But I do have Windows 8. I wouldn't say it's a bad OS overall, just unnecessarily mediocre.

The metro interface is goofy, and you DO have to use it for some things (for example, search, Netflix, some control panel options, and it's the default for viewing images, videos, etc. That last part is fixable, but its an unnecessary PITA.)

The upgrade process is broken.

Windows 8 also destroyed its boot sector somehow, and was generally useless at either repairing windows, or recovering the data on the drive. (To be fair, Windows 7 couldn't recover the data either, and I don't know that it was Windows 8 specifically that broke it or that its repair feature was any worse than Windows 7, but it's been a while since I'd hit such a drive error, and it only took windows 8 two months.)

So right now, I don't trust it, I don't like it, and it's not intuitive. I'd say those are pretty heavy marks against it.

On the upside, it does move pretty fast, and it seems to run lighter than XP (that could be bias, because it LOOKS like it should run faster). Its little compatibility tool is handy too. I plan to put it in a VM and use it to run Windows games. It seems the perfect choice for that. But it's not my first choice for my primary, workhorse OS.

Good, not so good, even "utter crap" .... it's all nothing BUT personal opinions.

Some of them may be shared by many people. Others ... not so much.

But they're still just personal opinions.

(OTOH, I have seen what truly objectively horribad software looks like ... SotS2 .... I'm still mad about that pile of crapware ...!!)

If 8.1 permits booting into desktop again, i will be getting me some of that.
Even if i have to cheat me a start button and start menue via classic shell.

And yet... some PCs will be started up and ready for you to log in to before it hits the ground.

and that's what i want <.<
in reasonably sized please.
if needed be and i can get it silent, i will take a big huge powerfull monstrosity of a computer for 3000€ too, but i'd prefer a computer in small, tiny, cheap and not needing it's own thermo nuclear power plant . .

Tiny yet powerful .... Puget's ECHO II: http://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/echo/II_Intel/customize.php
(Mini-ITX smaller than some textbooks)

Silent ... Puget's Serenity: http://www.pugetsystems.com/serenity.php
(potentially quieter than a standard light-bulb - 11dB for the Serenity SPCR, 13dB for the light bulb!)

Silent, AND small? Serenity SPCR Mini ...!

You're welcome.

Echo II: 1350 Bucks if done to my specs, and i can't even swap the intel boxed cooler . .
Serenity: 2240 Bucks if done to my specs, and it's a pretty mediocre system in my eyes.
Oh, and don't forget: i am in germany, these american things don't work for me over here.

it's close but no cookie.

It's $1.31US to 1€, keep that in mind. So that EchoII would be only 1050€ (and, did you look at the size of it? 96mm by 222mm by 328mm ... about the size of two softbound SR4A core rulebooks!) ... while the Serenity is just under 1,710€. WAY under your stated budget limit.

As for the Serenity being "mediocre" ... did you go for the SPCR version, or the Professional version? The SPCR is all about QUIET, at the expense of all else. And "Quiet" generally pulls in teh opposite direction of "Power".

Keep in mind, the Serenity SPCR is as noisy as a standard lightbulb, and that's under full load; at idle, it's QUIETER than the bulb.


Hmm, I'll grant you that, but they might still be able to accommodate the differences - largely in terms of the power grid there, yes?

Anyway ... if you wanted to email them and enquire, they'll arrange just about ANY build. You'd be paying the American OEM markup of 30% to 40% over raw parts, AND then international shipping, so it's probably not the most economical way to go about it. But regardless ... if there's a place here that can do those kinds of machines ... I'm pretty sure there must be someplace in Europe that can, too.