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DnDer
The GM asked me to do an audit of this PC. The gear he's carrying around, he feels, has set the game on easy mode and begun to cause balance troubles for the game. The GM is also new to 4a. If I've done my math right during this check, the character wasn't even created with a full 400 BP build, but still has his hands on some gear I see the potential for upsetting.

To the best of my knowledge, this PC has also not spent any of his karma awards, so everything should be at BP expenditure. (I removed things from the sheet that I know were bought after character creation, to help my math.) Obviously, the PC is supposed to be a hacker, considering the purchases, and hopes to branch out into a least a little surveillance rigging (which I know too little about to know if this character even can accomplish yet).

I checked on the Availability Code on all his gear. He has a lot of Rs and a couple Fs, but only one item (collapsible pistol) that crosses the character generation threshold of 12. He also came in under the 50BP limit for cash:karma, so all the purchases seem legit (except the 18-avail pistol). He also records 3 meat passes, and 9 Matrix passes on his initiative counter, which the GM finds suspect -- I'm going to go check that right now, after I post this.


Metatype: Human 0

Quality: Codeslinger 10 10
Quality: Erased 10 10
Quality: Bad Luck -20 -20

Bod 1 0
Agi 1 0
Rea 1 0
Str 1 0
Cha 1 0
Int 1 0
Log 1 0
Wil 1 0

Edge 2 0

Bod 3 20
Agi 4 30
Rea 3 20
Str 2 10
Cha 2 10
Int 4 30
Log 5 40
Wil 5 40

Edge 3 10

Pistols 5 20
Pistols Specialization (Heavy) +2 2
Dodge 3 12
Perception 4 16
Electronics Group 5 20
Cracking Group 6 24
Forgery 3 12
Lock Picking 2 8


(27 Free Knowledge, 3 Remaining)
Language: English (native) n/a n/a
Language: Japanese 5 0
Language: Netspeak 5 0
Language: Spanish 2

(Communications)
Commlink: Fairlight Caliban 8000 n/a
OS: Novatech Navi 1500 n/a
Commlink: Novatech Airwave (purch after gen) n/a
OS: Renraku Ichi (purch after gen) n/a

(Programs Common)
Analyze: 5 500 n/a
Browse: 5 500 n/a
Command: 5 500 n/a
Edit: 5 500 n/a
Encrypt: 5 500 n/a

(Programs Hacking)
Armor: 5 5000 10R
Attack: 5 5000 10R
Blackhammer: 3 1500 6R
Blackout: 4 4000 8R
Databomb: 2 1000 4R
Decrypt: 5 5000 10R
Defuse: 2 1000 4R
ECCM: 3 1500 6R
Exploit: 5 5000 10R
Medic: 4 4000 8R
Sniffer: 4 4000 8R
Spoof: 5 5000 10R
Stealth: 5 5000 10R
Track: 3 1500 6R
Biofilter: 5 (purch after gen?) 10R

(Augmentations)
Cerebral Booster (rat. 3) (.6 essence) 30000 18
Full Arm Cyberlimb (1 Essence) (+15 capacity) 15000 4
Cyberslide (0 Essence) (-8 capacity) 3000 12R
Large Smuggling Compartment (0 Essence) (-5 Capacity) 2000 6
Cybereyes (assume rat. 3) (-.4 Essence) (+12 Capacity) 1000 6
Vision Enhancement (rat. 3) (.1 Essence) (-3 Capacity) 4500 9
Smartlink (.1 Essence) (-3 Capacity) 1000 8R
Vision Magnification (.1 Essence) (-2 Capacity) 1000 4
Lowlight Vision (.1 Essence) (-2 Capacity) 1000 4

(Armor)
Armor Vest (6/4) 600 4
Vitals Protector (+1/+1) 200 4
Leg and Arm Casings (+1/+1) 350 6
Forearm Guards (+0/+1) 200 6
Shin Guards (+0/+1) 150 5

(Weapons)
Ruger Superwarhawk 250 3R
Morrissey Alta 850 7R
Silencer for Alta 200 8F
PSK-3 Collapsible Pistol 2300 18F
Concealable Holster 75 2
240x Regular Ammo 480 2R
60x Stick and Shock 480 5R
Survival Knife 50 n/a

