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FXcalibur
There are too many and too broad in subject, so everything goes here smile.gif

1) About clips. So let's say I have an Ingram Warrior 10 and I think I need spare clips. I buy 2 of them for 10 nuyen. okay, that part is fine, but what confuses me is the reloading procedure.

1 simple action to eject clip, one to stuff fresh clip in. But why simple action? Don't pistols have some kind of ejector button in a really easy to reach position? It's a simple press, hardly deservering of a simple action (IMHO, of course). In fact, couldn't your other hand go for a spare mag...clip... while you eject the current one?

Okay, maybe ejecting a clip is a simple action because you need to grab it and stuff it back nto your pants to save the remaining ammo, or something similar. If so then why is ejecting a smartgun clip the same action but considered a Free Action?

2) Again, clips. How do I list clips? Do I need to specify what ammo I have in each clip (or each loaded gun at character creation, for that matter), like:

Ingram Warrior-10
/w 30rnds Flechette
2 Ingram Warrior-10 Clips
/w 60rnds Flechette
4 Ingram Warrior-10 Clips
/w 120rnds Gel

Or do I reload from a 'pool' of bullets, a la FPS games?

"Iron Angel, your Warrior 10 has run outta bullets. Reload?"
"Yeah sure. Uh, I bought two spare clips..."

Character Sheet lists:
2 spare Ingram Warrior clips
100 rounds standard
50 rounds flechette

"I'll reload with...um...flechette."

Character sheet turns into:
1 spare Ingram Warrior clip
1 empty Ingram Warrior clip
100 rounds standard
20 rounds flechette

Which one is it? indifferent.gif

3) Why does it take a simple action to change modes? Firearms can have double triggers (older ones), and firing SA and FA could simply be a matter of holding down the trigger (yeah, i know there's a dedicated SA mode for RL firearms). Also, SS weapons include single action and bolt action weapons, right? Or does single and bolt action no longer exist in 206X?

4) What happens if I reduce a weapon's concealability to one or below with accessories? Like slapping on a gas vent 4 on a 2 Conceal AR along with a scope and underbarrel smartlink. Does it become immediately apparent, no test required? (a la miniguns or rocket launchers). If a weapon drops to conceal zero or below, what happens when the character wears a long coat?

5) Why is assault cannon ammo so easy to spot? It can't be larger; it's supposed to fit in the same gun and chamber as that standard ammo sitting over there.

6) Are there rules for powered armour? What about more exotic things like jump jets (Hey, we have cyberskates, right?), and even worse, what do I do if a player wants to invent something new, like aforementioned jump jets?

7) Are there EMP weapons?

8 ) Where is Dikote listed and how can I calculate cost? While on the matter, can I Dikote bullets?

9) If I hold a holdout to someone's head and tell em to freeze, and they freeze, do I still need to roll to determine the accuracy (with penalties for call shot even) of my shot, or is it a clean hit?

10) I've seen trolls with really high body. How do trolls commit suicide? Holding a pistol to your head when you have 20 odd body can't be the answer.

I think I got more, but I'll ask em as I remember em. These are at the top of my head right now. Thanks in advance wink.gif
Austere Emancipator
1) I house rule that ejecting a mag is a Free Action, regardless of Smartlinks. Unless you have the new clip (mag) in an easily accessed spot (if you have it in an inside pocket, for example), it's a Complex Action to put in a new magazine -- Simple Action to pull the new one out and another Simple to insert it.

If you want to keep the mag, I enforce another Simple Action to put the old magazine in an easily accessed pouch (such as on a LBV), or a Complex Action if you want it in your bag or an inside pouch, etc.

2) I house rule that changing firing modes is a Free Action regardless of Smartlink. Thumbing the little switch is pretty darn easy.

4) Keep count of the actual Concealability, it might rise above 2 in some cases. Conc 0 + Concealable Holster (if it's a Conc 0 Pistol...) + Long Coat: Concealability 0. The TN to spot it is never lower than 2 anyway.

5) Yes it's larger. Assault Cannons are fucking huge weapons. Why it's so much bigger than Barrett M121 ammo is another thing entirely, but it sure as hell should be way larger and way heavier than Pistol ammo, for example. Assault Cannon can only fire Assault Cannon ammo, other weapons (excluding AutoCannons) cannot fire Assault Cannon ammo.

