Ok I don't remember accurately, but there were some elf spike babies would were born before the awakening right? Who was the IE taking them and he had an association no? Who was he? Ehran?
And do we know more about spike babies?
Full Version: Spike babies
You probably mean Prof. Xavier ... err. Laverty.
Spike babies is a term that was retroactively used to explain births of elves or dwarfs before the Awakening hit.
'Spike' in this context means a mana spike that enabled the metahuman genes to express before a sufficiently high ambient mana level was reached world wide.
Spikes could be limited to a location or a time and location.
In the sixth world, spikes are still possible, called mana surges. If you walk into one and have, let's say, dormant metagenetic qualities (SURGE), they might get activated and express on the spot. Or you might goblinize.
Spike babies is a term that was retroactively used to explain births of elves or dwarfs before the Awakening hit.
'Spike' in this context means a mana spike that enabled the metahuman genes to express before a sufficiently high ambient mana level was reached world wide.
Spikes could be limited to a location or a time and location.
In the sixth world, spikes are still possible, called mana surges. If you walk into one and have, let's say, dormant metagenetic qualities (SURGE), they might get activated and express on the spot. Or you might goblinize.
There are also known and canon recurring mana surges - th river anges is known for them - and irregular recurring ones, like the Slighe Roads in Tir na nÓg.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ May 7 2013, 03:14 PM) 
You probably mean Prof. Xavier ... err. Laverty.
Spike babies is a term that was retroactively used to explain births of elves or dwarfs before the Awakening hit.
Spike babies is a term that was retroactively used to explain births of elves or dwarfs before the Awakening hit.
Yes I'm really onto that subject. Sean Laverty. Why was he doing that and is there and outcome of it?
Well, he's one of the immortal elves and previously one of Tír Tairngire's princes.
Basically he's a shameless rip-off of Prof. X and the X-Men, mentoring spike babies (like Dodger, who was born in the 90s, iirc) but also other gifted elves. This way he has ties to elven supremacists, but isn't necessarily one of them, following a rather egalitarian agenda, but favoring his own race.
It's very probably a screening process to find immortal elves in this cycle of magic, who are sometimes reborn into new bodies, between cycles.
A confirmation of this theory has never been forthcoming, as is the usual modus operandi of Shadowrun.
His current whereabouts are somewhere in Tír na nÓg (in another mansion, go figure), doing the same thing he always does, playing Professor X. Apparently he doesn't need much to be happy.
Basically he's a shameless rip-off of Prof. X and the X-Men, mentoring spike babies (like Dodger, who was born in the 90s, iirc) but also other gifted elves. This way he has ties to elven supremacists, but isn't necessarily one of them, following a rather egalitarian agenda, but favoring his own race.
It's very probably a screening process to find immortal elves in this cycle of magic, who are sometimes reborn into new bodies, between cycles.
A confirmation of this theory has never been forthcoming, as is the usual modus operandi of Shadowrun.
His current whereabouts are somewhere in Tír na nÓg (in another mansion, go figure), doing the same thing he always does, playing Professor X. Apparently he doesn't need much to be happy.
Actually, according to Rook's background, Laverty is indeed involved with the Elf Surpremacists. But maybe his university radical just claims this to be cool. Rook as such is canon, by the Elven themed missions pack.
I think this is what 'ties to, but not necessarily one of them' means 
Speaking of immortal elves, is there any SR material that covers how the blood elves became regular elves again? The immortal ones that is.
I don't remember any material, but since it was a magical ritual of immense power, that also required magic to be sustained, I always assumed that they changed back to their natural forms during the downcycle.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ May 8 2013, 12:37 PM)
I don't remember any material, but since it was a magical ritual of immense power, that also required magic to be sustained, I always assumed that they changed back to their natural forms during the downcycle.
some unfortunate SURGEd individuals have what appears to be remarkably close to what blood elves had...
so it being based on the magic levels has certainly at least been *hinted* at in SR canon...
Too bad we can't use the Fourth World any longer. 
It has merits and drawbacks.
Imagine having to sort through even MORE of background stuff before writing, and having even MORE people cry foul when something goes against established canon from "Obscure Earthdawn reference book, appendix C".
On the other hand, there's stuff about dragons there that is a pure gold mine. :-\
Imagine having to sort through even MORE of background stuff before writing, and having even MORE people cry foul when something goes against established canon from "Obscure Earthdawn reference book, appendix C".