(Gear)
Flashlight 25 n/a
Microflare Launcher 50 n/a
Microflares (x3) 75 n/a
GPS 200 3
Wireclippers 25 n/a
Lockpick Set 300 6R
Maglock (rat. 6) (x2) 1200 n/a
Keycard Copier (rat. 6) 1800 8F
Cellular Glove Molder (rat. 3) 600 12F
Autopicker (rat. 6) 1200 8R
Speedloader (x10) 250 2
Datachip (x49) 49 n/a
AR Gloves 250 n/a

(Drones)
Bust-a-Move (x3) (Purch after gen) n/a
MCT Fly-Spy (Purch after gen) 6

(Vehicle)
Suzuki Mirage 6500 n/a

(Total Cash Spent) 137709 28
Makki
maximum for skillgroups at chargen is 4. Skill groups do cost rating x 10 BP!
cerebral booster R3 is avail 18

for the rest, this seems like one of the most decent and regular builds i've ever seen on dumpshock biggrin.gif
It's the kind of build you actually can play and is not just a funny thought experiment.

The GM's trouble probably is him not knowing the Matrix rules 100%.
DnDer
Okay... forests and trees. I'm seeing a few now. (First note: The DM copied the above sheet to me based off a handwritten sheet. I realize I may not have the whole sheet yet.)

But I now notice there is nothing he has to give him any initiative passes beyond the first. At least, none listed. Second is how he even would go VR, in a hot sim, for those extra initiative passes when he doesn't have the gear (external trodes or any internal ware) to get those numbers.
thorya
QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 13 2013, 04:13 AM) *
9 Matrix passes on his initiative counter, which the GM finds suspect -- I'm going to go check that right now, after I post this.


Surely that's a typo. 9? passes? The most you can have is 5 (4 in meat space) when upgraded as much as possible.
DnDer
QUOTE (Makki @ Jan 13 2013, 03:19 AM) *
maximum for skillgroups at chargen is 4. Skill groups do cost rating x 10 BP!
cerebral booster R3 is avail 18

for the rest, this seems like one of the most decent and regular builds i've ever seen on dumpshock biggrin.gif
It's the kind of build you actually can play and is not just a funny thought experiment.

The GM's trouble probably is him not knowing the Matrix rules 100%.


Fixing the skill group math puts him at 418. Excellent. Well, no excellent... But it tells me he HAS spent some of his karma rewards, I bet. Probably in forgery and lockpicking, because I think he picked up the picker and B&E stuff before - or during - our most recent run.

(Keeping books closed during a game, except for looking up rules, seems like a good idea. I think he was buying "during downtime," and nobody was checking on availability numbers.)

Our GM's issue hasn't been Matrix rules as bad, yet... Mostly lots of data searches, but not a lot of action outside of meatspace. The most recent challenge was a B&E challenge, as we tried to secure a safehouse vantage point across from a cartel stash house, and the GM is concerned how he was able to bypass most things with little to no challenge. There are a couple other incidents, but breaking out the autopicker and throwing 12 dice out of nowhere to pop doors on everything, was what made him stop and ask for an audit, along with the massive list of (every!) program on the matrix list.
bannockburn
I haven't recalculated it all, but some glaring things:
1.) He can't have the electronics and cracking skillgroups at 5 and 6, as those are restricted to rating 4 at creation. Also, it seems they are paid at normal skill prices, not group prices. The cost would be 40 each at rating 4.
2.) There is nothing justifying 3 meat IP, and the absolute max you can get in the matrix is 5, not 9. As his commlinks don't have hot sim capable modules nor other upgrades and there is no cyber or bioware present to add IP, it's one pass in the meat and AR and 2 passes in full VR. Or rather: 1 in AR, as there isn't even a regular sim module present.
3.) The cerebral booster also has availability 18, if your numbers are correct smile.gif
4.) With his body of 3 he has -1 to rea and agi if he wears all that armor
DnDer
QUOTE (thorya @ Jan 13 2013, 03:30 AM) *
Surely that's a typo. 9? passes? The most you can have is 5 (4 in meat space) when upgraded as much as possible.