6) No such rules, but power armor has been thoroughly discussed here. Use the Search function if you want to know more.

(There is no eight) M&M p. 111. No numerical benefit for Dikoting bullets, but you certainly can do it, at least with Regular and Armor Piercing ammunition. You cannot do it unless you put the ammo together yourself, however, because taking the bullets (or penetrators with APDS) out of the cases (and sabots) one by one is a major pain the ass, and then you have to put them back together again. Also, many ammo types cannot handle the heat, and might be much less effective after Dikoted (Glazers couldn't hack it, Hollow Points might not either and would be crappy with it on).

10) MitS says that you can do any amount of damage to yourself that you wish. This means that anyone can automatically kill themselves without any rolls necessary. Shooting yourself in the head is just "fluff" really, though the GM probably should request a reasonable method of inflicting the damage.
TinkerGnome
QUOTE
If so then why is ejecting a smartgun clip the same action but considered a Free Action?

It's a free action with the smartgun because you're sending a mental command to the weapon. Don't ask me how this works for non-cyber smartgun rigs, because I have no clue. Considering the length of the round and the number of simple actions combat characters get, one simple action is really only about .5-.75 seconds, so a button press seems to meet that timeframe. (assuming 2-3 passes for an average "combat character")

QUOTE
Again, clips. How do I list clips?

I generally list them by weapon and by type. So you might see:

Ares Alpha Combat Gun (modifiers go here)
- 2 clips Ex-Ex
- 2 clips gel
- 2 clips normal ammo

It's a good idea to note weights for the ammo, too, so you can tell how much you can carry.

QUOTE
Why does it take a simple action to change modes?

See previous assessment of time in combat.

QUOTE
What happens if I reduce a weapon's concealability to one or below with accessories?

I'd say you can't conceal it. Generally weapons you reduce that low are the kinds of things you only carry when you don't care about them being seen, anyway. You can't even fit it under the long coat.

QUOTE
Are there rules for powered armour?

Sort of... but it only works under water most of the time.

QUOTE
Where is Dikote listed and how can I calculate cost?

Check the Applied Chemtech segment of Man and Machine.

QUOTE
How do trolls commit suicide?

Very carefully...

Well, seriously, you can inflict a wound of any severity on yourself if you have a weapon handy. Check out MitS the section on blood magic.
Crusher Bob
Let me get started.

[old man voice]
They're magazines, kid magazines
[/old man voice]
smile.gif

(IRL 'detachable box magazine' -> SR clip)

If you have a smart gun link (the cyber version) not just smart goggles, it's a free action to eject the magazine. Some people house rule that it is a free action to eject the magazine even without a smartlink.

The magazine holds ammunition in a specific order so if you wanted to you could load a 30 round magazine with, say, 10 gel 20 regular with the gel ammo being shot off first (not really good for much, beyond very special circumstances). Actually loading the rounds into the magazine can take a few minutes, so it's not something you want to do while being shot at. Basically, people will carry several preloaded magazines. When their weapon is empty, thel''y eject the old magazine and insert a new one.

For things that have internal magazines (shotguns, some rifles, etc) you actually have to load individual rounds into the magazine (IIRC you can load your quickness in rounds for a complex action).

Changing fire modes.

Once again, if you have a smartlink this is a free action.
Also, some people house rule it to take a free action, even without the smartgun link.

Powered armor
There are currently no rules in SR for powered armor, though you can look on the net for a few attempts at it either starting with 'military armor' (Fields of fire) or the vehicle rules (Rigger 3).

I don't reacal any cannon EMF/EMP weapons. (there may be a few antivehicular missiles that se EMF/EMP in Rigger 3).

Dikote is in Man and Machine, with a first appearance in Shadowtech.

For high body trolls that want to commit suicide, there's a rule buried somewhere that says that characters can inflict 'any level of damage' on themselves.



Crusher Bob
Egads, we swarm. rotfl.gif
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Apr 22 2004, 10:25 AM)
The magazine holds ammunition in a specific order so if you wanted to you could load a 30 round magazine with, say, 10 gel 20 regular with the gel ammo being shot off first (not really good for much, beyond very special circumstances).

I think there's a rule stating that "clips" (which, while not techinically correct, by 2063 will likely be in the dictionary as and widely accepted as the right term... it almost is right now) have to be all of one type of ammo.

