CanRay
Mar 26 2013, 06:30 PM
So, midnight sale at the last shop in Winnipeg that rents (I started buying from there so that they can stay in business, hopefully!), and picked this up.
A FPS with a
STORYLINE, and a protagonist that
ISN'T silent! I'm amazed!
Also, for being locked up in a tower all her life, Elizabeth is remarkably useful in combat situations. Also, she shares every PC's Klepto tendencies. And tries to brain the first intruder she ever had with a book on Quantum Physics (In
1912!!!) I approve!
Also, free Bioshock 1.
_Pax._
Mar 26 2013, 06:42 PM
Yeah, I played it for nearly eight hours this morning (from 12:05am to 7:45am), and will shortly be diving back in.
Lots of fun. A bit more frenetic than I like during the big fights (I'm a camper at heart, I hate being so easily and quickly flanked like Infinite allows), and sometimes I wish Elizabeth would stop throwing me coins JUST AS I'M ABOUT TO SEARCH SOMETHING, argh! (Really, the woman has no sense of timing - that, or she's a closet sadist.)
But overall, very very good.
CanRay
Mar 26 2013, 07:03 PM
She grew up in a tower with a giant steampunk robotic bird for company. She's surprisingly well socially adapted considering that!
CanRay
Mar 27 2013, 01:06 PM
*Sighs* Do to a heavy fear of sleep (Don't ask), I beat it this morning. I'm blown away from the storyline completely!
DamHawke
Mar 27 2013, 04:09 PM
I'm itchy to start playing but I'm still downloading my copy. Curse my crappy internet.
tasti man LH
Mar 27 2013, 09:43 PM
And I continue to plot to raid my citys' Redboxes to find a copy, since I has no monies to buy one myself.
CanRay
Mar 27 2013, 10:03 PM
Well, I'm certainly interested in thinking about the implications of the game quite a bit, and I have to say that it's been a long time since any form of media made me think about this type of situation in a long time.
This one will be a keeper, and I'm wondering what kind of DLC/Expansion Packs are due out for it now. And, yes, there will be some, there's a Season's Pass.
tasti man LH
Mar 27 2013, 10:43 PM
I imagine it's themes would seem all the more relevant, considering the current socio-political climate of things.
CanRay
Mar 27 2013, 10:51 PM
QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Mar 27 2013, 05:43 PM)
I imagine it's themes would seem all the more relevant, considering the current socio-political climate of things.
A bit, yes, but it's other parts that got me thinking. I think too much about the world's current state (too much for my mental health.
), it's a very deep game.
In the "rabbit hole" sense.
Wounded Ronin
Mar 27 2013, 11:23 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 26 2013, 01:30 PM)
Also, for being locked up in a tower all her life, Elizabeth is remarkably useful in combat situations. Also, she shares every PC's Klepto tendencies. And tries to brain the first intruder she ever had with a book on Quantum Physics (In 1912!!!) I approve!
LOL, empowerment fantasy for the modern urban man, who spends his life locked up in an (apartment) tower with more access to heavy books than real weapons.
KarmaInferno
Mar 27 2013, 11:51 PM
Grr, trying to finish 100% completion on Tomb Raider so I can trade in for this...
-k
CanRay
Mar 28 2013, 04:02 AM
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Mar 27 2013, 06:23 PM)
LOL, empowerment fantasy for the modern urban man, who spends his life locked up in an (apartment) tower with more access to heavy books than real weapons.
I'd resemble that, but I rent a room in a house.
X-Kalibur
Mar 28 2013, 06:15 AM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 27 2013, 02:51 PM)
A bit, yes, but it's other parts that got me thinking. I think too much about the world's current state (too much for my mental health.
), it's a very deep game.
In the "rabbit hole" sense.
In terms of gameplay, please compare it to Bioshock 1 for me.
CanRay
Mar 28 2013, 06:31 AM
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 28 2013, 01:15 AM)
In terms of gameplay, please compare it to Bioshock 1 for me.
