As it says on the tin. I'm looking to make a really good drone focused rigger (normal build rules but also include wishlisted items/mods). Ideally having some sort of command and control vehicle that wouldnt be too obvious on the edge of the barrens and tacoma docks (no citymasters). Id like an even balance between combat aerial and ground drones as well as cov ops spy types.


If you focus more on hacking and rigging then list those toys as well please.

Any flavours or character type you want to play? The paranoid, the mech street sam, infiltrator, swarm master, the build it yourselfer?

Straight rigger (just drones) or rigger/hacker?

Surged/non surged

Bioware or cyberware?

For that matter, adept, mage, technomancer, or pleeb?

As far as "mobile base" goes, you realistically shouldn't need anything too terribly huge most of the time, and when you do, you can pull a trailer.

Last game I was in, we just used a GMC Bulldog with a few cheap performance upgrades. We'd modify it to fit whatever mission we were going to be on, if we had the time, otherwise just make it as inconspicuous as possible. Our main magic user ran an antique shop as his day job, and used his skills at faking antiques to artificailly weather the van, so it didn't look freash painted, if we needed it. You'd be surprised the places a generic-looking laundry service van can go without question.

Some of the disguises included:
Plumber's van (rocket launchers are easy to make look like pipe)

Roofer's van (gives you an excuse to be on the roof)

Electrician's van (nobody bats an eye when these are full of tech goods)

Ambulance (Corp sec goons actually helped us extract their boss when we convinced them he needed medical help)

HazMat van (when you pull up in one of these and enter a building in full chem gear, it vacates right quick)

Pest Control (ever have to steal a paranormal lab animal?)

Trid News Van (sometimes being the press is the perfect way to gather intel)

Parks/Forestry Service (for those out-of-town gigs, and occasional smuggling)


I'm sure there were more, we changed it up almost every job we had. And on the few occasions we were caught, it was easy enough to destroy the van, escape, and get a new one.

Much cheaper than investing in some huge expensive Rigger Wet-Dream, that can't even make corners, and is suspicious-looking as hell.

Plus, going cheaper on the vehicle leaves you more money for drones and other gear. Our rigger also went cheap on the drones, picking up a ton of little surveillance bots, a few rotodrones with smgs or small nade launchers, and a big, high-altitude over-watch drone. Again, the idea was to have things as disposable as possible, so if we did lose something, it couldn't be traced easily, and was cheap to replace. And the more money we got, the larger his drone swarm grew. Eventuallt hd did pick up some nice ones, IIRC, but always reserved them to task he was sure to get them back from. Even so much as putting his team mates at risk to spare his drones damage or loss...

human
Body 4
Agility 2
Reaction 6 (10)
Strength 2
Intuition 5
Charisma 2
Logic 2
Willpower 3
Edge 4

surge 3
biocompatability (cyber)
Metagenic improvement (reaction)
+1 min/+1 max reaction
More than Metahuman
Restricted gear R2 Move By Wire (secondhand)

Neg qualities are up to you, I would suggest in debt as you are likely to need more startup money.

Cracking group 4
Electronics group 2
Mechanic group 1
Armourer 1
Pilot Ground 1
Pilot Air remote/vtol 6.5
Gunnery remote 4.5
Dodge ranged 4.5
Navigation 1


'Ware
Move by Wire II, secondhand, +4 rea, +2 dodge, +2 init passes, r4 skillwires
3.24e 42,500ny
Comlink alpha 0.14e 4,000
Hot sim module alpha 0.14e 10,000
Control Rig alpha 0.42e 10,000
Datajack x3 alpha 0.14e 3,000

Comlink
Response r6 8,000
signal r6 3,000
customized interface 250
optimized 500
hardening r6 150
simsense accelerator 15,000
skinlink 50



"command vehicle" GMC bulldog (20 slots) 16 body
Turbocharger I/1
Turbocharger II/1
Rigger cocoon II/2
Armour 20/1
Large drone rack/4
Small drone landing rackx4/8
Satellite uplink/1
Smart Tires or runflats
Vehicle can carry 5 combat drones for moments notice release. vehicle has no space for weapons or life support though. as an option, negotiate with your GM about size/cost of a drone trailer.

Autosofts
Manouver 3 (VTOL)
Targeting 3 (automatics/longarms)
Electronic Warfare 3
ECCM 6 w. optimization 3 7.5kny (this and EW allows the drone to stay active and connected while being jammed. at an R10 jammer, the drone has signal 4)

Large drone(s)
Dalmation (VTOL) or Steel Lynx (wheeled)
sensor upgrades:
camera r6 x2 1,200ny
smartlink 500 ny
radio signal scanner r6 150
(so long as all sensors are r6, vehicle now has sensor 6)
armour 12 2,400ny
satellite uplink 500ny
Weapon Mount, fixed, remote 2,000ny
HK 22X (smg) w. belt/drum fed mod (probably your fastest and cheapest overall buy, smartlink and silencer included, drumfeed to maximize ammo, and only one mod)
ak-97 with smartlink (int), drumfed (cheap weapon, and cheap addons. good for vehicles. requires 2+ mods)
ares desert strike with smartlink (ext), integral slilencer, and electronic firing (long range, -8 to hear it, and high damage. comes with high costs.)
Einfield AS-7 w. ext smartlink (BF shotgun, pretty simple, pretty effective. low ammo storage)

Small Drones
Rotodrone
same as above except:
Armour 9 1,800ny

Stormcloud
Signal retransmitter
Sun Cell

micro/mini drones
Shiawase Kanmushi (crawler drone)
camera upgrade r6
chameleon coating
signal retransmitter (as a heads up, the drone gets effective signal 6)

Flyspy
camera upgrade r6
chameleon coating
additional fuel tanks
signal retrans


With the high reaction you'll have, you'll actually be able to manually drive vehicles better than you can rig them (response+skill vs reaction+skill), and be very good at avoiding damge (DP for full defence is 18 vs ranged w/o modifiers, 14 while rigging). with three meat passes and four virtual passes, and the ability to jump in/out of drones as a free action, you should be able to control a large area easily. This setup is a bit more for courier/chase setups, but has the staying power you'll probably need.

as an alternate to the above C+C vehicle, this is one that I found makes a more mobile setup, though it lacks the drone carrying capacity, sometimes you just need to be mobile.

