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Chorro2200
Hi.

I am new to shadowrun, coming from DND. I'm joining an existing campaign w/ 2 other guys in version SR4

I'll start off with about a 500 point build and maybe 100 karma.

We'll be playing in the Dawn of the artifacts campaign. No spoilers please, but maybe some tips or hints. Just mentioning it to give anybody

I'm mostly interested in my equipment that i'll need. Like a shopping list, because I've already been helped w/ stats and skills and stuff like that, but any info would be helpful really.

I have to get started on dinner, so I have to keep this short, but I'll be on later to give more details. Any ideas and help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chorro2200
Oehler the Black
This omae is joining my group that currently consists of an orc street sam, my hermetic utility mage, and an NPC face.

Our group has been hemoraging members due to changes in players employment and residency, and having just converted my buddy here over from that other rpg we can finally play again.
We just got started playing again and looking to bring in new blood, so any tips and constructive ideas for Choro here would be doubly appreciated by myself and our group.
_Pax._
QUOTE (Chorro2200 @ Jan 25 2013, 07:22 PM) *
I'm mostly interested in my equipment that i'll need. Like a shopping list,


Let's start with the Commlink - get a Singularity Battle Buddy Basic. It's a very nice unit, with Response 5 and Signal 5 ... as well as 5 points of Armor (so it's hard to damage), and 5 points of EMP Hardening (so it's hard to "fry"). Base price is 10,000 - not cheap, but it's worth the money.

Add System 5 (2,500) and Firewall 6 (3,000).

The next program to add is Analyze 6, with Optimisation 1 and Ergonomic (costs 1000 total).

Next up is an ECCM program, Rating 5 with Ergonomic (5,300).

That, right there, sets you up with a pretty well-defended central node, from which to control your drones - and it'll be just about immune to anything short of a full-on Military-grade jamming effort (Signal 5, ECCM 5, it'd take ten points of jamming to completely shut you down - eleven, if you also wear a Skinweb Array). It's also got solidly good stats for use as a hacking platform, too.

...

I won't go into drones and such, because I have no idea how much budget you'll have, after buying the programs you'll need to be a hacker. Probably not enough, IMO. smile.gif
Oehler the Black
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jan 25 2013, 06:40 PM) *
I won't go into drones and such, because I have no idea how much budget you'll have, after buying the programs you'll need to be a hacker. Probably not enough, IMO. [img]http://forums.dumpshock.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]


Thanks for the quick advice Pax grinbig.gif I always love to see how helpful the community here is. And that brings me to a quick update. I believe the GM is going to issue him an additional 100k or more to help get him up to speed. So some nifty drone ideas would be sweet.

I've personally never built a tech character before so I'm not much aid as to what is good for em, but I'd love the community input on this list of ideas for positive qualities and gear for my omae Chorro2200 here.

Qualities:
Analytical Mind
Codeslinger
Juryrigger
More than Metahuman

'Ware:
Attention Coprocessor
Math SPU
Simsense Booster
Encephalon
Control Rig
Cerebral Booster
Reception Enhancer
PuSHeD
All4BigGuns
I'll agree with all of Pax's suggestions save one. Don't get Firewall 6 unless you want to get a Response 6 module pretty soon after generation or you want to burn a Restricted Gear use on that Response module. I've seen nothing in any book that states that Firewall is an exception to being limited by Response. (No, it's not limited by System since both are part of the OS, but Response is another matter entirely, and it would require specific notation to be an exception.)
_Pax._
QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Jan 25 2013, 09:23 PM) *
I've seen nothing in any book that states that Firewall is an exception to being limited by Response.

Do you have a reference suggesting that it is restricted by Response?

See, System itself specifically says it is restricted by Response. But Firewall and Signal say no such thing, nor is there a blanket rule listed under Response. (Looking at SR4A pp 221-222.)
All4BigGuns
Well, there is the fact of why bother listing any Firewall rating other than 6 or higher if it weren't? No one in the setting would EVER have less if there wasn't some limitation preventing it.
_Pax._
That's not a RAW reference, All4. That's just you.

Got something you can quote from one of the books saying Firewall is restricted by Response?
All4BigGuns
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jan 25 2013, 09:52 PM) *
That's not a RAW reference, All4. That's just you.

Got something you can quote from one of the books saying Firewall is restricted by Response?


Everything else is, so the question is, can you find something from the books specifically saying that it is an exception to that?