[edit] Thought so:
QUOTE (SR3 p 116)
Ammunition cannot be mixed in a clip.  Each clip must contain only one type of ammo.
[/edit]
Lindt
Quite possibly the only ways to have more then 1 type of ammo in a weapon is either 2 clips (ala selectable clip option) or a revolver (ala Triple X).
Lilt
IIRC Tracer rounds can be mixed into clips.
Eyeless Blond
Except tracer bullets.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
It's a good idea to note weights for the ammo, too, so you can tell how much you can carry.

Keep in mind though that the weights (and the encumberance rules in general) are pretty poorly written; IMO almost everything except clothing is off by at least a factor of ~2.5 (eg. the difference between pounds and kilograms).
Method
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)

while not techinically correct, by 2063 will likely be in the dictionary as and widely accepted as the right term... it almost is right now....



too late:

clip n 1 : a device that grips, clasps, or hooks 2 : a cartridge holder for a rifle

©2000 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved

smile.gif
Lilt
That's not actually the same as a box magazine though, it's just where the term comes from.

IE: people heard of clips, and simply applied the term to box magazines even though it's not technically correct (DAMMN THEM!)...

What I want to know is roughly how much real-life ammunition weighs. I know it varies from caliber to caliber but I'd like to know what a more accurate weight for 10 rounds of AR ammo is. You can even get AV clips for machine pistols that weigh 4kgs, which I'm pretty sure isn't right. Anyone know about this? I've tried looking at Raygun's site but the only weights there are for the bullet itself rather than the cartridge-and-all (I think).
Moon-Hawk
I've never felt the need to change either of those actions into free actions. Flipping a switch, pushing a button, pulling a trigger, these are simple actions. In my opinion, for a non-smartlink user, switching clips with two simple actions is plenty generous. It certainly can't be done faster than you can fire two shots from a semi-auto.
Arethusa
It should be pointed out that that's not two shots from semi auto, but two somewhat aimed shots from semi auto. I've never even fired a real gun and I know I can squeeze off a lot more than 1 shot every 1.5 seconds.

Switching magazines in 3 seconds, assuming you drop one on the floor and just don't care, is really fine. Requiring an additional action to get that mag properly stowed is really the best way to keep reloading difficult enough to be more than a minor nuisance.

Method: that's actually correct. A clip clips together cartridges, but a magazine has an internal spring.
mcb
I always differentiated a clip from a magazine by the following: a clip is used to hold round together and aids in the quick replenishment of either an internal or detachable magazine. With detachable magazines clips usually work with the magazine in or out of the weapon. In most cases the clips very cheap and are disposed of after one use and never resides in the weapon. The M-1 Garand’s end-block clip is the only clip I can think of that is loaded into the magazine with the ammunition and acts very similar to a magazine. A magazine on the other hand is an ammo container that is usually spring loaded and has rounds striped from it directly into the chamber for firing.

Moon clip that hold rounds together for quick revolver reloads are another clip that gets loaded into a weapon.

I don’t think there are any active US service weapons that have their ammo issued in clips any more. Can anyone think of one?

mcb
Arethusa
A magazine must be spring loaded and clip can't be. That's really the technical difference. You have the right idea, though. Just for your information, it's en bloc, though its pronunciation is anglicized.

And, no, I don't believe there are any US weapons that still use clips, unless you want to be silly and count boxes of linked ammunition for machine guns.
mcb
Not all magazine are spring feed either. I thought of a couple example. Some WWII japanese LMG used gravity fed box magazine. The orginal 45-70 gatlin gun used gravity fed magazine. The 40mm bofurs AA gun on ships in WWII used gravity fed magazines. Not great example but...

Clips fed magazines, magazines fed weapons. smile.gif
Arethusa
That's a good point, actually. The spring-required definition was one I'd been introduced to, but it does have its outliers. Still, given how dodgy some of this can get, it's safe to just say that those are far from the norm. At least, that is, until I hear a solid and inclusive definition.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (Lilt)
What I want to know is roughly how much real-life ammunition weighs. I know it varies from caliber to caliber but I'd like to know what a more accurate weight for 10 rounds of AR ammo is. You can even get AV clips for machine pistols that weigh 4kgs, which I'm pretty sure isn't right. Anyone know about this? I've tried looking at Raygun's site but the only weights there are for the bullet itself rather than the cartridge-and-all (I think).

