Interesting article on the BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20135674

It did give me ideas...

Where's the Lesbian Elf Strippers?

In disguise.

So Robots?

It's always dissapointing to find out your Lesian elf stripper-ninjas are actually exploding fembots.

With Bust Machine-gun and Hip Katana?

Somehow, I felt very sad after reading the article.

Welp... I guess reality does ensue after all.

WARNING: TVTROPES LINK DETECTED! TVTROPES WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE! WARNING!

Something tells me it already has your Shadowdragon.

I have two thoughts on the article.
First of all... I can't help but be fascinated of the very down to earth outlook, embracing the fact that times have changed rather then clinging on to the old out of sheer bullheadedness... There's something to be learned from that.

Second... It would be a very ninja thing to convince people that there will be no more ninja wouldn't it?

... I hadn't thought of that. Yes. Yes it would.

Seriously, put the disclaimers first people. I just spent two hours there... On one page.

This is not an uncommon thought process among some older Japanese masters. For example, the late Mitsunari Kanai Sensei was an influential aikido teacher in the US. He was known to be skilled in the Japanese art of swordmaking but (as I heard it) refused to teach any of his students because he thought it had no place in the current era.

That just reminded me of some panels / a scene from Watchmen, where Dr. Jonathan "Doctor Manhattan" Osterman's dad throws the watch parts out the window, declaring that in an atomic age his profession is obsolete and didn't want his son to learn his trade, IIRC.

And then I realize nothing actually ever goes obsolete, it just becomes niche. And an online world wide market can allow niches to thrive possibly. More than likely those ninjas are not the last, just historical ones are. Sometimes, the old ways are the best ways because they are time tested, you know they work. Plenty of special forces types in the world that could still be considered modern day ninjas.

There is a good paying job for anyone who is the best or among the best in the world in virtually every skill. For example, coopers - a guy who makes wooden barrels. Jack Daniels employs several. You can make a living as a whip maker or carriage wheel maker, if you are good enough and have the right contacts. It's part of why these skills don't quite die out.

But it's pretty hard actually become one of the very best in the entire world at a given skill, so it's generally a pretty bad career choice to choose a career where there are say 20 people in the world who can make a living at it.

This mindset actually makes me angry. Who are they to determine what is and is not needed in this world anymore? The loss of knowledge is always a dark stain on humanity's history. They essentially try to romanticize their own selfish outlook on the world, and the world actually becomes a worse place for it. It's entirely possible that there's a ninja technique that would dramatically change the way physical therapy or rehabilitation is done, or a swordmaking technique that would simply and change the method by which surgical scalpels or industrial equipment is manufactured. People like that do not know how their knowledge could impact the world, and declaring their art or trade "worthless" because it's "not needed anymore" is not only a selfish statement, but a close-minded and ignorant one.

I think you might be doing some romanticising of your own Neraph
I do distaste the intentional destruction of knowledge, but you might be overestimating the impact that this knowledge would have in a world with advanced computer modeling, precision laser instruments, nanotechnology and genetics mapping

We don't know, and we probably won't know. That's my entire point - we wouldn't be able to know unless these are actually explored and innovated.

As a side note, those two grandmasters stating that they won't name a successor doesn't mean that someone won't continue to teach. It would simply mean that the continuation would be informal. Although I suspect that the grandmasters did not teach all their tricks to the other masters.

Note how the first quoted Grandmaster said that he first believed he was being taught to be a thief. There may be ethical concerns involved as well as a belief in obsolescence. This is, after all, the art of the ninja we're talking about - the arts of going about unseen and of murdering people rather horribly.

The only "legitimate" consumers of those techniques may be governments, and he may not wish to see his clan's techniques turned into those of the JSDF and whatever spying agencies Japan has; he may believe (Rightly or wrongly,) that the legitimate consumers of his teachings are already in possession of superior training (they definitely have superior technology,) and his techniques can only serve to empower those who should not be empowered - freelance spies and assassins, which he may believe the world no longer has any need for and which will be poorer off for having.


On the other hand, you're not wholly wrong in that looking into ancient techniques can yield startlingly effective modern benefits. For instance, in the notoriously earthquake prone country of Japan, someone eventually noticed that while old houses and the like tended to topple quite easily, surprisingly-ancient Shinto shrines tended to stay standing; they investigated this and found out that those enormously tall pagodas had been constructed with a massive tree trunk suspended on the inside, floating freely inside the structure save for being affixed at the bottom. I don't pretend to recall, much less be able to explain, the physics behind it, but it sure as hell works, and was easily adapted by putting huge, free-floating steel pillars inside modern skyscrapers. Also, I believe Japanese swordmaking techniques has also already been applied to scalpel technology. It's unlikely that any further improvements will come from secrets in the hands of the Ninja clans, as they were not really the katana-owning badass honorless sneaky samurai that Western media makes them out to be (the word for that is Ronin,) but were, indeed, poor. See also: the Grandmaster of the clan works a day job as an engineer.

The times are indeed a-changing, and there may indeed be no place for the Ninja in the 21st century. I'd say that living Ninja Grandmasters are probably in a better position to state so with authority than you or I.


Though, I do kind of hope that he does meet with medical professionals to go over those ancient medicines and poisons he mentioned. Those might legitimately be useful to modern society, and it's entirely possible they've escaped medical knowledge until now, especially if the Clan had a vested interest in suppressing such knowledge getting out even as late as fifty or a hundred years ago.