Handling +1 Accel 15/20 Speed 75 Pilot 1 Body 6 Armour 12 Sensor 6
Horseman 6 12000 (alternate with four tires for stability)
Advanced cargo module +4x run flat tires 6000
sensor upgrades: camera r6x2 1200
remove atmospheric sensor (maxed at 3), for radio signal scanner r6 150
Armour 12 2400
Rigger coccoon, enhanced 4000
Satelite uplink 500
Turbocharger 1200
Gridguide Override 1000
Mechanical arm (x2) Obv Cyberarm [15] 6800 13600
(it does say in the "mechanical arm" segment that its up to your GM if they will allow mods to vehicle arms. Use fixed weapon mounts if he doesnt like them)
Bulk Mod 1 1000
Cybergun (smg) 10 2500
Drum Mod 1000
Smartlink
Supressor 600
electronic firing 1000
Clip Port 1 100
Grapple Gun 5 500
100ft Microwire 100
12 rnd magx4 (50 rounds, gel)
100 rnd drumx4 (400 rnd, gel) 1350
100 rnd drumx4 (400 rnd, norm) 800

For extra fun, overmodify a chameleon coating onto it.

Vehicles, Drones, and Agents.

There's some ideas for you.

COMMAND TRUCK:

GMC Hermes Van. 45,000¥, comes with two Landing Drone Racks, 6 points of armor, and plenty of room for mods. Found in Arsenal. You could put a whole Nexus in there, and laugh in the face of "program limits".



For drones? I'm a fan of LTA drones on long-duration overwatch.

Observer platform: Renraku Stormcloud; Chameleon Coating, Improved Economy, Additional Fuel Tank, Improved Sensor Array; Covert Ops R3; 10,350¥
Has an impressive 120hrs endurance (that's 5 solid days between recharges, kids), good sensor capabilities (and remember, the Stormcloud comes with Clearsight R3), and can do a passable job of "look inconspicuous" - either with outright camoflage, or in high-traffic areas, altering it's colors/"livery" to blend in.

Bonus points if your GM lets you stow a Holo Projector as "cargo", or gecko-taped to the drone, in order to pass it off as a "flying billboard" in commercial zones (like a shopping center or outdoor sporting event, for example). If not, you could always go without the Improved Economy, and go with "Special Machinery: Holo Projector" instead.

A variant that replaces the Improved Sensor Array with a Retrans Unit would also be useful.

Oh, I may get to like this thread. Let's see if we can gather new input here.

As always, I highly recommend a few drones that can work in a workshop, like the Manservant. Equip them with the right autosofts and minor repairs and modifications will be done without contacts or overtime payment.

Some specifications would be nice, though. I personally like a do-it-yourself take on the topic, trying to get a lot of things fairly cheap, letting the character use stolen goods if necessary and possible. So I took the juryrigger quality and custom-brewed a few nice tools from toy drones (currently finishing that project). Equipping household drones (e.g. said Manservant) with loot taken from some gangers is also not below my character's standard.

That being said, I recommend having a quick convertible kit on hand: Turn that usual, boring car you just got into something more fitting for a rigger.

It's nice if you have a command vehicle, but having a cheap sports car on the side for running may pay out in the long run.

Do it yourself character should probably run as much +log as they can for quicker build times, 5/6 base, cerebral booster, encephalon 2, r3 neocortical nanites (and focus reality amplifier), etc. As well as a t/m contact with mecanical sprites for "stability" power (rush a job at no chance to glitch) high mechanical skill.

As for worker drones, you may as well load up a beaver drone with some quality autosofts. Slightly more expensive, but also readily available from any drone construction site you can find. Just be sure to rewrite ownership and de-tag the thing thoroughly.

The big thing becomes getting a hold of a facility. You can start with one so why not.

Nice idea! However, a Cyberware scanner with a datasoft for RFID chips to expand the database of what it can detect is perhaps superior to a NLJD. Also rather cheap.

I'm very careful as to exploiting the powers of the cheap cyberware scanner, 'cause I fear that the more powers attribute to them, the more my GM will use them against me - which could ruin the fun for my group. It's kind of an unspoken gentleman's agreement.
Otherwise I'd be using them as a cheap, short-ranged Ultra-Wideband Radar. They may not show living tissue very well, but that datajack floating behind that wall surely is attached to another metahuman.
Improvising like that would fit a juryrigger, though...

I recently cooked up the idea of having the rigger's implanted (or external) sim-module connect to a nexus stored in a drone, aerial or otherwise. Upgrade both parts to signal 5 and you're looking at a nice possible distance between the two. Jammers might be problematic, though, because I don't know whether sim-modules as peripheral nodes can actually run ECCM. Of course, this was my take on not needing a command vehicle.

General advice: Drones, many of them. The cheaper they are, the easier you can afford to sacrifice them. More bullets in the air, if aimed in the general right direction, also can work.
Negotiate the budget for expenses (read: (possibly) destroyed drones) beforehand, both with the Johnson and with the team.

