting home.


Well, I DO have characters who use the Expanded Rules, just not all of them. For most of my characters, they are just not necessary. *shrug*
_Pax._
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 24 2012, 03:20 PM) *
I was talking of the minimum necessities you mentioned. As was been previously stated, a Standard Luxury Lifestyle at 30% is 30,000 Nuyen, and it is a Luxury Lifestyle completely, with no splits for Lifestyle Qualities in Runners Companion. I would never let a charadcter with those combinations do such a thing, but that is just me. *shrug*

Not Everyone uses the Runners Companion rules for their lifestyles. Many of my characters (for example) do not, as there is generally no need for it.

I repeat: duh.

Seriously, all that literally "goes without saying". Clearly, those are optional rules. Clearly, sub-parts of that optional rule only apply when using said optional rule. And clearly, not everyone will useit.

So ... again ... duh?
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