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Fu-Man Chu
One thing I had always wanted to do was create Skill Sets that would give a group of skills at something of a discount - sort of to reflect the fact that organized, methodical training and teaching is effective. Having stumbled upon Origins in TSS #8, I decided to modify it to fit with my campaign's character creation (we use BeCKs v.2). Here it is for you all to give feedback and critique!

Military
Requirement: Bod 3+, Str 3+, Quik 3+
Time Required: 4 years
Cost: 40 Karma (giving about 44 Karma worth of skills)
[Skills designated with an asterick (*) indicates an appropriate skill of that type can be chosen]

MOS

INFANTRY
  • Assault Rifle: 4
  • Pistol: 3
  • Athletic: 2
  • Etiquette (Military): 1 (3)
  • Thrown Weapons (Grenade): 1 (3)
  • Unarmed Combat: 2
  • Misc (choose one from below): 3
    • Electronics (Requires Int 3+)
    • Biotech (Medic: Requires Int 3+)
    • Vehicle*
    • Vehicle B/R* (Mechanic: Requires Int 3+)
    • Shotgun
    • Heavy Weapons
    • Rifles
    • Launch Weapons
ARMOR (Requires Int 3+)
  • Assault Rifle: 3
  • Pistol: 2
  • Athletic: 2
  • Etiquette (Military): 1 (2)
  • Unarmed Combat: 2
  • Vehicle* or Gunnery: 3
  • Vehicle* or Gunnery: 4
ENGINEER CORPS (Requires Int 3+)
  • Assault Rifle: 2
  • Pistol: 1
  • Electronic: 3
  • Etiquette (Military): 1 (2)
  • Vehicle* or Weapon*: 2
  • Vehicle* or Weapon*: 2
  • Vehicle B/R* or Weapon B/R*: 3
  • Vehicle B/R* or Weapon B/R*: 4
RIGGER (Requires Int 3+ and VCR)
  • Assault Rifle: 2
  • Pistol: 1
  • Etiquette (Military): 1 (2)
  • Gunnery: 3
  • Vehicle*: 5
  • Vehicle*: 2
  • Vehicle B/R*: 2
MATRIX CORPS (Requires Int 5+ and Datajack)
  • Assault Rifle: 2
  • Pistol: 1
  • Etiquette (Military): 1 (2)
  • Computer: 5
  • Electronics: 3
  • Computer B/R: 3
MAGIC CORPS (Requires Wil 5+ and Cha 4+)
  • Assault Rifle: 2
  • Pistol: 1
  • Etiquette (Military): 1 (3)
  • Sorcery: 5
  • Conjuring: 4
  • Computer B/R: 3
  • Aura Reading: 1


All who have completed their 4 years of service can choose to have advanced training in the military.

NON-COMMISIONED OFFICER (NCO) (Requires Wil 4+ and Cha 3+)
Cost: +18 Karma
  • Etiquette (Military): 2 (4)
  • Intimidate: 3
  • Leadership: 1
  • Small Unit Tactics: 3


COMMISIONED OFFICER (CO) (Requires Int 3+ and Cha 3+)
Cost: +30 Karma and +1 year for Officer Training School
  • Etiquette (Military): 3 (5)
  • Leadership: 4
  • Small Unit Tactics: 4
SPECIAL FORCES (Requires: Bod 4+, Str 4+, Quik 4+, Will 4+ and Int 3+ and INFANTRY MOS)
Cost: +50 Karma and +4 years
  • Assault Rifle: 5
  • Submachine Gun: 4
  • Small Unit Tactics: 3
  • Stealth: 4
  • Demolition: 3
  • Athletics: 3


I've never been in the military so thoughts and suggestions welcomed! Thanks!

edit: Added Rifles to the Infantry Misc skills
Austere Emancipator
Earlier discussions about soldier-skills. The last one has a lot of good stuff in it in particular, although I still don't completely agree with the author's assessments.

About your lists:

Small Unit Tactics should be added at a rather low level to many/most of these.

Infantry:
Could enforce a Specialization on the Assault Rifles skill.
Most infantry personnel do not train with pistols. Military Police and some others might, but the massive majority of grunts don't.
Athletics should be higher, at least 3. Physical training is very important in all armies.
Including Stealth at a low level (1 or 2) is not a bad idea.
Your list of optional skills looks good, although Shotgun looks out of place. MPs should perhaps be differentiated some other way.

Armor:
I'm not sure how things are done in the US, but around here armor crewmen are not trained with pistols.
Athletics-2 seems a bit low even for armor crews.
Not certain, but Unarmed Combat might not be taught to armor crewmen.