The problem with "all the drones" is that a rigger can theoretically become a one man army, complete with infiltration, weapon skills, dodging ability and all that solely by upgrading to r6 response (8k), r6 pilot (15k/type) and various autosofts (4.5k? ea) for 10dp against anything. without rigging. now the group doesnt need a sam, infil, adept, and if you have a halfdecent skillwire prog and cha, a face. The law also looks down on people transporting 20 kill-assault drones anywhere (a bulldog can only theoretically carry five drones, cuz weapon mount rules are silly), and reacts harsher when they find them. The other problem with sacraficing drones is that you have to replace them. Unless you have good connections to a supplier willing to sell under the table, or can buy them legitimately, and then somehow hide that you're using them to shadowrun, or some sort of other sillyness (i just bought a factory suited for making drones), every time you want to replace one, you have to go find your contact, work out a deal, he has to go "find" them, and then smuggle them in, then, once you buy them, you have to strip them of various devices and software (you are in the middle of a firefight in a zero zero zone and all of a sudden the drones update their pilot programs, or even just manufacturer admin accs), then modify them with weapons, armour, and whatever other fun you have. it ends up being cheap, but at the cost of time. Upgrading from rotodrones to dalmations and getting an extra four dice to resist damage can make all the difference (armour+3, bod+1)

the other problem with drones is the downtime. unless you want to spend 200k on a facility and enough connstruction drones to repair everything, and pay for the repairs at 1% TV/box. and at that point, you may as well go legit.

nexus is only really needed if you are trying to connect all the drones, all the weapons, and all of your opponents things to your com at once. a r5 system can have 10 subscriptions. given that you can subscribe multiple drones to the same slot and have to settle for giving them all the same command (kill that guy there), i dont terribly see a reason for a nexus.

as for signal, an r5 upgrade is 1k, an r6 is 3k, and a sat uplink (r8) is 500 for both vehicle and com. Just upload everything with a sat link, an elec warfare AS at r3 (you only need one copy for ALL of your drones), and an r6 ECCM with a R3 optimization option (6k+1.5k) the drone will be able to talk through pretty much everything, and its available at creation! or just a signal repeater for 1k for vehicles, which effectively gives everything it can talk to (mutual range) a r6 signal. (including the drone its mounted on). it costs a modification slot, but so does a satelite uplink.

Edit: for extra fun, mount a "workshop" option to your vehicle right next to your Valkyrie module. for three slots, you will never be stuck without good tools or a doctor!

.... except Autosofts don't work that way?

For one, they only benefit vehicles and drones. For two, I believe they run ON THE DRONE, not the rigger's commlink.


Five racks. Which can be Multilaunch racks. Which can hold, IIRc, 10 minidrones or 20 microdrones. Each.

Or, one of the racks cna hold and deploy a drone that ITSELF has a Multilaunch rack.


Depends on teh drone. For a lot of "combat drones", replacing the WEAPON is harder than replacing the drone itself.

An MCT-Nissan Rotodrone is Availability 6. No R, no F. Just availability 6. As does a GMC-Nissan Doberman, or a Renraku Stormcloud. A Lonestar LEBD-1 is 6R, which is basically "don't get caught with it" and/or "blow some ¥ on a fake license".

So sure, yes, it'll take a bit of looking around to find one for sale - a few days, maybe. But it's not a huge drama issue. R4 or better Spirit Binding and Ritual Sorcery materials are actually harder to get.


::sigh::


You don't need a facility to repair damage boxes.


The OP talked about seconding as a Hacker. And the suggestion for a nexus wasn't about Subscriptions, it was about program limits.

A Response 5 / System 5 commlink can only run 4 programs (or, 9 programs if 5 of them have the Ergonomic option) without degrating performance.

A Response 5 / system 5 Nexus with a 30 program limit .... can run 29 programs before performance loss, none of them being Ergonomic.

Sattelite links are inherently VERY directional. It uses a DISH. Seriously, read the description carefully, right in the main book.


Not necessarily. If your GM is using the rules in Unwired, for Pirated versus Legit programs .... either you get one copy for each drone, OR, you spend large chunks of time each month patching the bejesus out of your software.


.... and if you run any other programs - like, say, Targetting, so that your drone can hit the proverbial broad side of a barn - and your Response dips to 2, on the spot.


No, it doesn't work that way. The Repeater has Signal 6 - but if the drone you're trying to talk to only has Signal 4, then it's only in mutual signal range with the repeater, at Sig4 distances or less.


.... and the book specifically cautions GMs against allowing this, without imposing some serious caveats. At the very least, she should charge more than 3 slots. And should require you to stop and "set up" the 'shop.

This isn't necessarily true. After all, there isn't a strict need to run the skillsofts or autosofts locally. The same networked-skillwires technique(unwired 193) can apply here. The key is that only one entity may use the program at any given time. You show up for work, and the office network allocates you the skills you need for your shift for the day, and when you leave you no longer have those skills.

Its entirely possible to run a central nexus that offloads all the drone ware and allocates it as needed, and would generally be good practice to make that same defense computer as a Centralized Tacnet hub.

RE: networked skillsofts: ah, that's pretty cool.

Oh, and by the by: if that TacNet hub also happens to be a Nexus, it can pack a LOT of IC to directly engage anyone trying to break in. You'd only need R4 hardware, maybe excepting Signal, too.

Actually, Nexi server platforms are so robust that System is NOT limited by Response

One of my unfinished projects involved making Cyberdexus(a few-user nexi) for personal hacking use, basically the bigger laptop version of commlinks based around this idea. Turns out system 6 is pretty cheapto get, if you don't mind starting with a response of 3.(due to availability).

This makes networked skillsofts and autosofts even more attractive. Hell, even an Evo Mobile Terminus(a defense server that can DODGE? Yes please!) can be had for 3bp or so.

You'll still probably want to crank Response up pretty high, since it factors into almost everything you do, at least for Rigging.


Love the Mobile Terminus.

Great as an AI's home node, really - self-mobile? YES PLEASE!

This... this is why i love my fellow munchkins of dumpshock....

a jumped in rigger can only control one vehicle. for ALL THE DRONES, they will be running by themselves anyway. also you can just slave the drone to your com/nexus and have the program run on your link so long as you have signal connection. I think anyway... I forget the rules for slaving.


