DnDer
Dec 1 2012, 01:19 AM
Flipping through the pages of SR4a, and not finding what I want to know about medical treatment. Healing is abstract enough, but there are comments (especially about cyberlimbs, that indicate "tests using this limb") that make me think there's some kind of sytem for location-based injuries.
GM says that the damage to a player's hand means it's broken, and is -1 on all tests requiring hands until the bones heal.
Doc Wagon could, sure, set the bones... and stim patches can negate stun damage... But is there a system for specific injuries and how long it would take to heal such a wound?
Lionhearted
Dec 1 2012, 02:40 AM
Arsenal Augmentation got an entire chapter dedicated to it
Also by default there is no specific body part injury system, an injury is an injury its indicated with boxes in your damage track and it disappears when you heal through medicine/first aid/rest/magic. Breaking bones and ruptured spleens are optional add on rules from augmentation
Neraph
Dec 2 2012, 10:19 PM
Not only that, but you can go from 3 boxes of Physical Damage Overflow to perfect health in a day - Magical Healing, First Aid, then Medicine. I had a character go to the hospital from that kind of scenario and he left the hospital in two days, and he only had a Body of 3, so my natural Healing Test wasn't the reason. The point being that "long term" is a wildly subjective term.
"Broken bones" and such are abstracted best by simply damage - for example, two damage is probably not a broken bone (or at least not one that matters much). Three + damage would be a broken hand or foot, and 9+ would be a severe break. Considering that 3-5 damage carries a -1 penalty and 9-11 has a -3, the simple method the game itself already has is best, with the break being only flavor added to the already-present mechanics.
7P damage received from a blunt attack - broken clavicle or arm (and a -2 penalty on all Tests). 9P damage received from a car crash - multiple broken bones (and a -3 penalty on all Tests).
Lionhearted
Dec 2 2012, 10:28 PM
You can't really abstract that way though, a broken leg is more then a inconvenience, it's complete unable to support you standing up. The severe wound tables exist for players that wish a more "realistic" approach. Otherwise just assume that the future works on Hollywood logic and a car crash is something you just brush off.
Unless you crash into an elk ofc...
Neraph
Dec 2 2012, 10:54 PM
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Dec 2 2012, 04:28 PM)
You can't really abstract that way though, a broken leg is more then a inconvenience, it's complete unable to support you standing up. The severe wound tables exist for players that wish a more "realistic" approach. Otherwise just assume that the future works on Hollywood logic and a car crash is something you just brush off.
Unless you crash into an elk ofc...
There are so many different kinds of a break, though. Is it a hairline fracture, a clean break, a jagged break, multiple breaks, or a compound fracture? You can walk on a hairline fracture, but not on a compound.
ShadowDragon8685
Dec 3 2012, 05:01 AM
Honestly, I'd save major injuries for situations where the players invoke the Hand of God to survive a fatal hit. Anything else is just a flesh wound, something they can heal in a few days, or hours, depending on their access to the full clusterfuck of magic, first aid, then expert medical care. I had a player recover from a Manabolt that put him into his Dying boxes well enough to fight (if need be) in two hours (up to only -2 boxes,) from magic and first aid, and fully healed by the next morning.
Don't become the kind of GM who inflicts extra difficulties on the players above and beyond what the damage resolution rules say they suffer in the name of "realism." Remember that such rules only exist to the detriment of your players, because NPCs who find themselves in such a scrape do not matter - important ones will have access to the best treatment nuyen and favors can buy, unimportant ones are literally disposable.
All4BigGuns
Dec 3 2012, 05:25 AM
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Dec 2 2012, 11:01 PM)
Honestly, I'd save major injuries for situations where the players invoke the Hand of God to survive a fatal hit. Anything else is just a flesh wound, something they can heal in a few days, or hours, depending on their access to the full clusterfuck of magic, first aid, then expert medical care.
Any team with the most recent rigger character I built gets two of the three with the Valkyrie module in his Appaloosa.
Lionhearted
Dec 3 2012, 01:33 PM
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 2 2012, 11:54 PM)
There are so many different kinds of a break, though. Is it a hairline fracture, a clean break, a jagged break, multiple breaks, or a compound fracture? You can walk on a hairline fracture, but not on a compound.
I assumed you only meant broken bones, a fracture and a break isn't the same thing in my book
Neraph
Dec 3 2012, 02:48 PM
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Dec 3 2012, 07:33 AM)
I assumed you only meant broken bones, a fracture and a break isn't the same thing in my book
Well, medically it's the same thing. Your book doesn't follow medical knowledge then.
Lionhearted
Dec 3 2012, 02:50 PM
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 3 2012, 03:48 PM)
Well, medically it's the same thing. Your book doesn't follow medical knowledge then.
I'm gonna say lost in translation on this one
Neraph
Dec 3 2012, 02:55 PM
Medically speaking a fracture is a break. So, when you said that a fracture isn't a break in your book, I'm saying your book isn't medically accurate.
As another example, I could state that anything past the knees in women's fashion is a dress, and anything above the knees is a skirt, but the actual definition of a skirt is a single piece of clothing that goes from the waist down, and a dress is a single, fully covering piece of clothing. In "my book" some skirts would be considered dresses and some dresses called skirts, but then I'd be wrong.
Lionhearted
Dec 3 2012, 03:30 PM
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 3 2012, 03:55 PM)
Medically speaking a fracture is a break. So, when you said that a fracture isn't a break in your book, I'm saying your book isn't medically accurate.
Turns out, atleast according to wikipedia that a break isn't a medical term at all. I learned something new today
What I was saying however is that over here an complete fracture is always refered to as a break and I have never heard it refered to as a fracture not even by MDs. Technically I was wrong, but it may just be a difference in
common terminology between languages.
Neraph
Dec 3 2012, 05:45 PM
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Dec 3 2012, 09:30 AM)
Turns out, atleast according to wikipedia that a break isn't a medical term at all. I learned something new today
What I was saying however is that over here an complete fracture is always refered to as a break and I have never heard it refered to as a fracture not even by MDs. Technically I was wrong, but it may just be
a difference in common terminology between languages.
That's what was missing. I thought you were simply using a turn of phrase, when in reality you do actually speak a different language. Your english really is impeccable. Sorry.
EDIT: Changed the apology because I noticed you're in Scandinavia, not Germany. Doh!
Lionhearted
Dec 3 2012, 05:50 PM
They don't speak english as a first language in Germany either, in fact last time I was there they still dubbed everything to German. Charlie Sheen with a gruff german voice makes Hot shots even more hilarious although...
On second thought, I don't know what the edit was about... But german Charlie Sheen is still hilarious.
bannockburn
Dec 3 2012, 10:42 PM
Point of interest: A fraktur (from the latin, btw) is the same thing as a complete break in German
At least in medical language.
On Topic: Sometimes I just tell my players where they are hit. They can decide themselves if this affects their roleplaying any. Usually it does, without getting ruleswise. I do check for severe injuries, though, as offered in Augmentation
Neraph
Dec 4 2012, 12:33 AM
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Dec 3 2012, 11:50 AM)
They don't speak english as a first language in Germany either, in fact last time I was there they still dubbed everything to German. Charlie Sheen with a gruff german voice makes Hot shots even more hilarious although...
On second thought, I don't know what the edit was about... But german Charlie Sheen is still hilarious.
I said "sorry" in German.
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