So when trying to defeat a lock, you use locking, and if you have a autopicker you add the rating in dice to the roll.

So if your trying to defeat a maglock, do you also add the rating of the passkey to the roll?

Just to clarify, you use the Hardware skill to defeat a maglock, not the Locksmith skill (SR4a, page 263, Maglocks). Otherwise, provided the maglock is built with a card reader, I would say yes.

No, Maglock Passkeys are acting completely independent of the Hardware skill.

You just use Logic + Hardware OR the Maglock Passkey's Rating.

Bye
Thanee

so what toolkit would a burglar use on a maglock ?

autopicker I assume is for physical locks not electronic ones
thus giving you Logic + Hardware + picker rating

surely having a decent passkey would aid in your attempt to bypass a maglock
cause you sure as hell don't just walk up to a maglock and say "open Sesame!" then roll Logic + Hardware while waving your hands at it

An electronics tool kit.

Gotcha, ta

just had the Terminator film in mind, where young John Connor uses his credit card thingummy like a passcard to get cash / open doors etc.

Maglock passkey can work for the key-card maglocks.

Maglock sequencer can work for key-pad maglocks, but you still have to crack the darn thing open with your toolkit and hardware skillz

Sequencer is basically the same as a passkey, only for code locks.

The use of sequencers and passkeys is entirely optional, you can open a maglock with your electronics skill alone.

so, does electronics tool kit add a rating to the roll ? or is it the "interface" that allows the roll in the first place

It doesn't add a rating to the roll. I'm trying to find where in the book it says it requires the toolkit in the first place, and I'm coming up with nothing...

As there are no ratings, the tool kit allows the roll.
Or, you'd get -2 on the roll for not having the right tools, if you only have a leatherman or something

lost my leatherman in the middle of the Canadian plains outside Med Hat. damn it I miss that thing.

so no electronic version of the autopicker for non mechanical locks

Yes, but you can always hack them

Is there a book reference for this? It makes total sense, but I'm not finding anything like this in the actual book (SR4A) and I'm too lazy to look through the other books...

For card locks it does exist, the maglock passkey simply get inserted into the card slot and works its magic. Just like the gizmo from T2 you mentioned.

For locks with number pad, the maglock sequencer kinda works like an autopicker: You still need to open the case to attach the sequencer, but it saves your from manually rewiring the electronics.

I'm looking, too, because you made me curious.
In the Running the Shadows chapter, there is only a mention of an electronics tool kit for programming codekeys for standard locks.

A fitting example would be the Build/Repair table on p.138, where it says "Tools and / or parts are:"
Another point is on p. 335, where it says that a lockpick set is considered the 'necessary tools for the task'.

The rest is deduction. You can't open a hardened maglock with your fingernails, so I wouldn't allow a roll, because the tools are unavailable, as per the table.
The leatherman would be okay for opening the housing, but inadequate for disarming anti-tamper circuits or opening the lock itself.


This is incorrect.
The autopicker adds to your locksmith skill, or to your agility if you don't have the skill
Passkeys and sequencers use their own rating, nothing else.

Yeah, I totally agree with you here.

I understood that question as referring to some item which opens the lock by itself even if the character using it has no clue. If it referred to something adding its rating to the DP the answer is obviously no.

Okay, I understood it as a question if there's an item for maglocks that corresponds to the autopicker

sorry, yes, this is my question ..
apologies to OP for the de-railment.

I'm just wondering if there is a "sonic screwdriver" that you use to complement you LOGIC + H/W DP for opening electronic locks.
(if you happen to NOT have a pass keyy or do not have one of sufficient rating.)
**Edit**

Also say you have a rating 4 passkey vs a rating 5 maglock, can you not "wiggle it" a bit using Skill & tools to make it pop ?

You roll the Lock's 5 Dice vs. the Passkey's 4 Dice and whichever one has the highest hits wins. Ties go to the Lock, if I remember correctly (The defender). If the Passkey fails, it scrambles the lock so that it no longer works (So always purchase the highest Passkey you can afford, as it will be obvious to the next user if it failed).