Multilaunch drone racks need min 10 body. you can put a mini drone rack on any heavy combat drone (bod 4). also even the "combat" minidrones have sucky DV's.


depends on what you're using. an ak-97 is 4R. And most shadowrunners i know of know more weapons dealers than drone suppliers.


You're right, buying a done wont be that much of an issue. Just so long as the player doesnt buy 12 of them at once from a single supplier right after getting 12 nuked by lone star/corp goons. Also weapon mount materials are 8F min. so the drone is obtainable easily, but trying to re-weaponize it wont be.


sure, but trying to refit anything major (ie more than armour dings) requires at least a shop, and the +6 for superior tools makes all the difference. Not to mention the logistics of trying to fit multiple vehicles/drones into a shop makes my head hurt.

makes sense. I thought a com had higher prog limit.


yes it uses a dish. to connect to a satelite. which then talks to other satelite linked things. or to wireless towers which then talk to things. whichever works out easiest. It also doesnt give rules requiring anything else to have a satelite link, nor what happens when it cant reach the satelite (like if there's an r1 area jammer active). so "acts like signal 8" and if everything is sat linked, there should be less of an issue for a GM to not allow it. I think what you're thinking of is directional antenna.


which would happen to any hacker using agents, or a hacker who has a copy of every program, etc. its also not hard to have one copy that is "legit and protected" and updates regularly, which you then crack, and replace your outdated programs on your vehicles/com/nexus. There's a reason I dont think the degradation rules see much of the light of day. Then again I could be wrong. and if they do get used, its probably easier to have a legit software provider that you spend a bit of time each month visiting and taking their copies, rather than try to update yours.


Agreed, see above, I thought a comlink would be able to run more programs. note to self, invest in ergonomic autosofts. if thats a thing... nope. not a thing. Harsh. wonder what the cost is to install a nexi on a drone...


You're right, I explained this terribly... I think you got what I meant though. Repeater is cheaper than R6 signal (because that makes sense >.>)


agreed. its totally stupid, and shouldnt be allowed. Just like you can mount a fixed Main Gun on a Horseman PMV with any of the mods. for only two slots!? or that you can mount a Valkyrie module on an aerial drone, and just have it come over and auto-stabilize your teammates? And with a proper autosoft, fix them back to full/almost full health? or that a vehicle needs to upgrade to improved sensor package to be able to put more cameras on the vehicle. Etc, etc. I was trying to be facetious. Just like when I was talking about making a PMV into a one man army, then applying a chameleon coating.


nitpicking aside, setting everything up so it has r6 signal or sat links, or etc, then slaving it to your over-powered nexus, and running everything off of it is such a perfect idea, that i dont know why i didnt think of it before... The drones cant be hacked (you are forced to try and hack the nexus) and you can run as many programs as you want. /drool

Edit: ran a few scenarios, cheapest I can get an r6 nexus with 20 persona/subscription limit and 50 program limit is 30.2kny. ffs.

Slaving isn't the end-all-be-all of hacking invulnerability. If anything, its a liability because if it's compromised so is everything it's connected to - and any network path to an drone is still a network path into the server, so be wary. Such a setup is rather vulnerable to spoofing.

THAT BEING SAID, your best bet in terms of cost is to do some self-assembly: use a an aftermarket response 6 chip in it. (assuming Persona 20 and ProgramLimit 50) Availability 24 hurts a lot, But Rating(6)xProcessor Limit(50)x100y is only 15k if you assemble it yourself, since per the core book it costs half market price in parts and some Hardware tests.
Then, the software package for System 6 for the same attribute values is.... 6000 nuyen, compared to 3000 for a commlink rating 6 program. If you dropped your Persona Limit to 10 it would be the same price.
Firewall is still pricey as fuck though, and arguably the most important

Just a note - if you're willing to lob the drones out the door manually, you can fit as many as the GM allows into the passenger/cargo space.

Launch racks just speed up the process.



-k

No. I was talking about the Satellite link. I've seen folks, on this very forum, think the Satellite Link gave an omnidirectional Signal 8 link with anything.


Having played a 1,000-Karma Hacker Adept, with high-teens to low-twenties die pools for thingslike patching and cracing .... anything over 4 or 5 programs, and you're spendingmore time keeping up with degradation, than you will spend actually shadowrunning. Or sleeping, for that matter.


Buy a drone. Buy a nexus. Say "this nexus, is in/on that drone".

Example: Evo Mobile Terminus. Essentially, a nexus with wheels.


Well, no, it shouldn't be BANNED, either. It's just, not something you're going to be easily able to make use of.

I was at a state fair several months ago (end of last summer, into early autumn). It included some sort of racing league, little miniature cars of some sort. Anyway - severalof the racers had pretty complete shops, that they carried around in box trailers - eight by eight by ten or twelve feet, call them. The trick is, they had to UNPACK about half of the "shop", in order to make use of it. IOW, there was a set-up and break-down process involved. And it did require something like ... well, I assume the whole interior of that trailer wasn't jam-packed like sardines. So call it, um, 200 or 300 cubic feet of volume, for it all.


And then someone drops an R6 jammer, with gecko tape, onto whaerever that nexus is located - and your whole net dissolves, sending each drone nto local mode, under the control onlyof it's own Pilot program.

"All your eggs in one basket" isn't always a good idea.


Yes, they can be hacked. That's what "Spoof" is for - you spoof a command, to look like it comes from the nexus .... switching the drone's subscription to YOUR commlink. Poof, free drone! And the NExus' security didn't mean jack over diddly.


Yeah, and look at the Availability of that nexus.

And a couple of them also let you heave those drones back INSIDE your truck, or whatever. Without having to stop, or even slow down!