On the other hand, there's stuff about dragons there that is a pure gold mine. :-\
As opposed to what was recently written.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ May 8 2013, 12:37 PM)
I don't remember any material, but since it was a magical ritual of immense power, that also required magic to be sustained, I always assumed that they changed back to their natural forms during the downcycle.
Agreed, but since their true patterns were changed, you'd think they would have grown back by now, but maybe they just never got that far before the sundering of the connection.
Most blood elves would have died anyways. Alachia and Oakforest are probably the only surviving ones and both have enough magical clout to return themselves to their pre-prickly state, if they so desired at any one point in history. Furthermore, the act of living for that long could also have changed their patterns. After all, the thorns were only there for a few hundred years, and the downcycle was much longer. Who knows what their 'natural state' is by now?
Well, every child of two Blood Elves has to go through the Ritual of Thorns to become a Blood Elf him-/herself (merging his/her pattern with wood spirits and binding him/her to the Blood Wood). So, Blood Elves might just have disappeared when the last one died/Blood Wood disappeared and no more rituals were conducted (in fact, as the two-parted Ritual of Thorns requires both parts - Wood and Elves - to exist, the destruction of Blood Wood or a too small a number of Blood Elves would end it, destroying the whole ritual and all participants.
Also, it is heavily hinted in the rulebook "The Blood Wood", that the Ritual of Thorns is still an imperfect, temporary solution and something will have to happen at some point. Stuff like calling the wood "a horror itself", talking about how children that do not go through the Ritual of Thorns someday feel a strong urge to leave Blood Wood (and will go insane if forced to stay) and so on. So, maybe even before the end of the fourth world, all Blood Elves were already killed/healed/???.
Edit: Back on topic: spike babys! Another spike baby was Luther von Hayek, who appeared in thebook "Nosferatu" (http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Source:Nosferatu).
Also, it is heavily hinted in the rulebook "The Blood Wood", that the Ritual of Thorns is still an imperfect, temporary solution and something will have to happen at some point. Stuff like calling the wood "a horror itself", talking about how children that do not go through the Ritual of Thorns someday feel a strong urge to leave Blood Wood (and will go insane if forced to stay) and so on. So, maybe even before the end of the fourth world, all Blood Elves were already killed/healed/???.
Edit: Back on topic: spike babys! Another spike baby was Luther von Hayek, who appeared in thebook "Nosferatu" (http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Source:Nosferatu).
Heh... we have a character not long ago that had re-discovered the Ritual of Thorns while looking into protective rituals. He mistakenly cast it upon himself, with drastic results. Now he is being hunted by the Tir Na nOg authorities for practicing forbidden magic. Quite entertaining.
mmm
So there's nothing deep in that plotline, just a way to point on mysteries about elves.
Nothing like the spike babies went as the elite in a Tir or something alike.
Simply put, I can make anything out of it without contradicting canon stuff.
So there's nothing deep in that plotline, just a way to point on mysteries about elves.
Nothing like the spike babies went as the elite in a Tir or something alike.
Simply put, I can make anything out of it without contradicting canon stuff.
is there some pressing need to not go against canon? if it makes for a more enjoyable game, just ignore canon. not much point in sticking with something that makes the game less enjoyable for you... the whole point of it all is to have fun.
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ May 13 2013, 10:39 AM)
So there's nothing deep in that plotline, just a way to point on mysteries about elves.
Nothing like the spike babies went as the elite in a Tir or something alike.
Considering Tir Tairngire was established in 2035, the oldest "regular" elves would have been 24 at the time. At its beginning, Tir Tairngire must have looked a lot like the Summer of Love or Occupy movements, with a young population overall. So spike babies may well have been in position of running things as the minority with advanced degrees and/or professional or military experience. It's likely immortal elves posed as spike babies when establishing themselves as rulers.Nothing like the spike babies went as the elite in a Tir or something alike.
According to Tir na nOg, the existence of spike babies became public as early as 2013, as IRA figure Liam O'Connor was outed as an elf born in 1979. So the leadership of spike babies in Tir Tairngire wouldn't be such a secret. Unless people truly believed that spike babies was a phenomenon somehow limited to Ireland.
QUOTE (Jaid @ May 13 2013, 10:50 AM)
is there some pressing need to not go against canon? if it makes for a more enjoyable game, just ignore canon. not much point in sticking with something that makes the game less enjoyable for you... the whole point of it all is to have fun.
Nope but before doing so, I prefer to know the canon version.
For exemple, I think I'll involve somehow the PC into Dunkelzahn's death. Which would not be canon.
But before bending a plotline to my needs, I like to know the whereabouts. Wouldn't it be disappointing to learn that the plot is covered and better than what you did with it?