Well, like you said, it varies. smile.gif Then there's the difference between cased and caseless -- a really big deal especially with rifle rounds where the weight of the case may make half or more of the total cartridge weight. With Caseless rifle rounds up to and including Sniper Rifle ammunition you could reduce weight by half. With other ammunition, you could reduce it by 15% to 40% -- least with large caliber and pistol ammunition.

Even cased ammo will weigh less. Polymer cases are already being developed, and something similar is likely to be common with cased rounds in the 2060s. You could reduce cartridge weight of cased ammo by half of what the respective caseless ammo reduces the RL weight by. If RL AR ammo weighed 120 grams per 10 rounds, SR caseless AR ammo might weigh 60 grams per 10 and SR cased AR ammo 90g.

This is not an exact science, however. Here follows a few common cartridge weights, taken from this Technical Manual.


The current NATO Standard 5.56x45mm M855 FMJ/Ball rounds weigh 190gr or 12.31 grams each. 10 of those particular rounds thus weigh 123 metric grams or 0.123 metric kilograms. A very large part of that is case weight (suggest -50%/-25% caseless/cased for SR, 0.06/0.09kg per 10 rounds). AP rounds for this (M995) weigh almost exactly the same.

US 7.62x51mm M59 FMJ/Ball weighs 393gr, the M993 Armor Piercing (not sabot though) weighs 363gr. That's 255 grams for 10 rounds of M59, 235 grams for 10 rounds of M993. The case makes up a lot of it, so perhaps -50%/-25% for 0.13/0.19 caseless/cased per 10 rounds of regular (MMG & Sporting Rifle ammunition, mostly).

9mm Parabellum M882 NATO FMJ/Ball weighs 179gr. That's 0.116kg for 10 rounds. The case nominally weighs 57gr (~32%), so I suggest 0.08kg/0.1kg caseless/cased 10 rounds of Light Pistol regular ammo -- I do not want to get into a debate about what counts as Light Pistol ammunition at this time.

.45 ACP M1911 FMJ/Ball weighs 331gr. I would never consider this a Heavy Pistol round myself, but the weight might well be representative of one (even 10x25 Normas weigh significantly less, and I still don't want to argue about this). That's 0.214kg for 10 rounds. The case is a very small part of this, so I suggest 0.18/0.2kg caseless/cased for 10 Regular Heavy Pistol rounds.

Military issue 12 Gauge shotgun double-ought shot ammunition weighs between 736 and 930 grains per round. That's max 60.26 grams per round, or 0.603kg per 10 rounds. The case weight is likely to be a rather small part of this, I suggest 0.5-0.55kg for both cased and caseless per 10 Shotgun Shot rounds.

For the 12.7x99mm/.50BMG, Ball and (non-saboted) Armor Piercing ammunition average around 1770gr. That's 1.15kg per 10 rounds. The case weighs somewhere slightly under 50% of the whole cartridge, I suggest 0.65kg/0.85kg per 10 rounds of Regular HMG ammunition.

The 12.7x99mm/.50BMG M903 Saboted Light Armor Penetrator ("APDS") round weighs 1466gr, 0.95kg per 10. I suggest 0.45kg/0.65kg per 10 rounds of Barrett M121 or HMG APDS ammunition.

The Autocannon rounds are fricken massive. The ones listed in the Technical Manual are also likely to be quite a lot bigger than you'd see in Assault Cannons in SR, so I won't bother doing them up.

Not that a 5.56x45mm cartridge will still weigh 160gr if you cut the projectile weight in half (a teeny-weeny APDS), which is only a drop of 15% in ammo weight. On the other hand, dropping 50% off the weight of the bullet in a Heavy Pistol round might shave off 35% or even more of the total cartridge weight. That's serious micro-managing though, and most likely not worth anyone's while to ponder about.

[Edit]As for what a Free Action or Simple Action is: It's a Free Action to Drop Prone. You try doing that before I can press on the little switch that's right under my thumb -- all it takes to release a magazine. Or even before I switch this here USP replica from Safe to Semi -- a one-inch flick of my thumb.

Other Free Actions that certainly aren't faster than releasing a magazine/changing mode of fire include Drop Item and Gesture.[/Edit]
Austere Emancipator
Other cartridges:

LMGs fire AR ammunition. SMGs fire Light Pistol ammunition (yeah yeah, whatever, it's not an exact science like I said).

