Full Version: Presidential Assassin 2016
I know that according to Canon (and double checked with Ancient - so thats good enough for me) President Garrety was assassinated in 2016 by a William Springer.
Other Presidents/Prime Ministers were assassinated that year also. Springer was the only one who got away.
Has anyone ever used this or played this out in a story arc, or discovered something about the assassination.
I am looking for ideas, but am quite keen on "he was got out of the way so that Ares could buy NASA". Later Damien Knight purchases Ares. Knight used to work for the NSA as David Gavilian. and then going somewhere from there..........
any thoughts or suggestions welcome.
Heh, Damien Knight, aka David Gavilan, aka William Springer...
Something developed along those lines?
Knight could have gone underground after the assassination (he would be in his early 20's at this point), then joined up with the military using a false id or some such, gets recruited into the NSA, things snowball and viola!
Of course, Knight would have only been a pawn of Dunklezahns!!!! or some such crazy idea. Who knows?
I suppose that might be a little over the top, even for cheesy metaplot stuff, but it sure sounds fun!
Something developed along those lines?
Knight could have gone underground after the assassination (he would be in his early 20's at this point), then joined up with the military using a false id or some such, gets recruited into the NSA, things snowball and viola!
Of course, Knight would have only been a pawn of Dunklezahns!!!! or some such crazy idea. Who knows?
I suppose that might be a little over the top, even for cheesy metaplot stuff, but it sure sounds fun!
| QUOTE (Sir Dante) |
| I know that according to Canon (and double checked with Ancient - so thats good enough for me) President Garrety was assassinated in 2016 by a William Springer. Other Presidents/Prime Ministers were assassinated that year also. Springer was the only one who got away. Has anyone ever used this or played this out in a story arc, or discovered something about the assassination. |
I used it as the first attempt by the bugs to take over the world. They were able to possess these leaders. The plot was found out, and the assassinations followed.
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| I used it as the first attempt by the bugs to take over the world. They were able to possess these leaders. The plot was found out, and the assassinations followed. |
Now that's a pretty good way to handle it. Did you develop the idea any further, or just leave it at that?
Would the Invae have been around in 2016?
My first idea was to link it to the Awakened countries. Chaning the people heading USA, Russia and UK helped the events that lead to the creation of NAN and Tir Tairngire, Yakut and Tir na nOg. Of course it'd look better if the Brazilian and South African head of state have been killed instead of the Israelian PM.
My second idea was to link it to the Ghost Dance. The big scale magic that will cause a lot of problem had been actually taught under different form to several groups: Howling Coyote's ghost dancers, IRA spike babies, remnants of Nazi/KGB psychic studies in Russia and hardcore members of the Israeli ultra-orthodox party Shas with kabbalistic knowledge. Some occult organization tried to warn them during a secret summit, but all of them laughed and left. To make the point, they killed the four leaders. But the organization gave its assassins flawed escape plans, and after they got killed they used ritual magic to animate their bodies at the morgue and deliver a message to their target successor. But Springer understood it was a suicide mission and set up his own evasion plan. While the other governments suddenly took softer stance with their opponents, new US President Jarman decided to exterminate the Amerindians, making the Ghost Dance unavoidable. Or something like that.
My second idea was to link it to the Ghost Dance. The big scale magic that will cause a lot of problem had been actually taught under different form to several groups: Howling Coyote's ghost dancers, IRA spike babies, remnants of Nazi/KGB psychic studies in Russia and hardcore members of the Israeli ultra-orthodox party Shas with kabbalistic knowledge. Some occult organization tried to warn them during a secret summit, but all of them laughed and left. To make the point, they killed the four leaders. But the organization gave its assassins flawed escape plans, and after they got killed they used ritual magic to animate their bodies at the morgue and deliver a message to their target successor. But Springer understood it was a suicide mission and set up his own evasion plan. While the other governments suddenly took softer stance with their opponents, new US President Jarman decided to exterminate the Amerindians, making the Ghost Dance unavoidable. Or something like that.
William springer? Jerry's brother?
| QUOTE (Hot Wheels @ Apr 21 2004, 11:44 PM) |
| William springer? Jerry's brother? |
That was the third idea...