O.o sounds shiny, and a terrible situation. how would any halfdecent hacker be able to sustain all those programs?


people will always find a way... I was trying to say that shop+valkyrie shouldnt be allowed. its like trying to fit all the above gear into an ambulance with people in it.


Yes, it basically sets you up for failure unless you're running one of the new ares warmachines from rigger 4. However if I was installing such a thing, it would probably be on some sort of tank-like gunboat. or just a chameleon coated drone with as much ECM and reduced profile upgrade, as I could. Redundancy would probably be good as well, but buying more than one nexi gets expensive... I think I'm going to spend a bit more time working on this...

stealth and good ECCM would be your best friends. ECCM 6, optimization (ECCM) and a skinweb array (because this thing makes sense at all), should give you 8 ECCM to fight jammers with.


FFS, i forgot about spoof... I hate spoof... why does EW have to be so convoluted. Uhh, tack r10 smart jammers on all the drones? (lets you communicate without having to punch through the jammer)


24 to buy an out-of-the-box r6 nexus. making one at the start of the game would be better, extended test log+hardware (12/1day), 15k for the materials for response.

I tried getting a little sneaky. Buy an r3 nexus, 3*50*50 (7.5k) avail 12, r6 system with persona limit 24 (avail is PL/2) for 7.2k (14.7k) and firewall r6 for 15k (29.7k) avail 10, signal 4 0.5k, satelite link 0.5k (30.2k). I missed a step when pricing it apparently... response six upgrade= 8k, so 38.7k for a pretty much maxed out nexus at chargen.

@Udoshi
the problem starts to become is "persona limit" the same or similar to "subscription limit"? I think in this case, they would be the same. If you're trying to hook up three vehicles, ten drones, all of your gear, all of your team-mates comlinks, and then maybe some of the other guy's weapons, drones, coms, etc, that persona limit becomes incredibly important.

Persona limit just tells how many personas can be running on that specific node. For a commlink, that would be one, as far as I recall. A nexus can support a lot more customers.
For a persona running on a nexus, as far as I know, the subscription limit is still Response * 2. That is not a line beyond which you can no longer subscribe to anything, though - further subscriptions beyond the limit each just count as single running programs, which then counts towards your processor limit. Now, processor limits on nexus are somewhat higher than on a commlink, and that's the angle I'm aiming at.

Personally, I'd mount that nexus (e.g. Evo Mobile Terminus, which is describeb as relatively small) on an armored and camouflaged medium drone (Manservant, LEBD-1 or Doberman) and try to keep it out of most firefights. Medium drone because these are still somewhat more maneuverable in urban conditions than an almost car-sized heavy drone. You could still go aerial, though.
This will probably cost the drone a few slots on cargo space (has to be modified in, I'd say, for 1 or 2 slots, ask the GM). But as the nexus is an additional piece of hardware, it could receive the Armor Case modification for commlinks/electronics ("Unwired", p. 196). While the drone can still be shot to pieces (9 armor can be overcome), the nexus could hopefully be retrieved if that happens.

Truth be told, my take on the drone network very much revolves around a (well-protected) center point, so it is an all-eggs-in-one-basket-tactic. It's got some other downsides, too, like having to maintain wireless traffic, which can give your presence away in the first place.
An alternative would be to get drone good pilot ratings (with all the added steps to do so) and maybe fuzzy logic modifications and let the drones take care of themselves.


You may be exaggerating to get the point across, I cannot tell, but...
If a group of seasoned shadowrunners get themselves overshadowed by a pack of unimaginitive drone pilot dog brains, they have made some mistakes along the way

Drones only function within their limits and are mostly incapable of creative thinking, so teammates are still a good thing to have

where did you find that info on subscriptions? I was pretty sure it was just like response in that it slowed down every rating #of devices...

Personally I'd mount the nexus on something like a doberman that I can pimp out with chameleon coating, extra fuel tanks, armour, and some ECM of its own, then strap that to the top of my main vehicle via a large landing mount, and have it be able to be hidden and mobile. Add a few guard type drones for extra security.

for case modifications, yes, armour makes sense. so does hardening, optimization (eccm), personalization, response enhancer, oracle and focus reality amps, and various communication methods including sat link, laser and microwave.

as for me exaggerating... kind of? r6 pilot drones with r4 autosofts are basically rating 5 enemies. the "traditional" new shadowrunner, aka, someone off the street, will face very poorly against these enemies. Seeing as you can modify and specialize drones into pretty much any configuration (ranged combat, stealth, melee combat/ramming), the dice pools get just a bit bigger, and the drones become a bigger pain in the ass. As for replacing a face, I was kind of talking out of my ass, but a charisma 4 rigger with one or two levels in influence and a few of the matrix social perks can have an ok pool. of course, your rigger's likely to go down under "cyberpsychotic", but hey, thats a part of the game.

of course, unsupervised drones are really easy to beat, as their default programming should be "corner and attempt to make them surrender" rather than "kill anything not wearing XYZ or tagged ABC in this area" because accidents happen and so do programming errors. (yay glitching on pilot tests to make a decision)

It can't be done. That was the problem. Literally, I was spending five or six weeks, to offset four weeks of degradation. And this, despite having the "Sustenance" adept power, reducing his sleep needs to 2 hours per night.


Just needs a bigger vehicle. conestoga (city bus), for example. Full ambulance space, plus an unpack-and-setup vehicle shop? Sounds fine to me. Sounds like something a "nomad clan" would want to have in it's inventory, in fact. Or heck, a safari-expedition-for-hire sort of affair would like one, too (albeit, with more offroad capabilities, likely).






Nonstandard Wireless Link modules. R6, on every drone, the nexus, and your personal commlink.


Adaptability Autosoft is also useful.

Question cleared?