Very similar, you have "Magic" powers, called "Vigors" in this game, but can only carry two different weapons at a time rather than the arsenal that you had in Bioshock. Also, you don't get health packs or Eve syringes that were in Bioshock, so you're much more careful about health and "Salt" (mana) in this game.
On the flipside, you also have shields that regenerate. They're smaller than your health (even when maxed out!), so it's not game-breaking. Cover is your friend!
The area is much less claustrophobic than Rapture, but Agoraphobics (like myself) will not like the difference. The Skyline system is quite inventive, but can be a pain when you're trying to figure out where to go. "Do I jump on this line? That one? Which direction?", but that could just be me. Also, the skyline "hook" you get in the game is also your Melee weapon, which is a nice thing, and the "Executions" are quite interesting!
Clothing replaces "Tonics" from Bioshock 1, but you can only have a hat, shirt, pants, and boots. It can be quite difficult to figure out which to want.
Also, despite Elizabeth being with you through most of the game, it is
NOT a constant escort mission. She holds her own (despite being a non-combative), and passes you quite useful items at times. ("Son of a, I'm almost out of... Thank you freaky girl with a thimble for a finger! I needed those Hand Cannon rounds!").
There's no Vita Chamber, but Elizabeth will heal you up if you get "killed", which considering her powers, and the weird syringe she seems to use, as well as the cost in money for it, is a nice break from the "slap on the wrist" that the vita chambers had. Hell, I figured Rapture would have charged me out the *** for respawns! And also explains how she does it in-universe.
So, essentially, same but different, with some nice add-ons.
_Pax._
Mar 28 2013, 12:42 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 28 2013, 02:31 AM)
Very similar, you have "Magic" powers, called "Vigors" in this game, but can only carry two different weapons at a time rather than the arsenal that you had in Bioshock. Also, you don't get health packs or Eve syringes that were in Bioshock, so you're much more careful about health and "Salt" (mana) in this game.
On the flipside, you also have shields that regenerate. They're smaller than your health (even when maxed out!), so it's not game-breaking. Cover is your friend!
The shields at max, are equal to yoru healtht at the beginning of the game (in my current playthrough, I consciously decided to build those up to 11, before adding to Health or Salts).
Oh, and: because you don't carry around syringes of EVE or medkits, the various snack/drink items laying about are more important for survival.
...
Oh, one other thing "missing" in Infinite:
no hacking ... damnit. All the lock-picking is done by Elizabeth, and simply costs a specified number of lockpicks (which you pick up in 1's and 2's and 3's around the gameworld).
X-Kalibur
Mar 28 2013, 03:28 PM
The plumbing... ahem... hacking in Rapture was a bit bland. I ended up getting a refund check yesterday that I was expecting so perhaps I'll get Infinite.
CanRay
Mar 28 2013, 04:19 PM
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Mar 28 2013, 07:42 AM)
Oh, one other thing "missing" in Infinite: no hacking ... damnit. All the lock-picking is done by Elizabeth, and simply costs a specified number of lockpicks (which you pick up in 1's and 2's and 3's around the gameworld).
To be fair, neither Booker or Elizabeth have experience with vending machines in their life, so hacking is not possible.
That said, the first Vigor you get can be used on the machines.
_Pax._
Mar 28 2013, 06:47 PM
Yeah, I don't like the Possession vigor for the simple reason: it's too easy. I liked having to look around, and figure out a good approach to a camera or turret, minimising my exposure time, in order to hack it. Now, though? Clear across the area map, WHAM, turret is mine, WHAM, Motorized Patriot is on my side, etc.
And they had a great mechanic available to them - the same kind of puzzles they used in Industrial Revolution.
Wounded Ronin
Mar 29 2013, 05:49 AM
So, knowing that I wouldn't be able to play this game for a very long time, I decided to simply watch someone play it on YouTube.
I got engrossed just from watching and ended up watching like 3 or 4 40 minute installments while working on other stuff.
It seems like an excellent game.