Learn more about the individual that will kill President Garrety, William Springer. He studied computer science, plays Heroclix and goes to the New Life Evangelical Free Church. that's clearly the profile of a psychotic lone killer.
| QUOTE (Connor) |
| Knight could have gone underground after the assassination (he would be in his early 20's at this point), then joined up with the military using a false id or some such, gets recruited into the NSA, things snowball and viola! |
How'd he pass the background investigation? Those things are intrusive as hell.
| QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) | ||
How'd he pass the background investigation? Those things are intrusive as hell. |
Well, it wasn't meant to be serious. I was just killing some time at work.
| QUOTE (Req) |
| Would the Invae have been around in 2016? |
No, but that's ok for some people.
~J
| QUOTE (Sir Dante) |
| I am looking for ideas, but am quite keen on "he was got out of the way so that Ares could buy NASA". Later Damien Knight purchases Ares. Knight used to work for the NSA as David Gavilian. and then going somewhere from there.......... |
I dunno. Knight seems to show some pro-American urges now and then, in that, "I know what's best for the US, so it shall do as I say" kind of megacorp way.
Besides, at the time, there were a lot of privatizations going on, right? Would there have been all that much objection from President Garrety to the sale of NASA?
Rather, getting rid of Garrety allows an even stupider and more anti-Native American President into office and screws the US over even worse by stiffening the Native American resolve. IMO, the entire Native American revolt, SAIM, NAN *and* the US responses seems very orchestrated. Corporations commit acts precisely designed to piss off natives (Resource Rush) in ways that wouldn't normally fly, the Native Americans precisely punch US buttons to rouse it into a blind anger (Lone Eagle) so the US keeps doing absolutely the wrong thing (concentration camps, extermination orders).
If someone wanted to break up the US, killing Garrety would just be another useful step along the way. (Why break up the US? Maybe to be rid of the competition and/or threat. For the IE conspiracy angle, it's doubtful the IEs would have a scenic little nation in the Pacific NW if the US was still around. Plenty of reasons, and SR has the power players who could orchestrate it.)
good point. never looked at it like that.
| QUOTE (Connor) | ||
Now that's a pretty good way to handle it. Did you develop the idea any further, or just leave it at that? |
It was part of the background for a powerful NPC. When he became aware of the Universal Brotherhood, he knew what was going on.
| QUOTE | ||
No, but that's ok for some people. ~J |
Where is it stated they weren't, or when they first arrived?
I figure any time after 2011 is enough for magic stuff to exist.
Perhaps a powerful magical event or somesuch opened a gateway long enough for just one insect spirit to sneak through, years before any of the others.
The GM can rationalize almost anything if it helps the story.
Besides, there's a precident for this sort of thing being possible.
The GM can rationalize almost anything if it helps the story.
Besides, there's a precident for this sort of thing being possible.
| QUOTE (tisoz) | ||||
Where is it stated they weren't, or when they first arrived? I figure any time after 2011 is enough for magic stuff to exist. |
The Invae (bug spirits) are supposed to be tied to the magic level in the same way the Enemy (Horrors) are, and Those In The Know viewed the Invae as a sort of harbinger of the Horrors' arrival. Their appearance in 2016, on a large enough scale to orchestrate presidential assassinations, would seem not to make any sense to me.
'Course, in your game, they can be Just Another Kind Of Spirit and that's cool. If you're not really following the Magic Level and Horrors plotline so much, it doesn't really matter. But if you *are* paying attention to the Fourth world stuff, they oughtn't show up so soon without a damn good reason.
-Req, who *almost* knows what he's talking about with this stuff
What's the Fourth World? 
| QUOTE |
| Their appearance in 2016, on a large enough scale to orchestrate presidential assassinations, would seem not to make any sense to me. |
It would only take one insect shaman (you know, the one with the 4 Charisma and the Increase Charisma Force 6 Sustaining focus) to invest three people with bugs. How large a scale is that? That is why the first attempt was to sieze control of governments, then legislate and mandate everything to make it simple to enslave the masses.
