I recently stumbled across the Attitude supplement and in it I found a little gem called the Iron Will. Being the only official exoskeleton I naturally am drawn to it and want to trick it out.
My first though is mounting weapons on it. The arsenal book says that a vehicle can have one weapon mount for every 3 body. SO does this apply to reinforced weapon mounts (IE could i get two reinforced weapon mounts to give the Iron Will a total of 4 mounted weapons, or could i only get one reinforced weapons mount)?

My second thought is if the Weapon mount(s) is/are fixed, would it seem reasonable to allow them to be mounted on the arms of the suit as opposed to the main body? I suppose this is more of a question that the GM would answer rather than the rules, but I am curious none the less.

Lastly for fun, what would you trick out the exoskeleton with?

From Arsenal:



So realistically, you're going to have either two normal weapon mounts or one reinforced weapon mount. Regular weapon mounts can have anything up to LMG size on them, reinforced can mount anything larger. I don't see why you couldn't mount them on the arms; it works for cyberarm weapons, right?

What would I trick mine out with? A cape and a jetpack, of course.

However, the Iron Will has only 6 Modification Slots, and mounts take up at minimum 2 slots each (Normal Size, External Visibility, Fixed Flexibility, and Manual Control).

Pretty sure that "external visibility" is implied when used on an exoskeleton.

Not sure that modifying the weapon mount could change that either...

It's one slot if you use remote control instead of manual control (which is better for rigging anyways).

External visibility is always the cheapest option, but I could see someone going for internal visibility, to conceal the fact that the suit is armed. Going for concealment even from the driver seems pointless.

Is there even room in an exosuit to use concealed turrets?
(Without, you know, the user missing limbs)

The entry in Attitude on the Iron Will specifies that it "has no autonomy, nor was it built for any remote piloting". You'd have to modify the thing to be able to take a wireless connection, which might use more slots than you were hoping to save by using remote control.



Depends how you see the Iron Will. I've always thought of it as having exposed machinery like that giant mechanical spider from Wild Wild West. Even if the gears were concealed with plating or something, there's only so big you can get while staying on the same scale, so you only have so much room to hide things in. You'd probably have to go with disguising the weapons as part of the works, and I'd think it would be pretty obvious what was happening as soon as you tried to aim at anything.

I don't have the book containing the Iron Will but 6 mod slots are exactly enough for one internally visible remote controlled turret, if the vehicle can take standard modifications and has a BOD of at least 1. It would not be easy however (Threshold 34).

Ask and ye shall receive:



Edit: Sorry for the bad formatting, not sure how to fix that.

While it may lack any means for remote piloting, installing a remote controlled weapon mount will let that mount be remote controlled per definition. Since it can be treated as a vehicle and has a BOD of 6 it can take up to two weapon mounts including remote controlled ones.

I don't think it is a good weapon platform though. The rules say that it can be treated as a vehicle for upgrades, not for any other purpose. So you do not get any other benefit from being in a vehicle. For less than the cost of the iron will plus any weapon mount, you can get a stock steel lynx or equip a Dalmatian with a weapon mount.

A remote controlled weapon mount means it can be fired remotely. A manual controlled weapon mount requires a person to sit at the controls to fire the weapon (it requires the extra capacity of modification slots for the space for the person to sit). I would think the guns would have to be remotely controlled, unless you plan on having someone sit on the back of the exosuit to fire the gun. Otherwise the gun would just be a held weapon... right?

Not necessarily. You could also mount the weapon on the exoskeleton and have the driver fire it manually. A handheld weapon would not be connected to the exoskeleton.

Well... the entire point of the Iron Will is that it's a wearable exoskeleton, but yeah, I see what you mean. My main issue with the idea of it being remote-controlled when it doesn't have any automation is, how? There's no PAN in the Iron Will, so what exactly are you connecting the turret to in order to be able to fire it remotely? How remote can you even get if it's a wearable exoskeleton? If you're going to go to all the trouble of installing a node into the Iron Will to remotely control a LMG that you're three feet away from, you might as well just smartlink the gun and fire it from your own commlink. (Granted, in this case I'm thinking of "manual control" as having some kind of hand-grip device that pulls the trigger for you.)

If we're going with it for the purpose of "to see if we can", though, I'd probably do something like this: Six mod slots and maximum two weapon mounts due to BOD 6. Two regular mounts, one on each arm (or possibly shoulder?) with remote control. If the GM's feeling generous and not requiring you to use mod slots to install a PAN, you could go with putting Internal Visibility on each turret, which'll take up all six of your mod slots. Otherwise, I personally would go with "flexible" flexibility (90-degree fire arc) to offset how slow and clunky exosuits tend to be, which uses four of the six mod slots.

If the PAN takes one mod slot (using Rigger Adaptation as a template), that leaves you with one free... maybe some armour? Skinlink? What about an ejector seat for when someone finally decides to shoot back? Lighter-Than-Air adaptation?