FAQ entry doesn't count as it only says that it isn't limited by System. (Common Sense there since they're both OS components)
_Pax._
QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Jan 25 2013, 10:54 PM) *
Everything else is, [...]

No, no it is not. Quote something from teh rules, that says otherwise.

Firewall? Say nothing of the sort.

Response? Says nothing of the sort.

Signal? Not only says nothing of the sort, but several stock Commlinks have a higher Signal rating than they have Response.

System? Specifically says that it is, itself, restridted by Response.

QUOTE
[...] so the question is, can you find something from the books specifically saying that it is an exception to that?

There cannot be a statement of an exception to a rule which does not exist.
All4BigGuns
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jan 25 2013, 10:05 PM) *
No, no it is not. Quote something from teh rules, that says otherwise.

Firewall? Say nothing of the sort.

Response? Says nothing of the sort.

Signal? Not only says nothing of the sort, but several stock Commlinks have a higher Signal rating than they have Response.

System? Specifically says that it is, itself, restridted by Response.


There cannot be a statement of an exception to a rule which does not exist.


Since all of the programs are limited by System and System is limited by Response, by extension all the programs are limited by Response. There is nothing saying that Firewall is a "special snowflake" with absolutely no limitations.

Oh and the claim that it isn't is just a blatant attempt at rules lawyering.
_Pax._
QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Jan 25 2013, 11:09 PM) *
Since all of the programs are limited by System and System is limited by Response, by extension all the programs are limited by Response. There is nothing saying that Firewall is a "special snowflake" with absolutely no limitations.

Firewall isn't a program. It's a matrix attribute.
All4BigGuns
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Jan 25 2013, 10:12 PM) *
Firewall isn't a program. It's a matrix attribute.


It's software. All other software is in some way limited, so why the bloody hell would someone accept the rules lawyering for Firewall not being limited?

Either way, we're obviously not gonna agree, so let's drop it now. The point does still stand that it is rules lawyering.
_Pax._
QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Jan 25 2013, 11:13 PM) *
It's software. All other software is in some way limited, so why the bloody hell would someone accept the rules lawyering for Firewall not being limited?

Last thing I'm going to say here: the only one rules-lawyering here is you.

The book says nothing about Firewall being limited by Response.

With that, I'm done with this discussion.
The Random NPC
QUOTE (Oehler the Black @ Jan 25 2013, 09:13 PM) *
Thanks for the quick advice Pax grinbig.gif I always love to see how helpful the community here is. And that brings me to a quick update. I believe the GM is going to issue him an additional 100k or more to help get him up to speed. So some nifty drone ideas would be sweet.

I've personally never built a tech character before so I'm not much aid as to what is good for em, but I'd love the community input on this list of ideas for positive qualities and gear for my omae Chorro2200 here.

Qualities:
Analytical Mind
Codeslinger
Juryrigger
More than Metahuman

'Ware:
Attention Coprocessor
Math SPU
Simsense Booster
Encephalon
Control Rig
Cerebral Booster
Reception Enhancer
PuSHeD

To get back to tthe subject at hand, Codeslinger has to be paired with a matrix command, I suggest Command.
Mantis
For Drone you can try these.

This is built for surveillance and taking out other small drones. The price in brackets for software is pirated software and its upkeep. Pretty pricey but if you take out the pilot upgrade that will make it cheaper.
Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly Minidrone (Hunter/killer) 2,500R -
Hand: +1, Accel: 3/15, Speed: 30, Pilot: 3(5), Body: 1, Armor: 1, Sensor: 2(5), Signal: 3(5), Response: 3(5), Firewall:3, System:3
Targeting (Close Combat) 4 (integral)
Improved Takeoff and Landing 2 (integral)
Special Machinery (minidrone weaponry, see description) (integral)
Rigger Adaptation (integral)
Modifications: (1 of 4 slots filled)
Fuzzy Logic (1 slot, 4 thresh/kit, 2,500 , 12R, Hardware)
Total Cost: 2,500
Software Upgrades: (pirated)
Adaptability 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Chaser 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Clearsight 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Covert Ops 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Defense 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Electronic Warfare 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Manoeuver 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Pilot 5 (12,500 (1,250 + 250/2 months, )
Total Cost: 23,000
Pirated Costs: 2,300 + 600/2 months
Hardware Upgrades
Vehicle Sensors +3
1 Camera 6 (600, 18)
w/ Thermographics 100, Flare Compensation 100, Vision Enhancement 3 300
1 Microphone 6 (150, -)
w/ Spatial Recognizer +100, +6, Audio Enhancement 3 +100, +2
Response +2 (10 thresh/1 day, 2000, -)
Signal +2 (10 thresh/1 day, 500, -)
Total Cost: 3,950
Total Vehicle Cost: 8,950 (Hardware) + 24,200 (Software)