Canon states there were horrors treading the earth at this time, so by your reasoning, there were insects among us.
| QUOTE |
| But if you *are* paying attention to the Fourth world stuff, they oughtn't show up so soon without a damn good reason. |
This is the reason I hate metaplots. There is no reason my view of events could not have happened. That point in history is a mystery, it has never been explained. But the majority of people who want to think they have everything figured out, tell me I'm wrong.
But Our theory makes so much more sense, you may say. To that, I would say how much sense did it make for Hestaby to wind up on the Tir Council of Princes? I don't care how you want to rationalize it. It would be like taking your countries worst enemy and making them your leader. Think about any war in history where the country wasn't defeated and the plausability of that happening. Not likely.
| QUOTE (tisoz) | ||||
It would only take one insect shaman (you know, the one with the 4 Charisma and the Increase Charisma Force 6 Sustaining focus) to invest three people with bugs. How large a scale is that? That is why the first attempt was to sieze control of governments, then legislate and mandate everything to make it simple to enslave the masses. Canon states there were horrors treading the earth at this time, so by your reasoning, there were insects among us.
This is the reason I hate metaplots. There is no reason my view of events could not have happened. That point in history is a mystery, it has never been explained. But the majority of people who want to think they have everything figured out, tell me I'm wrong. But Our theory makes so much more sense, you may say. To that, I would say how much sense did it make for Hestaby to wind up on the Tir Council of Princes? I don't care how you want to rationalize it. It would be like taking your countries worst enemy and making them your leader. Think about any war in history where the country wasn't defeated and the plausability of that happening. Not likely. |
Whoa there, tiger. Of course there's no reason your version of events couldn't have happened. Go crazy, I don't care. I would think that, logically, the Invae wouldn't show up until later, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen - it just means it didn't happen in my game.
If you want it to happen that way, something similar to the Bridge supposedly created by the Ghost Dance to the Horror realms could easily have been brought about, only pointing at the Invae realms. Super. And maybe it only happened for long enough for one of 'em to get over and find itself a shaman. Again, great - though the question remains, is the effect of the mana level requirement that the spirits can't be brought over to invest until a certain level is reached? I don't know, no-one's ever said precisely how it works. Personally I like insect spirits in the Aliens kinda games, bughunts. I don't like 'em in the political realm so much - I save that for humans and for the occasional Horror. But that's just me.
But that bit about hating metaplots because other people interpret them differently than you, and tell you so, is just wack. You're not wrong any more than I am. My interpretation of events is that the Invae don't show up yet, that's all.
I say, yeah, my theory does make more sense given what we've been shown in canon, but it ain't like that matters at all in terms of what you can do in your world. Sticking to canon at the expense of a good story is the mark of an uninventive GM.
(A serious question - which other Horrors were around at this point? Other than Ysrthgrthe, and the wraiths? I'm not enough of an expert to know.)
| QUOTE (Cray74) |
| Why break up the US? Maybe to be rid of the competition and/or threat. For the IE conspiracy angle, it's doubtful the IEs would have a scenic little nation in the Pacific NW if the US was still around. Plenty of reasons, and SR has the power players who could orchestrate it. |
You mean that wasn't the point? I have been running off tht assumption for, like, a decade.
| QUOTE (Connor) | ||||
Well, it wasn't meant to be serious. I was just killing some time at work. |
Yeah, I figured as much. I just like being a bastard that way.
Ehhhh. Personally, the way I look at it is, there are some mysteries in the 6th world that we will never know the entire truth behind, and I kinda perfer it that way. Conspiracies last forever.....
Trust no one ya know.
Trust no one ya know.
| QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) | ||
You mean that wasn't the point? I have been running off tht assumption for, like, a decade. |
I mentioned 2 specific reasons to break up the US, and an opened ended third. Which of the reasons are you referring to?
No, it was really Eva Del Harlow!
| QUOTE (Req) |
| Whoa there, tiger. Of course there's no reason your version of events couldn't have happened. Go crazy, I don't care. I would think that, logically |
So now I'm an illogical beast?
The poster asked for what people had done with the assassinations - because it has never been defined in canon. Yes, many people share your Big Conspiracy Theory. The writers and line developer will most probably take the same path, if everyone's griping about other things that get errattaed are any indication. (Called shots, mnemonic enhancer, CED just lately.) I know of no one else that shares my view, and that is fine. It hardly ever comes up in any game I in which I participate.