Why does it have to have no PAN or wireless functionality? My take on the "no autonomy" and such means that it has no Pilot program (obvious from the Pilot 0 attribute given) and cannot move without a metahuman wearing it to actually do the moving.

In a world where every electronic device is stock with wireless functionality for diagnostics and more, I don't see why the Iron Will wouldn't have such wireless capability as well. It does have a Sensor rating of 1.

And as far as I know, a skinlink or wireless adapter (Unwired, page 200) take no mod slots at all. If the Iron Will is considered to have at least one data jack (and why wouldn't it?), 150¥ for a wireless adapter and it's now Signal 3.

Good point, I didn't notice the Sensor rating when I pasted it. Skinlinking an object doesn't take any mod slots, no, I was thinking of the Complete Skinlink modification in Arsenal (which would turn the entire Iron Will into one giant skinlink interface).

... on second thought, when I put it that way it sounds like a really bad idea. All you'd need is someone running up to it and grabbing on to be able to hack it.

If you glue a smartlinked weapon to anything, you have a external, fixed, remote control weapon. Even on a stone, which has no PAN or anything. ^^

For less cost than the iron will, you can get a gyromount.

The gyromount, however, doesn't give you doesn't set your STR to 8 (useful for non-orks and trolls) or provide you some additional armor as well. Now, just mount an SA modded Panther to one arm... I suddenly feel like the iron will looks like a primitive version of the suits in Exo-Squad.

Isn't the Iron Will basically this?

How the hell would you give it a concealed turret?

Probably more like this, but bigger still (you are 2.5m tall wearing one, after all). Likely more intuitive or articulated for the hands for the SR4 equivalent.

As for a concealed turret, probably something collapsible or a folding system into the back.

"Kinda hunched in the back, isn't it?"
"Naw, just some extra batteries."

My first impression when reading the Fluf about the Iron Will reminded me of the Power Loader from the Alien Series of movies.

It only sets the user's strength to 8. Which isn't that large, when you consider that Trolls can get that naturally.
So I think it's more like my link than yours.

True, but I'd wager the Iron Will actually has support for the arms.

Thats pretty much how i imagined the Iron will. Maybe scaled down alittle, but still something to that effect. Though I would like to imagine that more tricked out versions (which Attitude mentions) look more like THIS.

There is also the option of mounting Vehicle Only weapons on it from Arsenal as most of them simply require a fixed weapons mount or heavy turret.

So here's some mods i would consider (mix and match as you wish)

+2x weapon mounts (external, fixed, remote)----Any nice big weapon combo.
+Armor (however high you could get it)
+Body Stabilization (for the recoil compensation, making up for the loss of agility i suppose, and helping avoid being knocked over
+Ammo bin: obviously to give you more ammo to work with
+Valkyrie module: to stabilize you if your armor is pierced.
+rocket boosters: because LOL!
+ECM: since you are a giant walking target
+Smoke Projector: Nothing scarier than not being able to see the hulking metal mecha baring down on you (assuming you give it proper sensors to compensate

I know ultimately the concept serves no real point beyond "Cos its fun", but in the end thats what matters, having fun =D.

Technically true, but I find a fixed ship laser or a heavy cannon on a steel lynx ridiculous.

If you want two, you are limited to LMGs. Bigger guns count as 2 weapon mounts to determine how many can be put into a vehicle.
Possible, but since the Iron Will is not a vehicle, you will not benefit much from it.
The Iron Will does not have Walker Mode, as such it cannot take that modification.

Which is a good position to argue from, though the Steel Lynx cannot mount either of those weapon systems anyways.

Why not? It is a vehicle. It has BOD 4, which means it can take two weapon mounts (BOD/3 rounded up). That is enough for one reinforced fixed mount, which can take a vehicle weapon.

Becasue you round down.
Reinforced Mounts require 6 Body.
And Turrets require Body 10, IIRC.

That't the rule from the core book, which does not have reinforced mounts of any kind. Arsenal which also contains these weapons and mounts says something else:

I never said anything about turrets those require BOD 14. I meant a fixed remote controlled reinforced mount.

True...
Reinforced mounts require a 6 Body (they require double the amount of Body rating that a standard mount does)... not a 4, rounded up.
And if I remember correctly (no Book handy), Main Guns require Turrets.

most main guns require heavy turrets, though some in their description can be "fixed". Now mount some of those things on a Horseman with one of its optional addons. Now you're being silly.

I agree that mounting it on a Horseman is silly... Mounting it on a Large Drone is even sillier. *shrug*

Always found it interesting that a Reinforced weapon mount eludes to being able to mount a main weapon (just says "larger than LMG size" with no upper limit), but then the Heavy Turret weapon mount option makes it sound like it's the only one that'll actually hold a main weapon (and seems to elude to mean you don't need a Reinforced weapon mount).

Well, you need a Heavy Turret, which requires a Reinforced Weapons Mount. Otherwise it is ludicrous.