But, yeah, Elizabeth kind of strikes me like some kind of fantasy for guys who want a smart, nice, empowered girlfriend who nevertheless likes them and feels the need to hang around and depend on them for some things. The closest real world analogue might be some young lady who's been locked up in some ivy league university with domineering, wealthy parents. Considered in this light, Elizabeth seems to take gory and lethal massacre-firefights with, like, ravens eating people alive and decapitation and shotguns at closer range very, very well. In stride, even.
Which is just fine...I mean, that's why it's entertainment.
CanRay
Mar 29 2013, 07:23 AM
The fantasy gets really tainted real quick at the end, I assure you.
tasti man LH
Mar 29 2013, 09:41 AM
...well then, my thumbs hurt for playing this game nonstop for 8 hours.
Really need to stop and sleep, but all I can say is that this game is awesome: DAMN awesome.
X-Kalibur
Mar 30 2013, 02:50 AM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 29 2013, 12:23 AM)
The fantasy gets really tainted real quick at the end, I assure you.
Without spoiling anything for anyone else... While I appreciated the writing quite a bit, I still saw the plot twists coming from a mile away. Nihil novi sub sole.
tasti man LH
Mar 30 2013, 07:10 AM
Just finished it.
...
HO.LY.SHIT.
To me, this game is a shining example of video games being an experience. And that video games don't have to be about JUST killing dudes in cool ways, solving puzzles in colorful environments and in unique ways, or to simulate/roleplay as something that you aren't in real life.
Going to need a bit of time to process things: that ending was a doozy.
One thing to warn people about this one though: there are lots, and LOTS of wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey...stuff.
And:
[ Spoiler ]
that a Bioshock multiverse is officially canon thanks to this game.
CanRay
Mar 30 2013, 06:02 PM
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 29 2013, 09:50 PM)
Without spoiling anything for anyone else... While I appreciated the writing quite a bit, I still saw the plot twists coming from a mile away. Nihil novi sub sole.
I probably would have, but my brain isn't exactly in good shape right now.
I also just realized how RACIST the naming/advertising of the weapons are in-universe. Really, there are levels upon levels in this game that you just don't get things on the single playthrough. I think the "Broadsider" pistol (The Broomhandle Mauser) is the only one that doesn't have any negative implications to it.
X-Kalibur
Mar 30 2013, 08:50 PM
The racism is rampant (and appropriate) throughout the game. While I powered through the game I did catch quite a bit of thing in it (hearing Fortunate Son as a slave hymn was awesome). I did miss the Bioshock 1 feel of upgraded weapons looking different and the randomness of the clothing wore on me a little. You could end up getting awesome stuff (30% faster reload pants, 40% chance for salts on kill) or much less useful stuff that involves doing jump kills which you can't use in most fights.
CanRay
Mar 30 2013, 08:52 PM
I was missing the upgraded weapons as well, until I realized that you don't carry the whole arsenal like you do in Bioshock 1. As you switch out from enemy weapons frequently, it'd be hard to implement.
Maybe in the NextGen Consoles/PC games. Yes yes, I know they could do it now for PC Games, but the market that sells today is Console.
Except for Kickstarted Indie Games, which is why I'm happy for them!
...
I really need a new time sink, too.
bannockburn
Apr 16 2013, 02:57 PM
Just ... wow.
I sat baffled for 2h after finishing it.
Do NOT read the spoilers if you haven't finished the game!So many details ...
[ Spoiler ]
...some of which go back to Bioshock 1, such as Songbird's dying screech being audible in an area of the game.
The numbers are mind-numbing, too. Combination to unlock the capsule in the lighthouse? 1-2-2. Number of heads thrown in the coin-toss? 122, yours being the 123rd. Alludes to 122 dead or failed Bookers, IMO. Constants and variables, indeed.
I found the general theme progressed logically from the first game(s). In Bioshock's Rapture, we have the extreme extrapolation of Ayn Rand's 'ideals' (if you want to call a flawed and hypocritical philosophy that) represented by Andrew Ryan and Fontaine, and the atheism and self-reliance of the people there lead to a moral abyss of horrible depths. In Columbia, on the other hand, racism and misogyny is rampant.