It's no big deal. What slightly irritates me is people condemning theories that don't agree with theirs or the prevailing theory.
| QUOTE |
| And maybe it only happened for long enough for one of 'em to get over and find itself a shaman. Again, great - though the question remains, is the effect of the mana level requirement that the spirits can't be brought over to invest until a certain level is reached? I don't know, no-one's ever said precisely how it works. |
A Totem wouldn't need to get over, it only needs to call a shaman to its path. In The Secret's of Power trilogy, Verner accidently frees some spirits that were physically restrained (before we had the rules changed to allow for traveling through the earth), one of which was a spider shaped being. It was hinted that the cave contained several imprisoned spirits, any of which could have been an insect or horror.
| QUOTE |
| (A serious question - which other Horrors were around at this point? Other than Ysrthgrthe, and the wraiths? I'm not enough of an expert to know.) |
So all the other scribbles were just heckling?
There was the horror offspring of Ysrthgrthe and Aina who may have taught the native americans the ghost dance during the 5th world. There was apparently enough magic to let bound free spirits survive the 5th world, see Ehran's air elemental in Harlequin. If these were here, I'd bet others could have been, too.
Well, the totality of the quoted statement: That the IEs helped break up the U.S. to further their plans (for global domination! BWAAHAHAHA!) No... seriously, though. I always assumed that they helped with the GGD and NAN and so forth because that way it made it easier for TT to exis; to form a seperate country AND to not be bothered by the interference that the U.S. was still as powerful as it is today IRL (It's a stretch IMO to say 2004 in SR given that by 2004 the U.S. has been hurting pretty badly). Likewise, for them the GGD quickly made people fear magic (which didn't hurt; the California invasion only reinforced this), and at the same time you get the inklings of the formation of TNO, dragons, etc.
edit - jeezus, I don't know what happened to the quote tags, but something's gotten REALLY WEIRD in this post. Sorry.
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A Totem wouldn't need to get over, it only needs to call a shaman to its path. In The Secret's of Power trilogy, Verner accidently frees some spirits that were physically restrained (before we had the rules changed to allow for traveling through the earth), one of which was a spider shaped being. It was hinted that the cave contained several imprisoned spirits, any of which could have been an insect or horror.
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Righty-o. But the beings that insect shamans follow may not be totems, in the typical sense - they do enough things differently from regular totems that I can't be sure. First and foremost, they get summoned to the material plane; I don't know of any other totems that do. Spider, in Secrets of Power, was presented as basically Just Another Totem, though - but doesn't Spider follow different rules than the real bugspirits? I mean, no investing into hosts, etc etc etc? I thought her shamans were normal shamans. Maybe the author was taking some liberties in the interest of a good story?
Maybe I'm wrong, I don't remember where I read this. I've always believed that, while both Totems and Insect Spirits have followers called shamans, the similarity ends there, and that the Invae are actually from a very different place than all the rest of 'em. The fact that Spider in Secrets of Power creates fleshform followers seems to dispute this, though...
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A serious question - which other Horrors were around at this point? Other than Ysrthgrthe, and the wraiths? I'm not enough of an expert to know.)
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So all the other scribbles were just heckling?
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Just about everything I write is just heckling.
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There was the horror offspring of Ysrthgrthe and Aina who may have taught the native americans the ghost dance during the 5th world. There was apparently enough magic to let bound free spirits survive the 5th world, see Ehran's air elemental in Harlequin. If these were here, I'd bet others could have been, too.
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Right, Thais. Forgot about him. I wish someone had explained how Ysrth managed to hang around during the downcycle; someone said it was because he'd become too human, but that don't make any sense. The Wraiths, though, are real Horrors, if Harly was telling the truth in Paranormal Animals...
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A Totem wouldn't need to get over, it only needs to call a shaman to its path. In The Secret's of Power trilogy, Verner accidently frees some spirits that were physically restrained (before we had the rules changed to allow for traveling through the earth), one of which was a spider shaped being. It was hinted that the cave contained several imprisoned spirits, any of which could have been an insect or horror.