Not quite. You get two (regular) weapon mounts at BOD 4-6 as I quoted and here's the other rule that let's you get one reinforced mount:
No, fixed mounts or turrets:Neither of the two weapons I mentioned has further mounting restrictions.
So RAW, but silly, or awesome, depending on the type of game. A Dalmatian with a gauss cannon would make one heck of a predator drone.

So, Dakka Dakka, you are okay with allowing a Drone to mount a weapon that outweighs the drone by a factor of at least 20 (or more)?

I enforce the Body 6 requirement for a Reinforced Mount. Since it requires a Body 6 (2 Normal Mounts). I do not allow the partial body to round it up for that Reinforced mount. You may call that an interpretation, and you may have an argument for that, but I don't really care, becasue it keeps stupidy from coming to the front.

If you want the Gauss Canon or Lasers on your Drone, use the Man-portable ones.

Not really, I was just remarking that it is indeed RAW to allow that combination. I have no problems with two regular mounts or one reinforced mount on a vehicle with BOD 4, but putting a vehicle weapon in that mount is too much for me.

Indeed... Main Guns are not for Drones.

Until Bod 14 drones are made.

1. LMG might be the biggest it can handle if you want two, but that should still leave some room for some nice combos... or do laser weapons, flame throwers, and grenade launchers count as being bigger than the LMG size for the purpose of mounting(does anyone know)? Even if they are, there is still always the option for modding the LMGs with under-slung weapons (albeit with limited ammo due to their nature)
2. If it wouldn't help there is always the Personal Armor mod instead which specifically is said to protect the driver/pilot.
3. The mod doesn't specify walker mode as a requirement (unless its in a errata that i havent seen). While it does talk about walkers in the description i would still constitute the Iron will as a Walker by virtue that it does have 2 legs and thus needs assistance to maintain balance, especially when lifting large objects. A pilot can only exert so much control over the rig before they need components to take over.

Well, In my opinion, any of the Rifles (Gauss Rifle, Laser Rifle, Sniper Rifle, etc.) are smaller than Machine Guns. So they are available to be mounted on the Standard Weapons Mount. Could go either way for an Assault Cannon.

Gauss Rifle? Isn't that the same size as an Assault Cannon?

Probably... But it is not really all that big (sized to about the same as a Barrett, I would guess), and does not actually fire assault cannon rounds, so...

Not super important, just felt like pasting it from the PDF.

Ares Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle: The Thunderstruck rifle
is the first man-portable gauss weapon and Ares’s newest contribution
to the assault cannon market. The weapon’s measurements
and weight are comparable to that of assault cannons, and while its
damage potential is slightly below that of an assault cannon round,
the Thunderstruck’s rate of fire is higher.

Yes, I know, I generally base my assessmant upon how man portable it is. MMG+ are crew served weapons (and for comparison, while an M-60 MG is carried by a single person, it is still a crew served weapon, while the M249 SAW is not); if it is man-portable and supported by a single man, then it is LMG or smaller. Since the Thunderstruck is man-portable (and uses E-Clips and ammo Clips/Magazines no less), I consider it applicable for the Standard Weapon Mount. May be a bit too arbitrary for some people, but it works for us.

I personally classify LMGs as any sustained autofire weapon that fires Assault Rifle class ammunition, MMGs as firing Battle Rifle class ammo, and HMGs as firing .50 caliber or larger rounds.

It happens many other folks classify similarly.




-k

Where would you classify a Rifle that fires a 12.7mm slug (Barrett)? The Barrett fires HMG class ammunition, and yet is still a Rifle that fits to a Standard Mount, whereas the HMG requires a Reinforced Mount. Same goes with the Battle Rifle vs. MMG.

See, I do not really see much of a difference between the Barrett and the Gauss Rifle, and honestly even the Assault Cannon. Thus they can both be fitted to a standard mount (They are not inherently fully automatic weapons requiring more than a single person to fire effectively). An MMG/HMG, however cannot be fired in a sustained mode by a lone person, thus the designation of crew served, and therefore the requirement of a reinforced mount. *shrug*

Wat.

While that is a sensible classification, the thing is MMGs and LMGs are by definition larger than LMGs can still be made metahuman-portable and can be used by a single person. The descriptions of the M202 and the Ultimax HMG-2 even say so.

The problem is that there is no clear guideline as to which weapon is larger than an LMG. An H&K PSG-1 certainly is longer than an M249 but not as bulky. Now is it larger or not?

Also true... It is an arbitrary classification that has not been clarified in Shadowrun; as such, I tend to take my RL experiences into account to fill in that gap.

Please read what I said.

In my opinion, the Assault Cannon, despite its actual name, is a man-portable, single shot Rifle (as described in the book). It is not a crew served weapon, nor is it capable of FA fire (though yes, it can be modified as such). Therefore, I might allow it to be mounted to a Standard Mount (no-one has ever asked if they could do that, though), rather than a reinforced Mount. *shrug*

A Main Cannon, on the other hand, trolls can only WISH were man portable, single shot notwithstanding, and therefore require a Reinforced Mount or Turret.