I want to think so. But my GM posted his disbelief at 3 in meatspace, and had a similar comment at "9." Unless the player's handwriting is THAT bad...?
DnDer
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jan 13 2013, 03:31 AM) *
I haven't recalculated it all, but some glaring things:
1.) He can't have the electronics and cracking skillgroups at 5 and 6, as those are restricted to rating 4 at creation. Also, it seems they are paid at normal skill prices, not group prices. The cost would be 40 each at rating 4.
2.) There is nothing justifying 3 meat IP, and the absolute max you can get in the matrix is 5, not 9. As his commlinks don't have hot sim capable modules nor other upgrades and there is no cyber or bioware present to add IP, it's one pass in the meat and AR and 2 passes in full VR.
3.) The cerebral booster also has availability 18, if your numbers are correct smile.gif
4.) With his body of 3 he has -1 to rea and agi if he wears all that armor


1) I'll do the math and assume he jumped his groups using karma. Back with those in a minute.
2) Right. I noticed that after posting last time.
3) Yes. That was an oversight on my part when looking at the spreadsheet.
4) I thought so, but that seemed like the least of the GM's concerns at the moment. nyahnyah.gif


EDIT
40/40 on those skill groups returns a BP total of 388. To jump the one group to 6 and the other to 5 means 80 karma had to have been spent. Even if he did it wrong and he just bought the new rating * 5... 30... 20... Makes for a total of 50 karma, which is more than any award that had previously been given to the group members.
Makki
QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 13 2013, 11:31 AM) *
along with the massive list of (every!) program on the matrix list.

a hacker would be useless without...
DnDer
QUOTE (Makki @ Jan 13 2013, 03:37 AM) *
a hacker would be useless without...


Come on. I don't buy that. That'd be like saying a mage is useless without the entire grimoire's worth of spells.

Question about all those programs... Can they be shared between commlinks? It hasn't come up yet, but he can only switch them if he bought the chip option, right? Or would having to purchase the same program for multiple links just be an unreasonable tax on players?
thorya
As another side note for your GM, if he's going to have you guys spend your karma between sessions and not review it and he's worried about this player not following the rules. Watch out for 11th hour superpowering. i.e. He doesn't spend his karma or cash and when he needs something in game he adds it and then claims he added before the session.

All the programs isn't a big deal really. A more experience hacker probably could avoid wasting money on the useless ones. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the Medic program for example.
Makki
QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 13 2013, 11:44 AM) *
Come on. I don't buy that. That'd be like saying a mage is useless without the entire grimoire's worth of spells.

No it's not. That is THE huge difference between a hacker/TM and a mage.

technically, you can't copy them, unless you cracked copy protection. BUT, only legal programs do have copy protection and since most of them are R or F rated, the chance of aquiring them through legal channels is like 0.
But I guess buying a program includes several user licences and you can download and install it on a limited number of devices.
_Pax._
This makes a strong case for using HeroLab for character validation and tracking. It even tracks post-creation karma and cash awards and expenditures. smile.gif
Udoshi
QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 13 2013, 02:44 AM) *
Come on. I don't buy that. That'd be like saying a mage is useless without the entire grimoire's worth of spells.


Unfortunately, a hacker requires 10-12 programs just for basic tasks in the course of doing his job.
And they're pretty much mandatory.
You can't get in a node if you can't decrypt, you can't get in a node if you get seen, you can't get in a node if you can't get past the firewall, you can't get in a node if a databomb winstagibs you out of it. You can't find paydata without browse, you can't change paydata, records, or system logs without edit. You can't find SHIT without analyze. You can't find anything wifi without scan(and the Hidden Node threshold of 4 WILL screw you if you don't have a GOOD scan and EW skill)...

So yeah. There's like 8 programs you NEED to have, and then about 4-5 more for really common edge cases that will screw you if you don't have the proper response already on hand.
DnDer
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jan 13 2013, 04:09 AM) *
This makes a strong case for using HeroLab for character validation and tracking. It even tracks post-creation karma and cash awards and expenditures. smile.gif


Well, what do you know? I just checked. HeroLab is available for Mac and Windows. Maybe. $30 for one game's character generation support? I don't know, though... It might be something to pitch to the GM for splits, since it comes with 2 licenses.
bannockburn
If your GM is running windows, he can get chummer for free smile.gif
The thing with herolab, while certainly a neat program, is that you also need to pay for all the modules. It's a great tool though for a group if everyone pitches in smile.gif
Dolanar
yeah the free option is chummer & I can say from experience it works well, once everyone has a sheet made up you can pass the GM the .chum file & he can look it up in the program or view it as a .htm file if he chooses, it also keep track of Karma & Nuyen expenditures.
Lionhearted
@OP Codeslinger requires a specific action to be attached to it like, codeslinger (issuing command)
Ryu
That is a decent, not overpowered build. I have full access to HeroLab and recommend using it if you have the money to spare, but lets just continue with usual DS char-building service wink.gif

Its best to buy all programs at the same rating. With Unwired in play you want some options on top (expensive), but get to buy pirated softs. All means not having to check if you have the necessary program, same rating means not having to figure out which is used (helpful in the beginning).