Next is a combat drone. Not sure how you are going to move it around but it would be pretty useful. You can opt in Ergonomic for the vehicle software to make it run more efficiently if you like.
GM-Nissan Doberman medium drone 3,000 -
Hand: 0, Accel: 10/25, Speed: 75, Pilot: 3, Body: 3, Armour: 9, Sensor: 3(6), Signal: 5, Response: 3, Firewall:3, System:3
Rigger Adaptation (integral)
Walker Mode (integral)
External, Fixed, Remote Control Weapon Mount (integral)
Clearsight 3 (integral)
Targeting (Assault Rifle) 3 (integral)
Modifications: (3 of 4 slots filled)
Gecko Tips (1 slot, 8 thresh/shop, 300, 6)
Fuzzy Logic (1 slot, 4 thresh/kit, 2,500 , 12R, Hardware)
Armor Upgrade (1 slot, 10 thresh/shop, 1,800, 6R, Armorer)
Colt M22A3 Assault Rifle (1,600, 9R) - or assault rifle of choice.
Total Cost: 4,600
Software Upgrades
Covert Ops 3, optimized 1 (1,600 (160 + 60/2 months, 9), 7)
Defense 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Manoeuver 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Electronic Warfare 3 (1,500 (150 + 50/2 months, 7)
Total Cost: 6,100
Pirated Costs: 610 + 60/2 months
Hardware Upgrades
Sensor Upgrades
1 Camera 6 (600, 18)
w/ Thermographics 100, Flare Compensation 100, Vision Enhancement 3 300
1 Microphone 6 (150, -)
w/ Spatial Recognizer +100, +6, Audio Enhancement 3 +100, +2
Signal +2 (10 thresh/1 day, 500, -)
Total Cost: 1,950
Total Vehicle Cost: 9,550 (Hardware) + 6,100 (Software)

Anyway, start with these and go on from there.
Lionhearted
Ergonomics and Commlink brands listed in god knows what book, dial back guys... You don't want to melt his brain.

Also Unwired lists several peripherals with firewall higher then response /case
_Pax._
Drones & Vehicles:

General rules: Every single drone or vehicle should include Spoof Chips (500). Vehicles shoudl have a Morphing License Plate (1,000), as a matter of course. If your GM is going to use the rules for Pirating software, you may want to consider just pirating the best-rated Firewall program you can use, and install it to everything you have that can run it.

An option is to use the nonstandard wireless link plug-in module (available in ratigns 1-6, costing R*500); you'd need one for each and every drone and vehicle, and one more for your commlink. It uses different frequencies for your wireless network, so it's slightly harder for anyone to even know there IS a wireless network in the area, thus, harder for them to find a drone and even begin trying to hack in.

Specific drones:

A nice drone to have, is a quiet, stealthy "overwatch" unit, to keep an eye-in-the-sky above the team. Watch the outside of any building you need to do biz in (whether biz is a meet, or a job), discretely tail people, etc. Remember: Information is King of the battlespace.

For this, I suggest starting with the Renraku Stormcloud. It's an LTA drone, meaning it has a lot of endurance in the air (60 hours' flight time, standard). Also, it's pretty ubiquitous in an urban area. Off the shelf, ti costs 2,600.

Using the Vehicle Modification rules in Arsenal, I would add:
  • Chameleon Coating (3,000; 1 slot); good for predator-like camoflage. Also, good for "false flag" options ... that is, matching the paint scheme of someone else's perfectly-authorised/normal LTA drones in an effort to "blend in" without going ninja-invisibility on them.
  • Weapon Mount: Internal, Fixed, Remote (3,000; 3slots); you can put an MGL-12 (grenade rifle) in this. Note that it points STRAIGHT DOWN - the idea is, now your eye-in-the-sky is also a BOMBER, now. A good option is to load a mix of Thermal Smoke, and Neurostun or other nonlethal chems - and use it to cover any hasty retreats you have to make. Note, the weapon and ammo are not included in the cost here.