As for a e.g. a valkyrie module on a small drone:

That's actually a pretty good example of how I handled that. I'm treating the module as something with a lot of gear that can be folded in case of need. Most of the time, this thing gets basically used as a better medkit. Additionally, pool modifiers for bad surroundings come into play, because there's no way a small drone can supply some kind of sterilized working space. I'd have to find a room and clean it thoroughly if I plan on reducing those modifiers for something like emergency surgery.


Normal jammers can be overcome with a signal rating of at least 5 and an ECCM 6 (Optimized, if necessary). Jamming on the Fly as per the rules in "Unwired", p.92, becomes much more of an issue because it's an opposed test and the nexus itself cannot properly use the skill Electronic Warfare. One would have to fight for one's own connection manually and in person...
I've also been under the impression the more powerful your nexus gets, the bigger it becomes. Must have been a balancing thought. Hence me settling for the mobile terminus to avoid that hassle even though it has medium attributes.
I estimated having to pay one slot for installing the nexus into the drone, because they are way bulkier than a commlink and internal storage instead of geckotape gets the nexus the drone's armor on top of its own, culminating in up to 19 effective armor. Those things are more expensive than many drones, after all

Another note: If you plan on using multiple drones, consider Telematic Infrastructure software. Right, that's the program security spiders use to catch your signal. If supplied by enough wireless nodes running it, the software maps active and passive wireless nodes for you and automatically searches for hidden ones. Nonstandard wireless links just make you harder to detect.
That thing is really hard to overcome if using such a centralized network yourself, so why not apply it against your enemies?

While you're at it with that massive network, consider Tactical Network software. Tacnets are very, very useful...

Oh, I like this thread. I'm laying down a lot of the tricks I've picked up here and there...

An agent running ON the nexus, however, with the right Autosofts, could. At least, I think so.


Hell, yes. Especially, it should count as a Sensor for every drone running it, towards their TacNet contribution needs.


.... and it can scan for THOSE, too. Just, as you say, not easily.


Yes, yes they are. Even if sensor numbers only permit you to run an R1 or R2 TacNet, those 1 or 2 dice can really be a boost.


^_^

For those using a nexus as a network-center: consider leaving it at home. Equip it with a satellite link, then equip a suitable drone with a satellite link and a Repeater. Your expensive nexus never need be in the line of fire, that way.




Altrenatively ...? Run a fiber from your Nexus to a rating 8 Microwave link you can set up in your window (or on a fire escape, or gecko-taped to the wall outside a window, whatever).

Next, we're going to get two nearly-identical drones. Both start of as Aztechnology Armadillos. We'll add [Additional Fuel Tank] and [Gecko Tips] to each of them. We'll also add one [Special Machinery: Microwave Link R8] to each of them.

One, call it Red, gets a second [Special Machinery: Microwave Link R8]. The other, call it Blue, gets a [Retrans Unit] instead.

For delivery of Red and/or Blue, we'll get "Green" - a Renraku Stormcloud, with [Gecko Tips], [Satellite Communications], and [SunCell]. (You'll want satellite ability on your Nexus too, of course, so you can pilot the Stormcloud as far away as you need it to be.)

...

So ... I think you should be able to see where I'm going with this, by now.

You find the tallest point in LOS (and say, within Signal 5 range) of your window-mounted Microwave link. Green delivers Red as close to there as it can safely land, and Red starts trundling it's way straight up the side of that high-ground. Green then returns for Blue, delivering it to a good spot in LOS of Red, and near your job site. Once Red and/or Blue is in position and deploys their Microwave Links, they turn off their regular WiFi systems (except the Retrans unit, of course).

If you need to go further, you can get more Reds, and string them along, daisy-chain style.

Here's the best part .... microwave links are not affected by radio jamming! So, from Nexus to Blue, is utterly secure; noone can hack in (without physically touching a Red, or your nexus), noone can jam the signal.

...

Oh, and did I mention the Armadillo comes with EW capabilities? 3 points of ECCM (hardware, even), R4 Area jammer, R3 Directional jammer, and 3 points of Signature masking. (By the by, this means that Blue can turn on it's Area jammer, and still have Signal 5 for it's Retrans Unit - 4 jamming, 3 ECCM, original Signal 6).

And Line-of-sight, with R8 microwave designatores, means the only limit is the curvature of the Earth itself. How's THAT, for network security?

Your Nexus could literally be a thousand miles away. (Blue becomes the weak link in the chain - but with Signature Masking 3, just going radio-dark should save it from a lot of potential threats.)

I like that type of security however if I cheese it that hard I have a feeling my gm will start rolling for accidental scatter of the microwaves. Whats that? your link is dead because of an off-target jdam? that sucks. hope you dont get implicated.

Except then you can look him in the eye and say "Stop being a dick."

There's no roll "to hit" with a microwave link, thus, no "Scatter" either.

And all the above does - at no small expense, either; Armadillos are 20K base! - is make sure your VERY expensive Nexus, stays out of harm's way.

Yeah I know. I think its more the nexus that hes going to be peeved about. Regardless of whether it could technically be spoofed or not (from the retrans point onward).

That or instantly all the guys I go up against are going to start running setups like mine.

Really, using a nexus just trades "computing power" for "pocket-sized (portable, concealable, convenient)", though.

And my microwave-link thing? Red and Blue cost something like 30,000¥ apiece. Apiece. Plus that setup lacks spontaneity / flexibility, because you have to set up the microwave links ahead of time.

Why Not?

Programming Environment (1/2 the Time)
Rush the Job (1/2 the Time)
Spend Edge (1/2 the Time)

So, the test interval is 40 Hours (1 Week, Some tables may determine a week is 60 or even 80 hours, but for the sake of argument, since it is not defined, I choose a standard 40 hour work week). That results in either 10 Hour Intervals, or 5 Hour Intervals, if you like spending Edge. Most you will need is 2 hits to Patch the program for the month. If you cannot generate 2 hits with your 15-20 DP's that you brag your 1000 Karma Hacker has, then he is not up to the challenge (My 350 Karma Cyberlogician can do it).