The build above can be improved, so if the GM/group does not want to simply forgive the (I assume honest) mistakes, there is stuff to be done:
  • Qualities: Bad Luck is IMO a no-go. Edge is very important for high-level hacking.
  • Attributes: Better of being an Ork, as is often the case. Agility does little for the skillset, Int 5 / Log 4 would be better since Log has little gains too. Rea 3 doesnt matter in combat, so could be 2 instead. High willpower is never on the top of my list either => Edge 5 / Wil 3.
  • Skillset: Illegal group ratings aside, this is good. I like having multiple languages, too.
  • Augmentation: Note that Logic does very little for hacking unless you are using optional rules. If you are not, the player should loose the Cerebral booster completely. Flare Compensation is missing.
  • Gear: I assume the list is incomplete. Lifestyle/Fake SIN etc.


Should still be a decent build, yes?
Stingray
..what about Spoof chip installed (from Arsenal)(500Y) instead Spoof program..saving money is always good.. biggrin.gif
_Pax._
QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 13 2013, 05:54 AM) *
Well, what do you know? I just checked. HeroLab is available for Mac and Windows. Maybe. $30 for one game's character generation support? I don't know, though... It might be something to pitch to the GM for splits, since it comes with 2 licenses.

CAVEAT: It's $30 only for the Core rulebook. Another $55 for the main Supplements (Arsenal, Augmentation, etc). Then maybe $20 or $30 for all the smaller-PDF books (I forget if they're at 2 or 3 bundles of those, so far)

So just over $100 for "the whole schmear".

OTOH, if everyone pitches in? One purchase comes with two licenses, and additional licenses are $10 each - and buying a module/supplement is ACCOUNT-bound, not individual-computer-bound. So a group of four, can get a HeroLab copy apiece, of all of SR4, for under $40 apiece. And if your group plays more than one of the systems HeroLab can help with, well ... smile.gif


OTOH, if free is more your speed, lots of folks around here swear by Chummer, so that's also always an option.

I would advise that everyone in a single group should generally use the same software, though, regardless.
_Pax._
QUOTE (Stingray @ Jan 13 2013, 07:25 AM) *
..what about Spoof chip installed (from Arsenal)(500Y) instead Spoof program..saving money is always good.. biggrin.gif

Totally different function and purpose.

The Spoof Chip only spoofs AccessIDs.

The Spoof Program can fake any order, command, data, etc.
_Pax._
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jan 13 2013, 06:51 AM) *
[*]Augmentation: Note that Logic does very little for hacking unless you are using optional rules. If you are not, the player should loose the Cerebral booster completely.

OTOH, Logic is very useful for anyone who wishes to do their own Programming, cook their own chipsets, etc.
Elfenlied
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jan 13 2013, 02:12 PM) *
OTOH, Logic is very useful for anyone who wishes to do their own Programming, cook their own chipsets, etc.


Which, given the intervals, happens about once in a blue moon.
Faraday
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Jan 13 2013, 06:51 AM) *
Which, given the intervals, happens about once in a blue moon.

Indeed. Hardware does have significant use when working with a less sophisticated system or something hardwired. Sometimes you need to crack into the casing and dig around instead of wizzing through it with your brain.
NiL_FisK_Urd
Well, building a response chip has only an interval of 1 day and a Threshold of Rtg. x2. Although this is more interesting for Riggers, who need multiple response chips.
_Pax._
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Jan 13 2013, 09:51 AM) *
Which, given the intervals, happens about once in a blue moon.

O_o

You're kidding, right?

Let's say he wanted to (a) upgrade his Response and System to 6, then (b) replace his Exploit and Stealth programs with R6 versions.

To purchase them, the Response upgrade costs 8,000 with an Availability of 16. That means he;ll have to make a Negotiation+Charisma Extended test against a Threshold of 16, with an interval of 2 days. This particular character, with Charisma 2 and Negotiation 0, is rolling one die at a time; this is a prime candidate to spend more than the base value; i this were my character, I'd up the roll to 5 dice, by spending 125% extra. Yayy, 18,000 nuyen, and ... still 16 days.