I suppose you could approximate Sniper Rifle ammunition to ~.338 Lapua Magnum, the most common larger caliber in sniper rifles IRL. It seems a single .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge weighs somewhere around 44 grams (couldn't find a good source). That's 0.44kg for 10, and thus I suggest 0.22kg/0.33kg for 10 caseless/cased Sniper Rifle Regular rounds.

Hold-outs are tricky, because they could theoretically be firing anything between such tiny little rounds as .22s or as big as .357 Magnums, as discussed in the late Hold Out Pistols thread. Since they are so insanely weak, I'll use .22s for weight comparison:
The US .22LR M24 FMJ/Ball round weighs 53gr, 0.034kg for 10. In other words, when someone carries less than a hundred such rounds, just forget their weight.

[Edit]Am I the only one who finds it funny that the Technical Manual says the following under the Mk 211 Mod 0 round (capable of penetrating 1cm of rolled homogenous steel armor at 1000 meters) for .50BMG weapons: "This cartridge provides improved penetration performance against enemy personnel and light armor vehicles."

Where a single .50BMG Ball round can only penetrate and kill 4 enemy soldiers, the Mk 211 can penetrate and kill 7, and with a good spray pattern?[/Edit]
RedmondLarry
(3) Bolt action Rifles. There are some bolt-action rifles, and they should fire in SS mode, but if they did that then no one would use them. So the writers have determined that the Remington 750 and Remington 950 (SR3.278) use "smooth bolt-action" are are SA.

(8 ) Dikote Bullets. Yes, you could try to dikote bullets, but if you succeeded then they wouldn't mushroom properly in the target and would do less damage.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (OurTeam)
Yes, you could try to dikote bullets, but if you succeeded then they wouldn't mushroom properly in the target and would do less damage.

This is only an issue with bullets that are supposed to deform and/or fragment in the first place. Such bullets would generally not enjoy the heat involved in the Dikoting process, because, AFAIK, soft lead-like alloys get rather runny when you get close to 1000 degrees C.

You could easily consider all Regular ammunition to be Full Metal Jacketed, and constructed in such a way as to not fragment easily in human beings, in which case Dikoting them would not cause any significant hindrance to their effectiveness. Neither would it significantly add to their effectiveness -- but who cares! Dikoted bullets, w00t!
Eyeless Blond
Also keep in mind that cannon rules for dikote are already ten years or so out of date. The army can already dikote plasitcs, so I'm fairly sure lead shouldn't be a problem.
Arethusa
The rules for dikoting clearly don't follow reality. You can't really call them out of date when the diamon practically has to be awakened to function as it does in dikoting.
Austere Emancipator
Well, the army can't reall Dikote plastics. It can put a diamond covering on plastics, but that's really not the same. To be Real Dikote™, it needs to be done in a furnace.
Arethusa
The furnace is what gets the diamond very angry to give you that +1 damage level.
Abstruse
When I use typed-up character sheets (just typing the character info in Notepad or Word), I usually denote it like this:

Weapon Name / Con Rating / Damage code / Fire Rate / Ammo Load / Accessories and ammo / Total cost of the item

EG:

Ares Preditor Con4 9M SA 15c w/ Laser Sight & 20 clips reg 10 clips expl 2300¥

Thus I have 300 rounds of regular ammunition loaded into 20 clips and 150 rounds of explosive ammunition loaded into 10 clips. It makes it easier to play that way in a more abbreviated notation (rather than noting that I bought 30 boxes of regular ammo, 15 boxes of explosive ammo, and 30 spare clips), and I like having the cost for everything I buy listed so I or my GM can quickly double-check what I've spent to make sure I haven't gone over/under what I think I have.

The Abstruse One
John Campbell
QUOTE (Arethusa)
The furnace is what gets the diamond very angry to give you that +1 damage level.

Y'know, I think that's the most sensible explanation for it that I've ever heard.
kuroko
QUOTE (FXcalibur)
There are too many and too broad in subject, so everything goes here smile.gif

1) About clips. So let's say I have an Ingram Warrior 10 and I think I need spare clips. I buy 2 of them for 10 nuyen. okay, that part is fine, but what confuses me is the reloading procedure.

1 simple action to eject clip, one to stuff fresh clip in. But why simple action? Don't pistols have some kind of ejector button in a really easy to reach position? It's a simple press, hardly deservering of a simple action (IMHO, of course). In fact, couldn't your other hand go for a spare mag...clip... while you eject the current one?