... Family is calling for me; new episode of MLP .... I'll be back later to post more drones for you to consider.
Modular Man
I think specific rules issues can be solved between the player and the responsible GM - who both happen to visit here smile.gif

First of all, which books is the group using? That may be important before people start pulling up equipment from 10+ books.

I, too, advise the widespread use of spoof chips. They aren't even restricted to vehicles - commlinks can use them pretty well, too. In case you didn't find them already, they're from "Arsenal", as well as the morphing license plates.

I favor drones that allow me to stay reasonably cheap just in case I lose one.
There's also the Renraku Manservant-1, a humanoid drone (also from "Arsenal"), which I'm particularly fond of thanks to its versatility. While it will lose about any fist fight, it can still handle most human equipment, especially guns. Add in a few appropriate modifications and it becomes fairly useful.
Having your own semi-capable robotic mechanic on the side also helps (though there's other, more specialised drones to fill this role).

Important notice on drones and vehicles: These things operate within the boundaries of their sensors. I'd recommend reading the sensor rules on p. 105, "Arsenal". They explain how the sensor rating vehicles have can be changed and what they mean. Sensors are used for both shooting and perception tests. If done right, this can add a few dice with little effort and a reasonable price.
hermit
QUOTE
can you find something from the books specifically saying that it is an exception to that?

SR Missions NPC use Firewall like that, and SR missions FAQ (IIRC) also says Firewall is an exception.
Chorro2200
Wow thanks for all the responses. I would have replied sooner, but I didn't know what to say, especially since I didn't really have an idea of how I would perceive my character in Shadowrun.

I did add a bunch of stuff you guys mentioned and started playing on Saturday. Wow it was cool. I love the aesthetic and feel of the game. I was way underpowered when we played (mostly because I hadn't received any karma or Nuyen to bring me up to par w/ the other players). But that's fine because I didn't know what to expect.

Now that I have a better feel on the world of Shadowrun, I think I have a good idea how his life evolved before encountering his current group. After our session on Saturday our GM said I can start w/ as much nuyen and karma as the rest of the group has earned since they started playing. aprox 625 thousand Nuyen, and 275 Karma.

Can you guys please critique this rough draft/general outline of my characters background? His name is Johny Rhodes. Also since I don't know much about the Shadowrun world, can you also let me give me a general idea of how feasible some of this stuff would be?

Johny is born the son of an up and coming politician (contact: by the time Johny meets the group his dad will a big time political figure who has since disowned, but still has some contact and loyalty to Johny). Johny goes to and graduates from the day's equivalent of MIT for college (quality: College educated) where he is taught by some of the greats, who created the current matrix. He decided to join the military after finishing school (at which point his father disowns him). He does well in the military. In the military he works with all kinds of drones performing military operations, and after several years, and much learned experience, something happens that makes him decide to leave. His name and some military equipment "disappears" from all the records (which I'm sure I'll have check with the GM first to get them approved). When he leaves the military he becomes a runner. Continuing to work other runners until he eventually meets up w/ the group I am playing with. Something has happened in his life that now makes him want to have a 3rd person view of himself, so there is a micro-drone, or maybe multiple micro-drones that follow him around in full chameleon camouflage so he can keep eyes on his surroundings.

Any advice would be nice. I'm sure I could make myself much stronger than the party w/ all that money, since they had to spend it to gradually get stronger, and I can dole it out at once, so I'd like to not be a dick and use some of that for fun, like the multiple micro drones who follow me around to give me a 3rd person view of my surroundings, but any other suggestions would be nice.

Thanks,

Chorro2200

TL;DR
I just started and am loving the Shadowrun world. I got lots of money and karma to build and would like some build help w/ the ideas I have for my character.
Chorro2200
Oh, and can anybody recommend a book? Not a rule book, but like a story based on a group of shadowrunners, so I can get a better idea of the world.

Thanks again.
Lionhearted
Sounds all well and good, you should consider some knowledge skills to reflect your experiences.
You should probably do some research on where you come from, if it's an Seattle campaign bear in mind that Seattle is an a small piece of UCAS in the middle of other nation (You got native american and elven nations as neighbours)
What nation did you grow up in?
Did you even grow up in North America? Were you a citizen of the country or a corp?
Were it a public or corporate school? if the latter, what corporation was it associated with?
Was it a national or private army? (the latter is bound to be better equipped, well except in Aztlan where they're one and the same)

But most importantly!
One does not simply "go off to become a runner", Runners are criminals, outlaws, deniable assets... It's not a path you choose, it's one you fall into, is forced into or is born into.
What major shit hit the fan so that you had to drop into the shadows?
Were you set up? made to take the fall for someone? Did you screw up in such a way that your head would roll?
Were your files lost in a major incident or blowout? was your family disgraced and erased?
or are you simply one of those not quite wet behind the ears thrill seekers?
Draco18s
QUOTE (Chorro2200 @ Jan 28 2013, 11:43 AM) *
Oh, and can anybody recommend a book? Not a rule book, but like a story based on a group of shadowrunners, so I can get a better idea of the world.