System, luckily, is an Avaiability 0 item, so just 3,000 and he's done.

Exploit and Stealth, however, are both Availability 12, and 3,000. The same +125% strategy turns each into a 6,750-and-12-days task.

So, for that relatively small improvement, the character could spend 34,500 and forty days, to purchase them. OH, also: face three separate SIN checks. Hope that's a rock-solid Fake SIN you've got there ...

...

Or, he could make his own. With Logic 8, Skill 5 ... he's at a base DP of 13.

A Response 6 chip means a threshold of 12, an interval of 1 day, and he has 13 dice to drop on it. Should take him 6 checks, or just under 1 week. I can't find rules for the price of materials, but if we ball-park it at 50% of street value ... yeah, 4,000 is a darned sight cheaper than 18,000, now, isn't it?

System he can buy legally, no checks involved, still.

Each program has an Interval of 1 month, and a Threshold of 12. For 5,000 nuyen, he can get a Programmign Suite R5, bringing his die pool to 18; two rolls should suffice for each program. And for 6,000 nuyen, he can rent access to a Programming Environment for two months - enough to complete both programs in half the usual time. Oh, and the programs themselves cost ZERO in materials, obviously speaking.

Final price, for make-it-yourself? 18,000 and 42 days. If the Environment he rents is Shadow-friendly, no SIN checks either.

Granted, for the chip, you may need a Shop ... but those can probably be rented for about as much as an Environment, I'd guess.

Half the time, half the money, and a new piece of gear to book (that Suite). A lot less need to worry about SIN checks, too.

...

Guess which route I consider to be superior?
Lionhearted
The one where he calls his fixer?
NiL_FisK_Urd
SIN-checks? WTH are you buying illegal programs on the open market and not in the shadows? Also, every decent Hacker should have "Warezhouse 24" as a group contact. Now aquiring these two programs and system costs 900nY and takes about ... 2 minutes. For the Response chip: You have a Fixer, dont you? Pay him to get it four you.

@making a chip: Price is 50%, stated on SR4A, p.227 (Using Hardware). Now, what availability do the parts for the chip have? There is none given, meaning GM fiat. I would go with the most similar rules, "Creating Chemicals".
QUOTE (ARS @ p.78)
Generally speaking, the ingredients for a compound have an Availability equal to that of the compound

If we assume an avail 0 for parts (because none is given), what would stop anyone from buying parts for a R10 Response chip at chargen (Avail 40F) and assembling it after the game starts?
_Pax._
That quote on ingredient availability, btw? Stupid rule.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jan 13 2013, 04:51 AM) *
The build above can be improved, so if the GM/group does not want to simply forgive the (I assume honest) mistakes, there is stuff to be done:
[list]
[*]Qualities: Bad Luck is IMO a no-go. Edge is very important for high-level hacking.



DO not agree here. Edge is USEFUL for a Hacker, but not necessary. Hell, In my opinion, Edge is never needed. If I could get build points back to lower the Human norm of 2 Edge to a 1, I would do it in a heartbeat. *shrug*

I tend to take Bad luck for about 40% of my characters, becuase it provides a very good mechanical control, with no ambiguity. My Cyberlogician has Bad Luck and Edge 2. He has survived for over 340 Karma. If you build to where you do not NEED to spend karma, then you only use it when it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. AS such, the occasional bad luck has worked for me. Makes for some good stories when it hits. smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Jan 13 2013, 07:51 AM) *
Which, given the intervals, happens about once in a blue moon.


My hackers do it all the time. Intervals are a Joke, really. smile.gif
bannockburn
Okay, I've just entered the character and it seems it's all good, apart from the (probably honest) mistake of the skillgroups and the two 18 availability items.
In my test (without the 18 availability items and the drones and 2nd commlink) he has about 18 BP left for lifestyle costs, contacts.
To address your GMs main concerns and reiterate what others said:
1.) Yes, hackers need almost all programs, so this is all good. Allowing the hacker to use them on different commlinks is common, though by RAW he'd need to get them all again, I believe. I would allow it, or it gets ridiculous soon wink.gif
2.) Picking locks: 
QUOTE
The autopicker’s rating added as a dice pool modifier to the Locksmith + Agility Test to pick the lock (p.135), or used in place of Locksmith skill if the character lacks it.

