Hello, first post on Dumpshock.
My gaming group recently started our second game of Shadowrun 4e, and I have a few rules questions, mostly regarding adept powers. As the resident rules lawyer, the GM is relying on me to tell him how to run the game .

First, does the killing hands adept power turn damage done to a subdued opponent from stun to physical?

Do critical strike or elemental strike apply to subdual damage?

Does the +1 damage bonus from critical strike add damage to attacks using elemental strike?

Do hardliner gloves' +1 damage stack with critical strike? Elemental strike?

Do bone density or bone lacing augmentations' damage bonuses stack with any of the above bonuses?

Can an adept wearing a helmet use the cannibalize metamagic? The text doesn't suggest that any additional action is required beyond doing physical melee damage, but implies that the adept should be able to consume the flesh of his enemy.

Could a mage using a firearm in melee range gain the drain bonus for the sacrifice metamagic?

I read on other forum that a focus can have its force increased by paying the difference in material and karma costs for the new force of the focus, but I can't find that anywhere in the source books. Is this a house rule?

And now for a VERY conditional question: If an adept with the power bleed metamagic absorbed the essence drain power from an enemy, could he use it increase his essence to double his natural? Would this essence disappear when the power wore off?

Thanks in advance for any insight into these questions. Most of these are likely to come up in our game. My gaming den is lousy with powergamers.

I would say no, since subdual combat is essentially grappling, not striking.


A more emphatic no, since the two powers are more explicitly tied to striking.


Yes.


By pure RAW (rules as written), it has its own damage code rather that adding +1 to damage. A lot of people use the reasonable house rule that it gives +1 damage, though.


Yes, except for subdual damage (but remember, subdual damage does your Strength as base damage, instead of Strength/2, so it can still do some good damage - but that is also a good reason to be strict about not letting things like critical strike stack with it).


Normally, that metamagic is not available to PCs. By RAW, it works mechanically the same as sacrifice - you just need to wound an opponent, not literally cannibalize him.


No. The range is not really a factor. The rules explicitly call for a melee weapon, and it must draw blood.


I couldn't find it either, so I think so. If anyone wants this, have them show the GM the page where they got it.


I see no reason for the extra Essence to stay after the power wears off.

1. According to the Power if you choose to use killing hands power, your attacks are Physical, if you'd like to do stun, you must choose not to use Killing hands.

2. Critical Strike adds to your overall DV. By the wording of it it would apply to Stun Damage, or Physical, & if you are fighting against astral opponents it will work there as well. Elemental Strike says it directly effects the Killing Hands power so it will only work when using the killing Hands power therefore only when doing Physical damage.

3. The damage will effect the DV of your punch but not the added damage you gain from the elemental effect.

4/5. This is where you'll run into trouble on these forums: Short answer is technically none of the power's stack with the Hardliner's, but some GM's say it doesn't make sense & Houserule that it does, as far as Bone Density, & Bone Lacking, If you spend Essence it stacks.

6. A strict reading of the Cannibalize power suggests that it follows the rules of the Sacrifice Metamagic except where the Cannibalize meta explicitly states.

7. No, the sacrifice Meta states that it must be a melee weapon, a gun in Melee range is STILL a ranged weapon regardless (though a bayonet or something on it could allow it to be used in this case).

8. Not sure about increasing a Focus in the method.

9. This one it seems would depend on what creature you drained it from. Follow the creatures rules at that point for how the power interacts, once you lose the power I imagine you can no longer keep the effects of the power.

These are what I could find for you.

Worse than that, as there's several posters that will flat jump down your throat and insult you for allowing Hardliners to stack with the powers...

yeah I've seen the posts when it comes to Adept powers & hardliners.

It would have the same effect as stabbing them with a knife.


Do you mean, Stun damage? If so ... yes for Critical Strike, "sometimes" for Elemental Strike. The Element chosen for the power, will determine if the damage is LEthal or Stun.


Yes. Elemental Strike changes the "flavor" of damage, not the amount.


Not specified by the rules, but I would still tend to say yes, for the same reason as the previous answer.


Yes, in all cases.


Not all helmets cover the face. Bicycling helmets, for example.

Thanks for the input everyone. It seems that there isn't really a consensus on some of these questions, so I guess we'll have to see how the game plays out. Any additional interpretations are welcome.

Indeed, you should be very careful about letting anyone know if you houserule Hardliner Gloves to work with Critical Strike, or the Shadowrun Inquisition will show up at your house to picket your gaming group and confiscate all your d6s.

I agree. Funfact: Knifes cause only stun damage in subduing combat.

You can actually subdue someone using a knife and your Blades skill.


If you are then to decide to damage him while he is subdued, you will only cause stun damage.


I won't discuss here if that rule makes sense, but if knifes, chainsaws and monowhipes only cause stun damage in subdual combat, then killing hands should probably do so too.

Fun fact, "subduing combat" and "attacking a subdued opponent" are not necessarily the same thing. Remember, while Jim Bob may have you subdued, and may have to spend a Complex Action each IP to maintain that ... his brother Joe Bob is quite free to stick a knife into you, dealing Physical damage in the process. And you can't do anything but sit/lay there and take it, either.

Yes indeed. But in this case, if Joe Bob was using killing hands, it wouldn't be a question that the killing hands deal physical damage. It would be obvious.
And because that would be obvious, I think the question of the OP was rather if Jim Bob could deal physical damage with killing hands while he is still holding you subdued.