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Righty-o. But the beings that insect shamans follow may not be totems, in the typical sense - they do enough things differently from regular totems that I can't be sure. First and foremost, they get summoned to the material plane; I don't know of any other totems that do. Spider, in Secrets of Power, was presented as basically Just Another Totem, though - but doesn't Spider follow different rules than the real bugspirits? I mean, no investing into hosts, etc etc etc? I thought her shamans were normal shamans. Maybe the author was taking some liberties in the interest of a good story?
Maybe I'm wrong, I don't remember where I read this. I've always believed that, while both Totems and Insect Spirits have followers called shamans, the similarity ends there, and that the Invae are actually from a very different place than all the rest of 'em. The fact that Spider in Secrets of Power creates fleshform followers seems to dispute this, though...
*****
A serious question - which other Horrors were around at this point? Other than Ysrthgrthe, and the wraiths? I'm not enough of an expert to know.)
*****
So all the other scribbles were just heckling?
*****
Just about everything I write is just heckling.
*****
There was the horror offspring of Ysrthgrthe and Aina who may have taught the native americans the ghost dance during the 5th world. There was apparently enough magic to let bound free spirits survive the 5th world, see Ehran's air elemental in Harlequin. If these were here, I'd bet others could have been, too.
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Right, Thais. Forgot about him. I wish someone had explained how Ysrth managed to hang around during the downcycle; someone said it was because he'd become too human, but that don't make any sense. The Wraiths, though, are real Horrors, if Harly was telling the truth in Paranormal Animals...
| QUOTE |
| Righty-o. But the beings that insect shamans follow may not be totems, in the typical sense - they do enough things differently from regular totems that I can't be sure. First and foremost, they get summoned to the material plane; I don't know of any other totems that do. Spider, in Secrets of Power, was presented as basically Just Another Totem, though - but doesn't Spider follow different rules than the real bugspirits? I mean, no investing into hosts, etc etc etc? I thought her shamans were normal shamans. Maybe the author was taking some liberties in the interest of a good story? |
Spider doesn't act like other Bug Totems because it's not an Insect. Spider is an arachnid.
(eight legs, dude)I wish we had more info on Thais and Ysgarthe, too. (Yes, I've been to AH's!)
| QUOTE (kevyn668) |
| Spider doesn't act like other Bug Totems because it's not an Insect. Spider is an arachnid. (eight legs, dude) |
Yes, I know that IRL. A biology degree is useful at least that far.
In Secrets of Power , though, she (and/or her shamans, of which at least two are mentioned) create flesh-form insect spirits.I think she's presented as a normal Totem in one of the magic books. Hence the question.
Hmm, I don't remember that part. When did it happen?
The more I think back to it, I'm not sure that Spider in that novel is Spider, the Totem.
I mean it did want to use nukes some how, didn't it? That's not a very Totemish thing to do. Maybe that was Spider's evil twin.
The more I think back to it, I'm not sure that Spider in that novel is Spider, the Totem.
I mean it did want to use nukes some how, didn't it? That's not a very Totemish thing to do. Maybe that was Spider's evil twin.
In the bomb-storage place in Africa, I believe Urdli and Estios face a shaman. Near the end, Sato is turned into what sounds like a flesh-form spirit. Neko faces a number of flesh-forms. All of them are supposed to serve Spider. And the sub that Janice and Ghost and Kham and company break into is filled with flesh-forms, at least one of which was magically active.
I assume Spider was a totem because of the above, and also because during the mini-Ghost Dance in Find Your Own Truth, Twist travels to the "totem realm", meets Dog, and fights Spider. Spider says something about "here in my realm I am strongest" or whatever.
I think that was the novelist's version of an Insect Totem, which happened to be called Spider despite the whole arachnid thang.
I assume Spider was a totem because of the above, and also because during the mini-Ghost Dance in Find Your Own Truth, Twist travels to the "totem realm", meets Dog, and fights Spider. Spider says something about "here in my realm I am strongest" or whatever.
I think that was the novelist's version of an Insect Totem, which happened to be called Spider despite the whole arachnid thang.
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