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nicktheviking
Given a PhysAd with 5 AGI, I understand he can ready 2 throwing knives per "ready weapon" action, but how many can he throw in a simple action?
ggodo
One.
Stahlseele
Two hands?
Should be able to throw 2 then.
But the Pool gets split as with doing multiple gun attacks or multiple close combat attacks i think.
Not so sure though, but i see no reason why this should be different from other attacks. .
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 26 2012, 05:29 PM) *
Two hands?
Should be able to throw 2 then.
But the Pool gets split as with doing multiple gun attacks or multiple close combat attacks i think.
Not so sure though, but i see no reason why this should be different from other attacks. .


We allow split dice pools for multiple Knives/Shuriken.
Of course, you need to have them all prepared first. smile.gif

Generally, those who use this throw 2 with the Primary Hand (1st Simple Action), and an additional 2 with the Off Hand (2nd Simple Action). 2 Simple Actions, with 2 attacks per hand, split two ways each. smile.gif

My Ninja could throw 4 each hand (total of 8 Agility to ready weapons), but the split is pretty weird. 8 Agility, 2 Skill = 10 Dice. So Base 2, 2, 3, 3 with Specialty it goes to 4,4,5,5. Assuming they are all targeted on a single target. Split targets, the pool gets smaller, of course. Not stellar for competant Opposition, but against mooks, it is not all that bad. I generally stuck with readying 8 weapons, and then targeting 4 mooks, 2 with each simple action for a 7/5 split each. That way I could attack for two passes prior to readying weapons again.
thorya
I'll give the jerk answer. A hundred or so, just duck tape em all together or put them in a box. smile.gif
DenverDoc
I would think you could throw one but it does seem logical to allow one per hand accounting for off hand penalty and split dice pool and of course any other modifiers such as the additional target penalty.
StealthSigma
By the rules, the only weapons that you may dual-wield are pistols and SMGs. Yes. Just read through the melee combat section and there's no rules regarding using a second weapon, only attacking with the off hand and projectile rules only talk about grenades even though projectiles include bows/crossbows/throwing weapons.

So the only mundane ways to attack more than one opponent with a simple action are:
1. Dual wield pistols/SMGs and split the dice pool.
2. Be in melee combat and have multiple opponents near you, each within 1m of each other and split your dice pool.
3. Use an AoE weapon.
Stingray
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 29 2012, 03:01 PM) *
By the rules, the only weapons that you may dual-wield are pistols and SMGs. Yes. Just read through the melee combat section and there's no rules regarding using a second weapon, only attacking with the off hand and projectile rules only talk about grenades even though projectiles include bows/crossbows/throwing weapons.

So the only mundane ways to attack more than one opponent with a simple action are:
1. Dual wield pistols/SMGs and split the dice pool.
2. Be in melee combat and have multiple opponents near you, each within 1m of each other and split your dice pool.
3. Use an AoE weapon.

..don't forget machine pistols, they can be dual-wielded..
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Stingray @ Oct 29 2012, 08:12 AM) *
..don't forget machine pistols, they can be dual-wielded..


There's two ways to read pistols both of which apply to machine pistols. Either pistols means any weapon which applies the pistols skill or any weapon which is called a pistol, that includes holdouts/light/heavy/machine.
Stingray
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 29 2012, 02:27 PM) *
There's two ways to read pistols both of which apply to machine pistols. Either pistols means any weapon which applies the pistols skill or any weapon which is called a pistol, that includes holdouts/light/heavy/machine.

..machine pistols use Automatics skill, not pistols..
pistols skill ( Tasers,Hold-outs,Light pistols, and Heavy Pistols..)
The Jopp
Lets see: Ready Action = Equal to one-half Agility per ready weapon action
Ready Weapon = Simple action

Multi-Tasking = 2 Free Actions when not DIRECTLY involved in combat
Nimble Fingers = No bonus but should perhaps give SOMETHING like change clip = draw shuriken
Quick Draw = Ready Weapon Action

So with an Agility of 10 you can draw 5 small throwing weapons TOTAL regardless of hands.

I would say that Nimble Fingers alone or combined with multi tasking should give a ready weapon action in regards to small thrown weapons.
Stahlseele
yes, that's DRAWING.
but how about THROW?
can you throw all 5 knives, even if you only have one hand?
and if you can throw all 5 with one hand, do you divide the pool by 5 or not at all, because it's only one hand?
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 29 2012, 10:39 AM) *
yes, that's DRAWING.
but how about THROW?
can you throw all 5 knives, even if you only have one hand?
and if you can throw all 5 with one hand, do you divide the pool by 5 or not at all, because it's only one hand?


RAW is 1.

Of course, these are the same rules that don't call out the action to fire a bow.
NiL_FisK_Urd
QUOTE (ARS @ p.163)
Only SMG or smaller-sized weapons that can be fired with a Simple Action can be fired simultaneously.

Throwing knife:
SMG or smaller-sized: check
Operates with a Simple Action: check
Can be "fired": debateable, i would say throwing a weapon counts as firing.

As to how many can be thrown: I would say a maximum of 4 knifes per hand, and the dice-pool is split among the weapons, not among the hands ^^
The Jopp
QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Oct 29 2012, 04:11 PM) *
As to how many can be thrown: I would say a maximum of 4 knifes per hand, and the dice-pool is split among the weapons, not among the hands ^^


I would say as many as you can Ready Weapon.

If you can Ready 2, you can throw 2.