QUOTE (Nath @ May 13 2013, 11:29 AM)
Considering Tir Tairngire was established in 2035, the oldest "regular" elves would have been 24 at the time. At its beginning, Tir Tairngire must have looked a lot like the Summer of Love or Occupy movements, with a young population overall. So spike babies may well have been in position of running things as the minority with advanced degrees and/or professional or military experience. It's likely immortal elves posed as spike babies when establishing themselves as rulers.
According to Tir na nOg, the existence of spike babies became public as early as 2013, as IRA figure Liam O'Connor was outed as an elf born in 1979. So the leadership of spike babies in Tir Tairngire wouldn't be such a secret. Unless people truly believed that spike babies was a phenomenon somehow limited to Ireland.
According to Tir na nOg, the existence of spike babies became public as early as 2013, as IRA figure Liam O'Connor was outed as an elf born in 1979. So the leadership of spike babies in Tir Tairngire wouldn't be such a secret. Unless people truly believed that spike babies was a phenomenon somehow limited to Ireland.
Interesting. I have some tools to play with.
Given that the last pass of Halley's Comet coincided with several magical events on earth, you could also set a lot (relatively speaking) of spike births in 1986 or 1910.
That's a nice one too. Make the PC that want to be a second generationnal elfe be actually a 3rd generiational one. His grand-father (born 1986) could belong to 2050's Tir's princes. Spikes would have close ties into Tir's arising. He would have fragments of the keys that could prove they conspired for it (If he wanna unfold it). Somehow I may try to link it with the Council changement in the 70s.
Still unclear but something great could come out of this.
Still unclear but something great could come out of this.
QUOTE (hermit @ May 7 2013, 07:49 AM)
Actually, according to Rook's background, Laverty is indeed involved with the Elf Surpremacists. But maybe his university radical just claims this to be cool. Rook as such is canon, by the Elven themed missions pack.
Where did you find that, Hermit? I just did a quick glance-through of the book and didn't see any references to that. Laverty seems to be the least racist of the Princes, so it sounds a little weird that he'd be in deep with the xenophobes. Maybe you're thinking of Ehran and the Paladins of the Great Hunt?
@sk8bcn: One of the earlier-edition Princes was Maria Cinebal, listed as a spike baby born in 1998 and brought up by Laverty. As far as I know, the only place that went out of their way to collect spike babies was Laverty's Xavier Foundation; they were around in Tír na nÓg, but I don't think there was ever any canon reference to the spike babies banding together somehow. It's possible that a spike baby character could just have been overlooked by Laverty or whoever, especially if they weren't Awakened. ("Why are his ears pointed?" "Birth defect.") Personally, I'd think you could easily find spike babies anywhere with a relatively large elven population: Tír Tairngire, Tír na nÓg, the Zulu tribes, Pomorya, the Algonkian-Manitou Council, and so on.
As an aside, I've been writing some fanfic that features a character with strong ties to Laverty and the Xavier Foundation, so I've been picking away at the subject of spike babies and a couple related things for a while now. I don't want to completely derail the thread, but feel free to send me a PM if you're interested in blabbing/comparing notes sometime.
Within your fanfic, did you had an explanation for Laverty's foundation doing? Somehow, he's hiding elves before the awakening. But burning newborns with a genetic difference isn't something done in the 90s-2000s.
So either he don't want people to know that UGE is coming, either he has a plan regarding them.
Or didn't you look at his motives?
So either he don't want people to know that UGE is coming, either he has a plan regarding them.
Or didn't you look at his motives?
It's a few different things, actually... spoiler tags for formatting, and for anyone else reading, please remember this is just my own wild speculation/interpretation and pointedly not canon.
All in all, I'm very much a fan of the idea that "having a plan for them" is exactly what Laverty did. Gathering all the elven spike babies into a "foundation" that he could later influence creates the possibility that they'd become a kind of elven old boy's network/ruling conspiracy later, both within Tír Tairngire and outside (think "pointy-eared Freemasons"). Even if he didn't intend to do that from the beginning, it would've been foolishly easy to tilt it that way, and I'd bet any amount of nuyen that Surehand or one of the other Princes would pressure him to do exactly that.
[ Spoiler ]
All in all, I'm very much a fan of the idea that "having a plan for them" is exactly what Laverty did. Gathering all the elven spike babies into a "foundation" that he could later influence creates the possibility that they'd become a kind of elven old boy's network/ruling conspiracy later, both within Tír Tairngire and outside (think "pointy-eared Freemasons"). Even if he didn't intend to do that from the beginning, it would've been foolishly easy to tilt it that way, and I'd bet any amount of nuyen that Surehand or one of the other Princes would pressure him to do exactly that.