Among swords, the Katana is one of (if not the best) & most well designed blade in existence, as we come to create better materials & find reasons to use melee weaponry, the Katanas form will remain the best until such a time as someone is capable of creating something better.

Many will argue that melee weapons of that size are no longer useful, but the skill to craft & the knowledge & ability to use them is not something we should ever forget.

Single edged slashing swords are so 13th century.

@Nath:
And next time your PC fight Mitsuhama security forces:
"Surrender now! We've got a Cease&Desist order for you on your fighting style"

Yeah. The breathing technique they talked about to aid in running would be ground-breaking in sports and rehabilitation. I wonder what other stretches and fitness techniques would be similarly important to improved fitness or physical therapy. And then there's probably a wealth of information to be taken from their apothecary practices.

And yes, their espionage and stealth techniques would be very useful in the still-active espionage of governments. Hell, things like MCMAP could probably benefit from some of their knowledge - they've already assimilated Karate, Muy-Thai, Tae-Kwon-Do, and others.

You work under the assumption that this knowledge somehow exists in a vacuum and no other sources developed similar/superior techniques ...

They may not want such techniques getting out. If the power to split the atom had yielded no possible uses except mass devastation, I bet a lot of the Manhattan Project scientists would have wished they could take the knowledge of it to the grave.

That's probably why they're not naming a new Grandmaster. And I think it is selfish and small-minded.

Glad I read that a second time was about to be like wait what...?

Why? Just curious is all.

I would point out that someone who spent their entire life learning arts ultimately designed to kill and maim people probably has a perspective on such things that many of us will never understand. Just saying.

Don't forget Spying and stealing and sabotage. To be honest, Ninja weren't ancient superhuman mystical uber-warriors. They were peasant clans who developed some basic useful black ops skills and hired themselves out to the nobility, who were above that sort of thing. Like most legends, they grow in the telling. Your average ninja was less likely to be the black-pajama-sword-wielding-death-shadow-on-wings, and more likely to be the servant who drew your bath and listened in on your conversation (the lower class is socially invisible, after all).

It's like the katana mystique. The mysterious East developed the art of folding steel many many times to make a sword because their steel was not very good in bulk. They had to fold the strips of soft steel and rigid steel to keep the sword from being too brittle. They didn't exactly have a big metal supply compared to Europe. When the Arab, Moor and Spanish swordmakers stole the idea via the trade routes, they were able to improve on it using higher quality materials - which was necessary, given the proliferation of metal armor in Europe. A good Damascus or Toledo blade was tough and flexible.

Ninja and samurai benefit from the "out of town" rule: An expert is a guy from out of town with a briefcase. Thats a useful little thing to remember in Shadowrun, too. Their legend continues to grow because it's a cool image. And the Rule of Cool is fun.

Am using this.

I saw the article when it came out.the irony is that just v=because his clan is folding, doesn't mean there are no ninjas, we just might not know about them. Seriously the region best known for htem Iwa I think it was, fell under the control of Tokugawa and their spying was credited with his making the final constrictions needed to end the warring state period. They were known to be his scouts but pretty much disappeared after his 1603 victory.

Anote about the famous uniform is thought to me a misinterpretted image form a wood block that looks like what we think of as a ninja costume, but it has been suggested the dark clothing and hood were menat to represent they were unseen, not how they really dressed while 'working' infact as psies they would have dressed to blend in.

I think the lore, which may be aporyphica, is to the effect as follows:

The "Pajama Ninja" we think of as a ninja outfit is in fact an archaic kabuki theater stagehand's outfit. It's a pajama ninja outfit because it's nearly invisible in a darkened theater, and these stagehands would be running around even while the performers were performing. They were intentionally supposed to be "unseen," and if you saw one, you were supposed to pretend he was unseen.

So to represent a ninja in the theater, what they would do is dress the ninja in the stagehand's outfit, thus surprising everyone when a "stagehand" steps forward and knifes a leading actor - he got ninja'd! He was invisible until the moment he struck not because his stealth skill was superhuman, and not because his outfit's camouflage made him practically invisible; he was invisible because you didn't expect him to be a ninja, you didn't expect him to have a part in the play, until he struck suddenly and without warning.

Why am I thinking of Vetinari from "Night Watch"?

right SD, in japanese art something 'black' was 'unseen' so an illustration of someone in the black pajamas was recognized by the average viewer as 'not being seen' but the symbolism of that got lost along the way and now even Japanes peopel seem to think they dressed like that all the time.

DLN's grandfather gave her a book on ninjas with pictures from modern 'museums' with a lot of women dressed in the role, but often in costumes that are pink or purple (i'm not kidding.)

And who know what techniques the Japanese version of OSS/CIA use as well. I am sure some of the lore/techniques of the ninja's is still being used by them and others. Would they call themselves ninja's? No, just your run of the mill spies, asassins, and sabotuers.

I think the point may be that these grandmasters still have some techniques/lore/tricks up their sleeves which are not known to the spysassinotuer community, and which they, for what I imagine are ethical reasons, do not wish to see continue in the world, or pass into those hands.

What one man figured out a few hundred years ago, another man has probably also discovered. The wisdom of the ancients ain't all that special.

Tell that to the folks who figured out how to make Damascus Steel again. The real stuff, not what was copyrighted/patented as "Damascus Steel".

That's not a fair comparison and you know it Canray

Who ever said I was fair?

This Mirror on the Wall thinks you're pretty enough.

Just how high is that mirror?

"mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN!"