Okay, maybe ejecting a clip is a simple action because you need to grab it and stuff it back nto your pants to save the remaining ammo, or something similar. If so then why is ejecting a smartgun clip the same action but considered a Free Action?

2) Again, clips. How do I list clips? Do I need to specify what ammo I have in each clip (or each loaded gun at character creation, for that matter), like:

Ingram Warrior-10
/w 30rnds Flechette
2 Ingram Warrior-10 Clips
/w 60rnds Flechette
4 Ingram Warrior-10 Clips
/w 120rnds Gel

Or do I reload from a 'pool' of bullets, a la FPS games?

"Iron Angel, your Warrior 10 has run outta bullets. Reload?"
"Yeah sure. Uh, I bought two spare clips..."

Character Sheet lists:
2 spare Ingram Warrior clips
100 rounds standard
50 rounds flechette

"I'll reload with...um...flechette."

Character sheet turns into:
1 spare Ingram Warrior clip
1 empty Ingram Warrior clip
100 rounds standard
20 rounds flechette

Which one is it? indifferent.gif

3) Why does it take a simple action to change modes? Firearms can have double triggers (older ones), and firing SA and FA could simply be a matter of holding down the trigger (yeah, i know there's a dedicated SA mode for RL firearms). Also, SS weapons include single action and bolt action weapons, right? Or does single and bolt action no longer exist in 206X?

4) What happens if I reduce a weapon's concealability to one or below with accessories? Like slapping on a gas vent 4 on a 2 Conceal AR along with a scope and underbarrel smartlink. Does it become immediately apparent, no test required? (a la miniguns or rocket launchers). If a weapon drops to conceal zero or below, what happens when the character wears a long coat?

5) Why is assault cannon ammo so easy to spot? It can't be larger; it's supposed to fit in the same gun and chamber as that standard ammo sitting over there.

6) Are there rules for powered armour? What about more exotic things like jump jets (Hey, we have cyberskates, right?), and even worse, what do I do if a player wants to invent something new, like aforementioned jump jets?

7) Are there EMP weapons?

8 ) Where is Dikote listed and how can I calculate cost? While on the matter, can I Dikote bullets?

9) If I hold a holdout to someone's head and tell em to freeze, and they freeze, do I still need to roll to determine the accuracy (with penalties for call shot even) of my shot, or is it a clean hit?

10) I've seen trolls with really high body. How do trolls commit suicide? Holding a pistol to your head when you have 20 odd body can't be the answer.

I think I got more, but I'll ask em as I remember em. These are at the top of my head right now. Thanks in advance wink.gif

First of all - it's been nearly a year since I last posted, so if something looks wacky I'm llearning the new interface.

QUOTE
1 simple action to eject clip, one to stuff fresh clip in. But why simple action? Don't pistols have some kind of ejector button in a really easy to reach position? It's a simple press, hardly deservering of a simple action (IMHO, of course). In fact, couldn't your other hand go for a spare mag...clip... while you eject the current one?


The house rule I played with was if you were in a hurry you could thumb out the clip and reload a new one on the fly, but you left the old clip behind (it just landed on the ground). This includes the fingerprints and markings on it.

QUOTE
Ingram Warrior-10 
/w 30rnds Flechette 
2 Ingram Warrior-10 Clips 
/w 60rnds Flechette 
4 Ingram Warrior-10 Clips 
/w 120rnds Gel 
 
Or do I reload from a 'pool' of bullets, a la FPS games?


GM discretion - I've played under both.

Of course now I have to ask why you're `carrying different smg's.


QUOTE
5) Why is assault cannon ammo so easy to spot? It can't be larger; it's supposed to fit in the same gun and chamber as that standard ammo sitting over there.


I call them 'soda cans of doom' - and that's an understatement of their size.
Think of something a little smaller than a football.

Austere Emancipator
I didn't give the stats on a 20mm above for weights, but I might as well give the measurements. US 20mm cannon rounds are between 16.5cm and 18.5cm (6.5" - 7.3") long, depending on the cannon and the round, and 2.5cm - 3cm thick, weighing ~0.2kg-0.26kg each. 10 of those is a unit 30cm high by 3cm thick by 17.5cm long. Easily the size of a SMG, and weighs up to around 2.5kg. Plus the magazine that holds them.
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