With only requiring 2 hours of sleep a Night (my Hacker requires 3 for the Sleep Regulator), you have 8 hours/day to code, while STILL allowing several hours per day for free time (Assuming a dedicated 8 Hours per day for Programming, a dedicated 8 Hours per day for Shadowrunning, and 2 hours of dedicated sleep per night, that is 6 hours of totally free time on your hands, each and every day). That is 1-2 programs/Day that you have patched. Hell, you could patch all 26 Programs each and every Month (and not all programs degrade on a monthly basis), with that amount of free time. Hell, assume that you only code for 5 of those hours/Day, that is 3.5 programs per week at that point (with NO edge Spent at all), for a total of 14 SOTA Patches monthly. More than enough time to keep your primary programs at SOTA. *shrug*

@modular man
yeah, thats pretty specific. kinda weird. but i suppose that works. Too bad its not persona's...

You dont have to use armidillos. There's nothing stopping you from using VTOL microdrones with geko tips or even just stationary drones with a suncell. Strap it to the top of a few local radio towers, and you'll have pretty much unlimited range for the thing. daisy chaining them only becomes an issue when/if you're in someplace like a warzone. Directional antennas work pretty well. Its also too bad that there isnt a test for "scrollling radio signals" aka, scrolling through radio frequencies according to an encryption sequence.

Another trick; set an agent to constantly update your encryption as per dynamic encryption (unwired 66)

(a) that character did not have reliable access to a programming environment (that wouldn't rat him out for being a dirty lowdown software pirate)
(b) Not every GM allows book-keeping of "1 week" intervals as a flat number of hours;
© IIRC, 10 programs that degraded monthly, and 5 or 6 more that degraded bimonthly. So call it 13 programs to work on each month
(d) even with an Edge of 7, and a reasonably-generous "you get a full edge pool for every month of downtime", that simply wasn't enough Edge to shorten EVERY cycle needed.


For seven programs:

• Standard 1 week
• Rush for 1/2 week
• Edge for 1/4 week
• TOTAL: 1.75 weeks

For the other six programs:

• Standard 1 week
• Rush for 1/2 week
• TOTAL: 3 weeks

Grand total? 4.75 weeks. Every 4 weeks. See where the problem comes into it?

Now, yes, a Programming Environment would work great to "fix" that. There's just one small catch, though. Where's the price to buy one? I walked away with a fairly good Nexus from one job (hey, the client wanted us to ensure that the data we were paid to eliminate could not be recovered - so I just packed up every bit of hardware it had ever touched, into the trunk of my car! ). Was the nexus for a skillsoft-authoring firm too, so I'm sure it'd've had the horsepower. But, being a paranoid git, my character wasn't going to rent time somewhere that might have decided to rat him out as a lowdown dirty software pirate.

Anyway, I seriously dislike that the Interval for patching is a full week. You should not have to spend every waking moment - and use EVERY possible trick in the book to cut the time down - just to keep up against the inexorable tide of degradation. "1 week" works if you have only 1 or 2 programs to maintain. But not if you have 1+ dozen of them.

True, but they have several useful features. 3 points of Hardware ECCM, and 3 points of signal masking. Hard to turnyour nose up at features like those.


But are subject to radio jamming, whereas Microwave links aren't.

System x 3, i believe. 4A 223, processor limit.
Unwired 50 says their persona limit = system x 3, but I believe that's a typo and should say Subscription - its superceded later by rules for actual persona limits, and the rest of that paragraph is talking about being able to ignore System limits.



Unwired 50 or so has rules for going above your subscription limit



I seem to recall that this is one of your groups houserules, and not anything actually in the books. That rather limits its usefulness to other players.



You should be able to upgrade the medkit built into a valkyrie module to a better rating fairly easily, though.


Regarding program sustaining, this is one circumstance where Technomancers win. Long-term Registering is fairly cheap for being able to throw a sprite at maintaining all your programs for a year. Both tutor(come with the software skill) and machine sprites(via the profession autosoft, cheating because the resonance isn't bound by limitations of archaic manmade robot programs) are capable of this

Thanks for the correction, but may there be a typo in this? As I recall, it's rather System * 2.




Another thing, now that I've been reminded of it in another thread by _Pax._, one may want to emply a reality filter program (highest rating possible, optimized if necessary) as it gives another nice +1 Response. It first has to win an opposed test between Reality Filter + Response and the node's System + Response, but that could possibly be won with standard-issue drones, and it's cheap to get.

That is not a typo; you are thinking of commlinks which nexi are not.

Techno's don't need to maintain programs. They use complex forms, which to my knowledge, don't degrade. Having a TM buddy willing to throw the 4-6 karma for a years worth of upgrades? perfect.

@pax
I never could find the difference between hardware eccm and software eccm. if you can add hardware to software, then yeah, thats pretty good. signature masking is also pretty good. -hits to your opponents sensor targeting roll is pretty much unbeatable. Though it is a bit expensive for my tastes.

As for directional antennas, yes they are subject to jamming, which is why I wouldnt use them for combat or the front lines, however they work fine as relays. unless you're in a dead zone I suppose. one more wireless signal in downtown seattle wont make a difference, but one in the redmonds might.

@udoshi
System x3 makes more sense. now I can actually connect a few things. Also, I thought Valkyrie modules came with am r6 medkit.

@modular man
Now, how pain in the ass do you guys think that a GM would be when you say "my response starts one higher because I have an active reality filter"?

Even if it doesn't - the hardware doesn't count against program limits.

I'd say it does, though - it's like "skinweb++", if you will.

Could you provide me with a text passage? Not that I doubt your word, but I'd like to read it myself for future references. All I could find was stuff about the persona limit.