Thanks again.


Two:

1) Never Deal With a Dragon. Very good introduction book.
2) Psychotrope. Not a very good book, but it takes place entirely on/in the Matrix over the course of 12 minutes. It's a great "this is what the Matrix is supposed to be like" book, even if some people hate it.

Both are out of print, but should be easy enough to find used.

QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Jan 25 2013, 11:13 PM) *
It's software. All other software is in some way limited, so why the bloody hell would someone accept the rules lawyering for Firewall not being limited?


Just as an FYI: you're bringing real-world knowledge into a game that isn't based in reality here.

Yes, in the real world Firewall is a software program. In Shadowrun it's a hardware firewall and ergo not limited by Response.

You're going to run into a lot of this (e.g. having to decrypt a signal before you can sniff it) so you'd best get used to setting aside what you know now.
The Random NPC
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 28 2013, 12:03 PM) *
Two:

1) Never Deal With a Dragon. Very good introduction book.
2) Psychotrope. Not a very good book, but it takes place entirely on/in the Matrix over the course of 12 minutes. It's a great "this is what the Matrix is supposed to be like" book, even if some people hate it.

Both are out of print, but should be easy enough to find used.



Just as an FYI: you're bringing real-world knowledge into a game that isn't based in reality here.

Yes, in the real world Firewall is a software program. In Shadowrun it's a hardware firewall and ergo not limited by Response.

You're going to run into a lot of this (e.g. having to decrypt a signal before you can sniff it) so you'd best get used to setting aside what you know now.

FYI, Firewalls exist as both hardware and software. Software is more ubiquitous.
Draco18s
QUOTE (The Random NPC @ Jan 28 2013, 12:15 PM) *
FYI, Firewalls exist as both hardware and software. Software is more ubiquitous.


IRL, yes (and more commonly referred to as "switches" or "routers"). I was making the point that in SR they're only hardware.
Lionhearted
Shadowrun rulebooks in general have an substantial amount of story stuff in them you should read through the rulebooks your group have access to, the shadowtalk and fluff is quite a nice introduction. So is the short stories and summarized timeline in the Anniversary corebook.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Chorro2200 @ Jan 28 2013, 09:43 AM) *
Oh, and can anybody recommend a book? Not a rule book, but like a story based on a group of shadowrunners, so I can get a better idea of the world.

Thanks again.


Hmmmmm...
Tons of Novels out there.

Highly Recommended
Wolf and Raven
Run Hard, Die Fast
2XS

Other Good Ones:
Streets of Blood
Shadowplay
House of the Sun
Lone Wolf
Tails you Lose
The Forever Drug
Burning Bright
Striper Assassin
Changeling

Lots of others, these are the one I remember off the top of my head.

Chorro2200
Wow, you guys are fast. Thanks

QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 28 2013, 11:18 AM) *
Shadowrun rulebooks in general have an substantial amount of story stuff in them you should read through the rulebooks your group have access to, the shadowtalk and fluff is quite a nice introduction. So is the short stories and summarized timeline in the Anniversary corebook.


About this I have been reading the parts from the rule books, but those feel more like excerpts from another full story. I would also like to read a full on story from beginning to end to get a better feel of how the world works.
And thanks also for the ideas on nationality, military service and the other background stuff involved.

I'll keep all of that in mind and I flesh out the character more.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Chorro2200 @ Jan 28 2013, 12:38 PM) *
About this I have been reading the parts from the rule books, but those feel more like excerpts from another full story. I would also like to read a full on story from beginning to end to get a better feel of how the world works.


Pretty much any of the Shadowrun novels from the late 80s/early 90s.
Lionhearted
Also... Neuromancer, it's not Shadowrun but it might aswell be nyahnyah.gif
Do yourself a favour and play through the original Deus ex aswell and probably the new one aswell... skip invisible wars.
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