Yeah that kinda fits perfectly in my mind.
Now I need to find the last step to that plotline. What dark secret could my second generational elf have.
I need to find something they don't wanna be unfold.
Maybe, my PC's mother was in Xavier Foundation. He met most of them including "that guy" who actually is a spy for Tir? Something better to imagine?
Now I need to find the last step to that plotline. What dark secret could my second generational elf have.
I need to find something they don't wanna be unfold.
Maybe, my PC's mother was in Xavier Foundation. He met most of them including "that guy" who actually is a spy for Tir? Something better to imagine?
The way I did it with my main character in the fanfic was that she was one of Laverty's Paladins, and originally a member of the Peace Force before becoming a runner. It's heavily implied that she's worked for Laverty on and off during her entire time in the shadows; she left the Peace Force in the same year that the Tír's spy agency became independent. One of Laverty's big things nowadays seems to be making sure he's connected to elven nobility and magicians in Europe, stuff like the Path magicians and druids in Tír na nOg, the elven members of the New Druidic Movement and Lady Rhiannon Glendower in the UK, the druids of Brittany, etc.
Maybe your character's mother (or your character himself) was tied to the Xavier Foundation somehow, and turned into their equivalent of a company man before going independent? That would strike a nice balance between having skeletons in the closet, but Laverty himself not really caring enough to hunt you to the ends of the earth.
Edit: Sudden flash of inspiration right after I posted this. Laverty formed the Xavier Foundation to find spike babies and powerful magicians that he could train in a particular (druidic) tradition, so that they could all eventually work some kind of ritual to prepare for the return of the Horrors. The reason he's making contact with so many druidic and elven nobility groups around the world is to have both their magical resources and the political clout to make sure they're left alone to do their work. Then you get situations like "well, if you really want us to help you, you're going to have to show us it's worth our while...", which is where your character or his mother comes in.
Maybe your character's mother (or your character himself) was tied to the Xavier Foundation somehow, and turned into their equivalent of a company man before going independent? That would strike a nice balance between having skeletons in the closet, but Laverty himself not really caring enough to hunt you to the ends of the earth.
Edit: Sudden flash of inspiration right after I posted this. Laverty formed the Xavier Foundation to find spike babies and powerful magicians that he could train in a particular (druidic) tradition, so that they could all eventually work some kind of ritual to prepare for the return of the Horrors. The reason he's making contact with so many druidic and elven nobility groups around the world is to have both their magical resources and the political clout to make sure they're left alone to do their work. Then you get situations like "well, if you really want us to help you, you're going to have to show us it's worth our while...", which is where your character or his mother comes in.
I was reading through the books for some fanfic stuff and came back across the parts on Laverty and the Xavier Foundation, so I figured I'd post them here. The shadowtalk portion of the Tír Tairngire section pretty well describes the Foundation.
From Tír Tairngire:
From Shadows of North America:
Maria Cinebal's entry from SoNA:
A passing mention in Land of Promise when discussing one of the new Princes:
And, last but certainly not least, from the Artful Dodger section of Storm Front (I'll stop after this, before someone whacks me with a copyright bat and/or lawsuit):
tl;dr: I have way too much time on my hands.
I think that's most of the canon information on what Laverty and the Foundation have been up to, though, so I hope it helps. If nothing else I have it all sitting here in one place for next time I need to look it up myself. 
(And seriously, please let me know if the copy/pasting from sourcebooks is getting out of hand, I don't want to step on toes. If you like the stuff, support the writers and buy it!)
From Tír Tairngire:
[ Spoiler ]
From Shadows of North America:
[ Spoiler ]
Maria Cinebal's entry from SoNA:
[ Spoiler ]
A passing mention in Land of Promise when discussing one of the new Princes:
[ Spoiler ]
And, last but certainly not least, from the Artful Dodger section of Storm Front (I'll stop after this, before someone whacks me with a copyright bat and/or lawsuit):
[ Spoiler ]
tl;dr: I have way too much time on my hands.
I think that's most of the canon information on what Laverty and the Foundation have been up to, though, so I hope it helps. If nothing else I have it all sitting here in one place for next time I need to look it up myself. (And seriously, please let me know if the copy/pasting from sourcebooks is getting out of hand, I don't want to step on toes. If you like the stuff, support the writers and buy it!)
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