I don't think it would be much of a gamebreaker, after all, Reality Filters work best on less powerful devices. The node on which the filter is to be applied is the defending party in the opposed test, so a tie will result in the filter collapsing. Drones with high matrix attributes (say, Response and System 6) will be a pretty good match even to a rigger sporting Reality Filter 6, Response 6 (not factoring in the higher matrix attributes and ratings brought in by "War!", since I lack experience with those).
It just helps if you jumped in a low-grade drone, because you'd be using the drone's response for your tests anyway, so the reality filter helps setting off disadvantages. It's another program to run, though.
By fluff perspective, I'd think of it as your very own interface in place of the one a drone would normally offer to a rigger.

Programming Environments run about 100 Nuyen/Hour to access, IIRC, per the rules. I would call a Facility equivalent cost to a Programming Environment (though some tables allow it at Shop, I would not; a Kit is too small in my opinion, a Programming Shop might work, if you have a lenient GM, and Programming Facility is what we use, since it makes sense) if you wanted to purchase one outright, so just start there.

Week does not bother me, since we use 40 Hours equivalent. *shrug*

You recall wrong... it is an Optional Edge Use, documented in the book. I think it is useful, on occasion, but not something to use all the time. *shrug*

SR4A, Page 75

You're overlookign the part where the character was especially paranoid.

He would reasonably-happily rent timein a PE to write something new. But not to patch anything pirated. Because you never know when the PE owner(s) might get uppity about software piracy.


And I think it should be a program, or even an OS, for a Nexus. See where the problem lays?



Key word, "optional". Not all GMs will allow it.

So imagine what might happen at a table where the GM insists on using "1 week means 1 week" rather than "1 week means 40 hours", and says no to Edge-to-half-time, and is not especially accomodating about buying your own Programming Environment?

Rules should work, even when not at an especially-permissive table. These particular rules, do not.

I could see that...



Not a problem, really, just a style difference. Whatever works for you and your table, right? I think it COULD be a program or an OS, but it should probably cost some money. I would cost such a program or OS at about 100,000 Nuyen. Call it what you like.



Optional is just that, Optional, yes. So, you may not use Edge... Big deal.

I think the rules work just fine, and have used them for years to code my Cyberlogicians software. You can rush a job and use a programming environment (at rental prices, if you cannot purchase an environment outright) to do your coding. That quarters your time. That is 4 programs per week, at the harshest level. Since you have more than twice what the average person has available (you only need 2 hours of sleep, remember), this should not be an issue. If it is, mayhaps you should talk with your GM about it. Hell, I know some tables that just handwave patching all together as part and parcel of your normal downtime. *shrug*

You know what I'd like to see? Programming Environments not being all the same quality. Give it a Rating - from 1-8, say. Each point of rating, is 10% off the Interval for PE-appropriate tasks.

Then price it at, say ...

• Rating 1-3 ... Rating squared, times 3,000¥ (or: 3K¥ to 27K¥)
• Rating 4-6 ... Rating squared, times 4,000¥ (or: 64K¥ to 144K¥)
• Rating 7+ ... Rating squared, times 6,000¥ (or: 294K¥ to 384K¥)

Requirements .... hmm, Nexus with the same or higher System rating. Maximum concurrent users equal to the PE rating. Counts as ... hmm, go straight for TEN programs - that's why it's a Nexus-only program. No Ergonomic or Optimised options available, natch.

The already-RAW PE, would be an R5 program. It'd cost (conveniently enough) 100,000¥, could only run on a Nexus with System 5 or higher (added expense), and could handle up to 25 simultaneous users, presumign the nexus it's running on has a high enough Persona limit.

... see, that? That's grok-able, it provides players and GMs alike with a range of options to choose from. And even if you can only afford an R2 on a low-end Nexus (set you back maybe 30K¥ to 40K¥) ... hey, 20% off the time needed is still better than 0%. Meanwhile, the big supermegacorp with their rows and rows of hig-rating Nexi running R8 Programming Environments, now actually CAN crank out shovelware faster than the Great Unwashed can consume them. Well, almost faster, lol.

(It also provides a good benefit for being in a Hacker-oriented group, along the lines of an Initiatory group (but without the Initiation or Submergence stuff): "Join us, pay your dues (in cash or barter), get access to our cool stuff". And I think it's how I will handle PEs myself, should I ever GM a Shadowrun campaign again.)


No edge, no PE ... my character would have ended up spending two months, to patch up ONE months' worth of degradation.

Tell me, does the name Sisyphus ring a bell?

It just offends my sensibilities that something most hackers should probably GLEEFULLY use ... requires them to use every trick possible to save time on Patching, just to keep up, if they pirate more than say, three or four programs (times the number of time-savers they DO use).


That's another way to handle it. But if I were to go that way, I'd expect to pay full price even for the pirated copies (they just don't have the call-home features of Registration and Copy Protection).

Which would work, but since there are no rules out there, I use what IS out there, and that is a Facility.
Simple, easy and still just as grok-able, to me at least.

But your presentation does have some good merits to it.



I feel your pain, but that is a choice that you chose to make. There is nothing preventing you from using the same techniques most Hackers probably employ to Patch their programs (or write their own).



But why, when there is a solution out there. All the hackers I have every seen in play use these techniques to patch their programs, if that is the way they want to go with it. The ones that do not just geelfully pay the pittance to keep their programs SOTA.



Why? When you write your own stuff, there is NO COST to do so. Yes, you start play at chargen having had to pay for the programs, or you begin play and then purchase your cracked programs. There is nothing stopping you from stating that, though you "Paid" for your programs at chargen, you actually programmed them yourself. After which you just maintaiun them yourself, with the attendant downtime effort fo keep them where you want them to be (SOTA). And if you are GOOD at programming them yourself, you may even be able to start up a sideline of providing your software on a demand basis in the shadows. Not like there is not a lot of source material for that already in the stories and fluff. *shrug*