Greetings once more, Dumpshockers.

The following pertains to SR4/4.5:
I've recently come up with a character idea, but am a bit confused on the rules regarding a key negative quality: Carrier. It repeatedly mentions different strains and how they affect people. It goes on to distinguish 3 key strains (Vamp/Nos, Werewolf, and Ghoul), as well as the types of infected they result in, and expressly stating that nobody can be immune to ALL strains of HMHVV. However, in the associated fluff, rather than mentioning a Carrier infected with HMHVV Type II (the "werewolf" strain that causes Loup-Garou in humans and similar in other metatypes), it mentions a human carrier infected with a sub-strain for a different metatype's expression of the Type II strains. It also briefly mentions that the Type I and Type II are a collection of very similar strains without deliniating each sub-strain.

My character archetype is that of a would-be celebrity that was maliciously infected by the machinations of a jealous rival, and while not expressing Infected qualities is still a pariah due to being a Carrier of one or two strains. For the purposes of this character, would I be able to simply select, say, Type III (Ghoul, universally affects all metavariants but not non-humanoids like Centaur, Shifters, and Pixies) as a "carried" strain that does not affect the character, while still being vulnerable to Vampire/Nosferatu (Type I) transformation? Or would I have to select a sub-strain, such as "Bandersnatch" or "Banshee" that, of a strain that overall can affect a human, would not be the specific Infection that transforms a human to a Vampire/Nos? It is intended that this character will potentially and purposefully infect targets as a form of "soft" assassination, but I do not plan to go overboard on picking a menagerie of infections to carry.

Thusly, how would the Carrier quality work in relation to this character concept?

Carrier pretty much outright says, you carry the infection... but you are not 'infected' yourself (and don't get those benefits and drawbacks). Either because you've already expressed as a different type of infected and can only carry other strains after you've expressed... or because you have some kind of unexplained immunity and didn't express the strain(s) you're carrying. More or less you're a 'Typhoid Mary'.


I don't know about the bits you were talking about at the start... I thought it was fully possible for someone to have carrier(ghoul) but not be one.


So you'd simply pick two strains which you are somehow immune to... but can infect anyone around you with.

Essentially, as an uninfected, you can be a Carrier for anything which you are incapable of expressing. It depends, ultimately, on what metatype (or even sapient critter) you're planning to play as.

You'll always be vulnerable to the specific substrains that affect your specific metatype. An uninfected Human will always express as a Vampire, Nosferatu, Loup-Garou, and Ghoul if exposed to those specific strains. Everything else, however, you can be a Carrier for - with the exception of the so-called "Special Infected". (It does seem weird to me that a Banshee cannot turn a Human victim into a Vampire, despite both forms of Infected stemming from HMHVV I, but the rules do spell it out pretty plainly that this is the case.)

Sapient Critters are perhaps the best choice for carrying as many strains as possible, because they are unable to express any of them, and can therefor be Carriers for all of them. (Except for Sasquatches, who can express as Bandersnatchii and therefor cannot carry that particular substrain of HMHVV II.)

And Falconer, to my knowledge, all Metahumans will express as Ghouls if exposed to the Ghoul substrain of HMHVV III. So a Human victim can be infected by a Troll Ghoul just as easily as a Human one.

~Umi

Let me ponder this; I hadn't actually had much of a chance to think about the Carrier quality. I think it would have been different had I had any input back in the day.

Didnt in 3e and previous, the HMHVV I virus make all of the variations on the regular vampire as it applied to the various metahumans? IE A human vampire infecting an elf resulted in a banshee, and then that banshee can go on to infect a troll and make a Dzoo-noo-qua?

I thought there was only 2 strains of HMHVV-I: regular and Bruckner-Langer(Nosferatu strain, which could also affect elves); 1 strain of HMHVV-II, and 1 strain of HMHVV-III/Krieger.

It got more ... complex. And a lot more complex than I think it should be. Still pondering all this between other gigs.

So, basically, I just opened up an expired can of worms? Needed to know if it was still good, but a bit unpleasant to deal with?

To be honest with you, I like the concept of an HMHVV "Typhoid Mary" type, and have even fiddled with the idea a bit myself, but nothing's ever really come of it for me. At least not yet; as stories progress, it's not out of the question this kind of character could show up in my stuff.

But I dig the concept. I could see someone being a Type III Carrier; that would take a minimum of hand-wavium, in my opinion. Got scratched/bitten, managed a whole lot of disease resistance rolls, and now has it stuck in his system, waiting for something to do. And I could see being a carrier for Type II, again pretty easily.

As for the various sub-strains of different types of HMHVV -- wasn't a fan, and it kind of contradicted some of the previous canon. I'm working on that. My personal view is that you've got Strain I, Ia, II, and III. A vampire, in my view, can bite an elf and they'll become a banshee. A troll can bite a human and make a vampire. A loup-garou can bite a troll and make a fomoraig. Working on clearing that up and making sure I don't break something else in the process. Canon is a harsh mistress....

I just wanted to point out Natural Immunity, which explicitly mentions that the character still can infect others...but "Natural Immunity does not affect diseases or toxins which are magically based, such as HMHVV."

Still, from a fluff perspective it sounds entirely reasonable to ignore that restriction and explain it as some quirk of nature...plenty of negative qualities to go along with that

Well my thoughts earlier in the thread were...

If someone makes the test for ghoul'ism and resists the disease but lets say glitches the resistance test somehow. They could potentially turn into a carrier. (somehow immune to it themselves but still carrying it). Typhoid Mary


That's why I was asking if it's stated anywhere that if you catch it you will absolutely either express or eliminate it completely... with emphasis on completely. I can't think of anything anywhere which states that the disease is an absolute. But if others know of it... I can very easily be wrong.

Nothing that I've found, Falconer.