[ Spoiler ]
QUOTE
"Quantum Mechanics", the little lady says.
(We say, it's more like Women's Intuition)
QUOTE
Solving the Irish problem
QUOTE
Don't be a Dimwit
They hate black people, the Irish, Jews, Native Americans, the Chinese and basically everything that's not American At Heart As Given By The Founders.
It's the other extreme, religious zeal and Manifest Destiny extrapolated to the final consequence.
A candy-colored, happy city, full of horrible ideals, directly under the surface.
[ Spoiler ]
And again, Ayn Rand gets a sideways nod with the name of the Vox Populi. Considering how the revolutionaries act once they are victorious, it appears as if someone (understandably) really doesn't like her
My conclusion: Irrational Games really know how to make people think about their material. And they are very, very skilled in crafting nightmarishly dystopian settings that look pretty on the outside but quickly become a bloody and awful mess.
I approve.
CanRay
Apr 16 2013, 03:18 PM
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Apr 16 2013, 09:57 AM)
Irrational Games really know how to make people think about their material. And they are very, very skilled in crafting nightmarishly dystopian settings that look pretty on the outside but quickly become a bloody and awful mess.
I approve.
"Welcome to what we think a Utopia is. Now, let's see how badly humans can **** it up."
tasti man LH
Apr 28 2013, 08:59 AM
Found this link that compiles together a couple of theories on just what the hell is up with Bioshock Infinite's ending.
http://www.ign.com/wikis/bioshock-infinite..._source=twitter Don't you just LOVE wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimeys?
nezumi
Apr 28 2013, 03:44 PM
I finished the game and I was not impressed. The gameplay was simplistic and repetitive. The storyline was okay. The wrap-up was internally inconsistent, and left huge gaps without explanation. The only part of the game I really enjoyed was the setting, which was beautiful. I feel like it's somewhere between Avatar and Lost; beautiful, makes you want to 'uncover the mystery', but ultimately pretty shallow.
Yes, I do love wibbly-wobbly-time-wimeys -- when they're thought all the way through and make sense. But Bioshock was caught up in the narrative imperative. An hour after the game is done and the euphoria of the ending has faded, well ...
[ Spoiler ]
For example, infinity Elizabeth could have shot Booker in the foot before Wounded Knee, forcing him to sit it out, forcing him to miss out on the experience for which he required redemption, keeping him from needing it at all. Or alternatively, she could have killed Comstock immediately AFTER the baptism, saving Booker, an innocent man. She did neither, because the baptism is an exciting and symbolic moment.
The only theory I've seen which does address all of the bothers is that Elizabeth is actually using Booker as an Elizabeth-creation machine. Save Elizabeth, kill that Booker, send Booker on to rescue the next Elizabeth, etc., ad infinitum, with each rescue adding one more Elizabeth to the quickly growing army of omnipotent universe-jumping Elizabeths. Then it makes sense that they're killing him; they're tying up lose ends or preparing him for the next jump. It makes sense also why universes which violate the self-consistency principle still exist; because she's not killing baptism Comstock at all. She NEEDS Comstock for Elizabeth to be made omnipotent. But she needs the illusion of killing him in order to subdue Booker. The post-credit scene is Booker back as the host for the next Elizabeth, as the cycle begins again.
KarmaInferno
Apr 29 2013, 04:32 PM
[ Spoiler ]
I didn't get that from the ending at all.
The game was centered around choices. It wasn't until Booker CHOSE to allow himself to get drowned that Elizabeth Infinite actually did the deed.
Also, since the whole point was to eliminate Comstock from ever coming into existance, the post credits scene to me was showing a world where Comstock never came to take Elizabeth/Anna away, and thus never creating the sequence of events where she loses her pinky and becomes a cross-dimensional creature. Thus giving her and Booker a fresh start.