It would at least be a simple ruling.
phlapjack77
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Oct 30 2012, 12:11 AM) *
I would say as many as you can Ready Weapon.

If you can Ready 2, you can throw 2.

It would at least be a simple ruling.

If multiple knives are thrown as one simple action, they should have to be all be at the same target
NiL_FisK_Urd
If you throw them with one hand, they should have the same or very near targets, if you throw with 2 hands, anything goes. The "Multiple Targets" modifier still applies, and at -2 per additional target and split dice pools you have a hard time hitting anything.
Raiden
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 29 2012, 07:01 AM) *
By the rules, the only weapons that you may dual-wield are pistols and SMGs. Yes. Just read through the melee combat section and there's no rules regarding using a second weapon, only attacking with the off hand and projectile rules only talk about grenades even though projectiles include bows/crossbows/throwing weapons.

So the only mundane ways to attack more than one opponent with a simple action are:
1. Dual wield pistols/SMGs and split the dice pool.
2. Be in melee combat and have multiple opponents near you, each within 1m of each other and split your dice pool.
3. Use an AoE weapon.


aresnal talks alot about dual wielding melee weapons and a bunch of other nifty things

EDIT: from what I read, it seems that anything considered to be a reach of 1 can be dual weilded... with a few exceptions .
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Raiden @ Oct 30 2012, 02:56 AM) *
aresnal talks alot about dual wielding melee weapons and a bunch of other nifty things

EDIT: from what I read, it seems that anything considered to be a reach of 1 can be dual weilded... with a few exceptions .


And reach is a melee modifier, it has no bearing on throwing weapons.
NiL_FisK_Urd
May i point to post #14 in this thread ...
The Jopp
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Oct 30 2012, 03:41 AM) *
If multiple knives are thrown as one simple action, they should have to be all be at the same target


I would also count it as a 'burst' attack and with a standard recoil modifier of -1 for SA actions in the next action.

Merely to represent that your body has moved with the throw and affects your next throws aim.

So a burst attack would be 1+Extra Knives. So 5 knives would be STR/2+4 as base damage.
StealthSigma
QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Oct 30 2012, 07:25 AM) *
May i point to post #14 in this thread ...


The book does make a distinction between throwing and firing grenades. Projectile weapons except grenades have extremely poor coverage in the rules. Bows in particular don't really have an action that governs making an attack with them and neither bows nor thrown weapons (except grenades) have rules regarding making the actual attack. Yes, this means you can throw a throwing weapon as a simple action, but unless it's a grenade it won't serve much purpose without houseruling.

Now, how my group plays with throwing weapons is you can ready agility/2 throwing knives but you may only throw 1 per hand at a time so at most you may throw 2 in a simple action (baring anything strange). In that case you're splitting the pool for each additional hand.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 30 2012, 04:45 AM) *
Now, how my group plays with throwing weapons is you can ready agility/2 throwing knives but you may only throw 1 per hand at a time so at most you may throw 2 in a simple action (baring anything strange). In that case you're splitting the pool for each additional hand.


But only if you throw them with the same action, I would guess, Yes?
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 30 2012, 04:14 PM) *
But only if you throw them with the same action, I would guess, Yes?


Of course.
phlapjack77
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Oct 30 2012, 07:42 PM) *
I would also count it as a 'burst' attack and with a standard recoil modifier of -1 for SA actions in the next action.

Merely to represent that your body has moved with the throw and affects your next throws aim.

So a burst attack would be 1+Extra Knives. So 5 knives would be STR/2+4 as base damage.

I sorta like this idea, dovetails nicely with the existing burst rules...

BUT I would be worried about damage getting really high. A throwing adept can already get really high damage, this just pads that even more. Although I guess throwing adepts could use help so they're not one-trick ponies in the first place...
ZeroPoint
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 30 2012, 07:45 AM) *
The book does make a distinction between throwing and firing grenades. Projectile weapons except grenades have extremely poor coverage in the rules. Bows in particular don't really have an action that governs making an attack with them and neither bows nor thrown weapons (except grenades) have rules regarding making the actual attack. Yes, this means you can throw a throwing weapon as a simple action, but unless it's a grenade it won't serve much purpose without houseruling.

Now, how my group plays with throwing weapons is you can ready agility/2 throwing knives but you may only throw 1 per hand at a time so at most you may throw 2 in a simple action (baring anything strange). In that case you're splitting the pool for each additional hand.


Actually, that was not my ruling. My original ruling was that you could throw multiple knives with one hand, but all knives had to be directed at the same target, and dice was split up among the number of knives thrown in a single simple action, OR you could throw one with each hand, Dice pool split as normal, but in this case you could target multiple meat bags.

On further thought on the subject, I think something like The Jopp's suggestion regarding burst fire may be a better solution. I wouldn't apply a penalty on subsequent attacks (recoil), but putting a -1 DP penalty for each extra knife thrown from a single hand would be appropriate. And providing a limit to the number of knives thrown in a "burst" to the number that would be normally readied. So someone with Strength and Agility of 8 could ready 4 knives, and throw all 4 of them with one hand at a single target, dealing (8/2 + 1) + 3 = 8 + net hits and suffer a -3 to the attack roll.
DMiller
Using the burst rules... Would you allow a wide burst?

-D
The Jopp
QUOTE (DMiller @ Nov 1 2012, 09:15 AM) *
Using the burst rules... Would you allow a wide burst?

-D


Doesn't sound to far fetched.

You throw them in a wide arc with less knives hitting the target but covering a wide area.
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