No, it doesn't. It simply doesn't work. See p.263.
What you describe may be the result of a glitch, because the only thing in the rules that's vaguely similar is under the description of a Keycard Copier (on p.335)

I am sure I read that somewhere... Maybe a previous edition (or possibly even a different system altogether, would not be the first time)? Hmmm. Will go back and look again.

EDIT: Cannot find it in the Books of the current edition (at least the ones I have current access too). May have to expand my search to other game lines or previous editions when I get the chance. This is really bothering me, since I can see the text in my head. However, I'm Blond, so I guess it could just be a figment.

Basically what I was asking, the autopicker adds to your roll, so do any other of the items add to your roll, like the sequencer or passkey?

Again: No. Read p. 263, SR4a for a less condensed version.

No, The Sequencer and Passkey contest against the Hardware, independent of the User.

Looks like if subtlety is not necessary, and there's no anti-tamper circuits, there's no real skill needed at all to bypass a maglock then. As long as one is not overzealous in removing the case you're able to unlock the maglock without any skill tests.

Certainly not my late-night interpretation when I made my previous post in this thread.

Skill tests are still required, unless you want to trust the Sequencer or Passkey will work, which is not a forgone conclusion.

My understanding is that a maglock sequencer/passkey fools the maglock into thinking the sequencer/passkey is legitimate, like the maglock equivalent of spoofing an access ID. (Note that the mention of the sequencer on p. 263 says you can use the sequencer instead of cracking the case open, and rolls the sequencer Rating vs. the maglock Rating without any Hardware tests.) A Hardware + Logic skill roll bypasses the "authentication" part entirely and just trips the door release manually, similar to hotwiring a car rather than starting it with a key, which is where the necessary tools/Electronics toolkit aspect comes in.

To answer the OP's actual question: It helps if you think of the autopicker as, well, automated lockpicks (as opposed to a regular set of lockpicks). The extra automation helps to offset the "finickyness" of the process, which is where the bonus comes from. Electronics toolkits, on the other hand, are entirely manual and thus don't add a bonus to your roll. (I imagine that if you had some sort of device that functioned as an automatic Electronics toolkit, you might be able to apply the bonus the same way, but you don't get one with a "standard" toolkit.)

Edit: Re: the anti-tamper mechanism, the same reference that was made upthread specifies that the anti-tamper acts as an extra "layer" that you have to get through with a separate Hardware + Logic roll. One roll to disable the anti-tamper, then a second roll to trip the door release. (One roll to rule them all, one roll to find them...)

As i understand it a maglock can have both a passcard and a keypad...

Swipe the access card.. then you still need to punch the appropriate number as well....


So it's not mutually exclusive to need both the passkey & the sequencer/electronics kit to bypass a door. Without resorting to outright hotwiring it.

did some reading :

Freya has it nearly spot on, Hotwire the car OR fake the key, thus a fake key does not help you hotwire.

a maglock is essentially a magnet on the wall and a steel plate on the door. it is the lock .. and is either on or off (we have one in our office here)

the swipe card, biometric pad, number pad etc. are the *Connected by a wire* methods of opening said lock so,

you can either take the "lock" apart with Logic & H/W and force it open
OR
use the appropriate pass key or sequencer to fool the switch to the OFF position,

and as Falconer says, real BASTARDS can put an Optic scanner, biometric pad, number pad AND swipe card all on the same lock.
and then put anti tamper on top

Right, ideally I should've written it as "you can use a passkey/sequencer and/or an electronics kit". And as Mach_Ten noted, yes, you could theoretically stack as many measures into the maglock as you wanted to prevent someone fiddling with it.

And since I'm shocked nobody's pointed this out yet, when all else fails there's always the universal toolkit: explosives!

Though, while indeed universal, subtle/quiet they are not.

Unless you use Hush-a-booms!! And yes, between this and the Not Allowed thread, I'm kinda dating myself here (though both this and the other references were before my time, seen as reruns). On the other hand, I doubt many here are in a position to call me out on it

Yes, there is that.