-k
nezumi
Apr 29 2013, 08:52 PM
[ Spoiler ]
By "I didn't get that ending at all", are you referring to the theory I describe in my second paragraph? No, I didn't get it like that at all either until someone else put that theory forward and I read it. It's the only theory I've seen so far that's internally consistent.
It could indeed be about choices, but the point is, the choice to die then and there is one chosen for dramatic effect and art, but logically doesn't make sense. Again, Booker could have gone back in time and CHOSEN not to participate in Wounded Knee, equally destroying Comstock. If I take Bioshock as a piece of art which is beyond logical review, I agree with you. But I think they could have done better, so it is both a beautiful metaphor AND internally consistent.
As for the post-credits ... It's not internally consistent. Anna was born after the baptism. We know that because Comstock couldn't have a baby. However, if Booker died at the baptism, he couldn't have gone on to have Anna. It's not clear what should happen to Elizabeth either. The other Elizabeths disappear, presumably because they cease to have existed, so ours should as well. If she doesn't exist, who drowned Comstock?
A game-producer can't separate cause and effect and say 'wooo! Time travel!' Especially not for a group of college-educated adults, which is a majority of Bioshock's audience. I mean, if it was just a dumb action-shooter, sure. But it wasn't. It was clearly made to be a cerebral game. I just don't think they did a very good job of it.
X-Kalibur
Apr 29 2013, 09:13 PM
[ Spoiler ]
Infinite Universes though. In a finite number of universes Booker goes to the baptism and either accepts it (becomes Comstock) or refuses it (storyline as Booker recalls it). There are universes where Booker never even went to the baptism and Anna was also born. So I'd say it's rather consistent in that regards.
_Pax._
Apr 29 2013, 10:18 PM
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 29 2013, 03:52 PM)
[ Spoiler ]
As for the post-credits ... It's not internally consistent. Anna was born after the baptism. We know that because Comstock couldn't have a baby. However, if Booker died at the baptism, he couldn't have gone on to have Anna. It's not clear what should happen to Elizabeth either. The other Elizabeths disappear, presumably because they cease to have existed, so ours should as well. If she doesn't exist, who drowned Comstock?
[ Spoiler ]
The idea is that,
every version of Booker DeWitt who went through with the baptism, became Zachariah Comstock, founded Columbia, and turned into the despotic, fanatic Prophet.
So, every last version of Booker DeWitt who went through with the baptism,
has to die. At that very moment, that very point in time. Drowned in the very spot of that baptism,
so that the "birth" of Zachariah Comstock can never come to pass....
I happen to disagree with the causality of that, but I believe it is what the writers intended.
OH, also note: the Elizabeth who drowns you at the end? IS NOT "YOUR" ELIZABETH. She's missing something, on her neck.
Betcha didn't notice that, eh ...?
Neurosis
May 16 2013, 06:09 PM
Was I the only one really disappointed when in the end, when you visit a spiffed up version of...you know...you didn't also get to visit a next gen vision of Citadel Station and the Von Braun?
Tanegar
Sep 1 2013, 05:56 PM
So, I bought Bioshock Infinite yesterday, as GameStop was offering it for half off on their download service. Amusingly, it only installed a little utility that installed the game itself through Steam.
Just arrived at Monument Island. Having fun so far.
CanRay
Sep 1 2013, 07:30 PM
Did the guy hit on you by suggesting Gecko-Roman style wrestling?
Tanegar
Sep 1 2013, 10:47 PM
Er... you mean Greco-Roman? No, I haven't met anyone who suggested that.
CanRay
Sep 2 2013, 01:58 AM
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Sep 1 2013, 05:47 PM)
Er... you mean Greco-Roman? No, I haven't met anyone who suggested that.
Yeah, just woke up from my nap. Fingers didn't work yet.
And apparently he doesn't always do it.
Tanegar
Sep 2 2013, 03:27 AM
I have a weakness for blue-eyed brunettes, and man, Elizabeth is punching that button really hard. O.o
Tanegar
Sep 3 2013, 01:03 AM
Finished it.