So, it should be 11 dice, except if your GM allowed +1 for AR supported lockpicking or there was a bonus from somewhere else.

Personally, I like this build. It's far from being overpowered and looks like a character whose player has put some thought into.
I would suggest correcting the mistakes instead of a completely new build, because it's really minor.
Additionally, I would suggest giving him a datajack for VR access, and pimping out the commlink a bit, with enhanced firewall, response, system, maybe, and of course a hot sim module.
Also, the eyes have still 2 capacity left, one of which could go neatly to flare compensation.

Athletics skill group is important! ^^

That's all I have for now smile.gif
Ryu
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jan 13 2013, 02:12 PM) *
OTOH, Logic is very useful for anyone who wishes to do their own Programming, cook their own chipsets, etc.

QUOTE
A Response 6 chip means a threshold of 12, an interval of 1 day, and he has 13 dice to drop on it. Should take him 6 checks, or just under 1 week.

Threshold 12, hit on average after 36 dice rolled. Logic 4 + Software 4 + AR support bonus (1-3) should already to it in (assuming AR bonus +1) in 6 days, but rolling some glitch-heavy tests. Dp 13-16 does it in 3 days. In case of riggers I would totally agree that the Cerebral Booster is worth the money. Hackers need fewer chips. Suggesting Logic 4 / Software 4 is also not a min/maxing strategy. I just say an off-time revenue of 4k/week is sufficient.

QUOTE
Each program has an Interval of 1 month, and a Threshold of 12. For 5,000 nuyen, he can get a Programming Suite R5, bringing his die pool to 18; two rolls should suffice for each program. And for 6,000 nuyen, he can rent access to a Programming Environment for two months - enough to complete both programs in half the usual time. Oh, and the programs themselves cost ZERO in materials, obviously speaking.

This is what Logic is nice to have for, but also the option I have not seen in play so far. We usually take some leeway in this kind of thread, so may I ask about other peoples experience with DIY-coding?
Ryu
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jan 13 2013, 06:10 PM) *
DO not agree here. Edge is USEFUL for a Hacker, but not necessary. Hell, In my opinion, Edge is never needed. If I could get build points back to lower the Human norm of 2 Edge to a 1, I would do it in a heartbeat. *shrug*

I tend to take Bad luck for about 40% of my characters, becuase it provides a very good mechanical control, with no ambiguity. My Cyberlogician has Bad Luck and Edge 2. He has survived for over 340 Karma. If you build to where you do not NEED to spend karma, then you only use it when it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. AS such, the occasional bad luck has worked for me. Makes for some good stories when it hits. smile.gif

I totally approve that strategy for anyone who dislikes using/having to use Edge. We use karmagen, so I use the middle ground (3-4). I call Edge useful because rerolling misses is great for Hacking on the Fly. One cant depend on that as many systems will have to be hacked, as Edge is limited. Having the option is IMO still nice. Not to speak of a safety net in case of physical combat.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jan 13 2013, 02:12 PM) *
This is what Logic is nice to have for, but also the option I have not seen in play so far. We usually take some leeway in this kind of thread, so may I ask about other peoples experience with DIY-coding?


If I may ask, what exactly are you looking for here?
I have a character that self codes much of his software. He is mostly retired now, and does a lot of custom stuff for the shadows.
Ryu
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jan 14 2013, 04:32 PM) *
If I may ask, what exactly are you looking for here?
I have a character that self codes much of his software. He is mostly retired now, and does a lot of custom stuff for the shadows.

Im looking for ways to make it worthwhile to spend the time. The "lot of custom stuff for the shadows". Adventures and encounters that ensued, ways to make the software cool, people to meet, how to make money without being caught by the corps, fighting other org crime for market share.
DnDer
Real quick, because my book is at home... The limit of 12 for availability: Does it cover all 12s? Or only 12 and 12R, while xF is just plain unpurchasable at character generation?
bannockburn
F and R is of no matter during creation.
_Pax._
12, 12R, and 12F aer all the same, where character creation is concerned.

Regardless of the number, the R or F just means "how much trouble will you get into witht eh cops, if they find out your have this?"
StealthSigma
QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 13 2013, 05:32 AM) *
I want to think so. But my GM posted his disbelief at 3 in meatspace, and had a similar comment at "9." Unless the player's handwriting is THAT bad...?


A handwritten 4 can easily appear to be a 9.
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