[ Spoiler ]
So, how long did it take you to figure out the reveals? When I was fighting Slate, I idly wondered if Comstock would turn out to be a version of Booker DeWitt, but I didn't take it seriously. I didn't see the "Anna = Elizabeth" thing coming at all, and I never made the connection between the AD brand on the back of Booker's hand with the initials of Anna DeWitt. I assumed Anna was Booker's wife, and that she had either died or left him. I twigged to the fact that the two Lutece's were alternates of each other fairly early on, shortly after rescuing Elizabeth. As soon as I realized the woman was Rosalind Lutece, I knew the man had to be another version of her; remembering the statue of R. Lutece that changed from a man to a woman confirmed it for me.
The theory that nezumi quotes about the Elizabeths using Booker to make more Elizabeths doesn't jibe with the ending at all. As Booker drowns, the Elizabeths disappear one by one, to the accompaniment of single notes; the last note plays just as the scene fades to black, implying that the last Elizabeth vanished as well, since with Booker dead, none of the events in Columbia can have happened, including her life to that point.
I enjoyed it. It's a little too linear to go back and replay immediately, but I probably will replay it at some point.
CanRay
Sep 3 2013, 02:08 AM
And now to wait for the Noir-esque DLC in Rapture!
KarmaInferno
Sep 5 2013, 01:14 AM
Tanegar
Aug 28 2014, 11:21 PM
I just finished Burial At Sea, episode 2. Was Ken Levine on downers when he wrote the DLC?
[ Spoiler ]
Both episodes end with the player character dying.
Also: Jesus H. Christ fucking Tom Cruise in the ass while Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes cheer Him on, Frank Fontaine was a
monster.
Tanegar
Sep 3 2014, 08:25 PM
I finished my second playthrough of the main campaign yesterday. The ending doesn't make a whole lot of sense, the second time around. Elizabeth drowns Booker, ostensibly to prevent him from becoming Comstock... but this version of Booker already rejected the baptism. He's already past the decision-point; and, having seen Comstock's work, can presumably be relied upon to never reconsider his decision. So, what's Elizabeth's motivation for killing him, again?
X-Kalibur
Sep 4 2014, 09:07 PM
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Sep 3 2014, 01:25 PM)
I finished my second playthrough of the main campaign yesterday. The ending doesn't make a whole lot of sense, the second time around. Elizabeth drowns Booker, ostensibly to prevent him from becoming Comstock... but this version of Booker already rejected the baptism. He's already past the decision-point; and, having seen Comstock's work, can presumably be relied upon to never reconsider his decision. So, what's Elizabeth's motivation for killing him, again?
Wasn't it to prevent everything?
Tanegar
Sep 4 2014, 11:19 PM
That's what I'm saying: killing the player-character Booker doesn't actually prevent anything.
There are two factors: Booker's decision to either accept or reject the baptism, and Booker's personal timeline(s).
The Bookers who accept the baptism become Comstocks. The Bookers who reject it don't. The player-character Booker is one of the latter: one of the scenes Elizabeth takes you to after destroying the siphon is Booker's almost-baptism, where we see him reject it. The Booker who rescues Elizabeth already faced the choice of whether to become Comstock, and chose not to.
Additionally, in order to prevent a Booker from becoming a Comstock, he must be killed at a point in his timeline before his baptism. Again, in the player-Booker's personal timeline, even if he were going to become Comstock, it's too late. If he had chosen to accept the baptism, he would already be Comstock by the time the game opens, twenty years after Anna/Elizabeth's abduction.
Player-Booker wasn't Comstock, isn't Comstock, and will never be Comstock. Killing him accomplishes nothing.
X-Kalibur
Sep 5 2014, 12:22 AM
It deletes all the Bookers at that point in time. Then you have no Booker or Anna.
Tanegar
Sep 5 2014, 04:29 PM
How do you figure?
X-Kalibur
Sep 5 2014, 09:08 PM
If you don't kill all the Bookers that attended the baptism, regardless of if they became Comstock or not, to prevent a paradox you have to destroy them all. Then any remaining Bookers would only be ones that never even came to that point in time.
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