Engineer:
Again not sure about the US, but engineers get almost as much training with their assault rifles as riflemen around here. If armor crews have AR-3, then so should Engineers, IMO.
Again with the Pistol skill...
Engineers should have Athletics, at least at 2. I doubt they are exempt from PT.

Rigger:
Pistol again.
Should include token Athletics-1.

Matrix:
I have no idea what sort of combat training these guys would get. I suggest you just give them AR-2 and forget the Pistol skill. Again.

Magic:
As above, I suggest AR-2 and no Pistol.
Canonically, Aura Reading-1 is completely useless, it can never provide any bonus. I suggest either boosting it to 2 or dropping it.
Should include Athletics-1 or 2, these guys might have to be in the thick of things.

NCO:
Leadership-1 seems too low. I'd suggest at least 2, maybe 3. Otherwise I agree with the way you've handled it.

CO:
I've no problems with those. I don't remember how officer training works there, so I won't comment on the times or terminology.

Special Forces:
Well now... What sort of Special Forces should this be? Are you thinking of the Shadowrun equivalent of the current US Army Special Forces? If so, they should have specializations as per the Operational Detachment Alpha breakdown, which you can find here, along with other useful information.

There are dozens of Special Operations units in the US military alone, and many have very different approaches to the whole thing. A single skill-set cannot possibly do them justice.
Siege
I was tinkering with the idea of backgrounds and packages for related skill sets, but this looks pretty good.

I'll have to give this a more thorough read later.

-Siege

Edit: Given the significance of Int 5, I'd lower that requirement, otherwise the military wouldn't get all that many people into the service.

Copy that for the magical corps -- if you can cast magic at all, I'd imagine they'd take you and find something for you to do. The talent is just that rare and a wiz-worm who wants to be in the Service, rarer still.

I did my infantry a little differently -- I assumed the UCAS continued the US move towards smaller reactionary force groups and created this structure:

Basic Infantry
>AIT
>Sniper
>Heavy weapons
>Medical
>Technical Support
>Vehicle/vehicle support
>spec forces (as Aus pointed out, there's quite a few with different responsibilities)
>etc.

I'd have to dig out the master list, but I went for pretty limited skill sets as "minimums" required for purchase. For example, every recruit passing BI training to move on had to have +2 AR, +1 athletics and a few knowledge skills thrown in.

Most players could and would pick more, but the minimum required would be those skills. Then each "school" had it's own entrance requirements including time in service, exams and so forth. At the end of each school, the recruit had to pass a test of some sort or run into Black Marks which impact his or her career negatively.

Sorry, rambling after a really, really long shift.
KillaJ
In the US Army armor soldiers are trained to use a pistol and in unarmed combat(not much training but there is a little). Also I would give them both vehicle and gunnery skill because all tankers are trained to perform in any position in the tank(except TC). I dont know much about the others but I was a tanker.
PS You might wanna drop the INT restriction also. wink.gif
Siege
I know a treadhead.

I'll second that Int requirement. grinbig.gif

-Siege
KillaJ
QUOTE
I'll second that Int requirement.
I wish I could say that they only take the best and brightest, but the fact of the matter is you dont need much more then a pulse.
dEdDaWg
Might I suggest looking at Twighlight 2000 for inspiration.
Lantzer
I understand where you are coming from, but do you think it's a good idea to mix
a skills package with BeCKS?

The whole point of BeCKS, after all, is that skills cost the same at char gen and during play, to reduce the amount of metagaming choices on char gen.

The point of a skills package, as presented, is to grant sets of skills at a rebate for character generation, essentially getting more for the same amount of karma.

Sort of at cross-purposes aren't they? I find that it's fairly easy to sit down with a player at char gen and work out what skills would be appropriate for their background.
No special rules are required, and we end up with something that makes sense to us.
Arethusa
Whoah, the point of BeCKS is not to get rid of metagaming at char gen. If you want to get rid of metagaming at chargen, just don't use a system at all and let people put together a comprehensive explanation for why they have the skills they have. BeCKS just removes the linearity of the canon systems that promotes and enforces specialization. That's all.
Diesel
Heavy weapons and launch weapons should be part of the basic infantry skills bit, if at 2s. Everyone gets to play with the the 249, 240B, and 203 at least a little bit, in addition to missiles and other good stuff. Also, specialized ARs, because they don't teach you much outside your own weapon except at SF levels. This is all US, of course.
Siege
Well, the US model is as good as any to use since we're discussing the UCAS. grinbig.gif

-Siege
Chance359
I have an approach that I found several years ago, and have recently changed it over to Karma instead of out right skill points.


EDIT: Can't get the contacts/enemies table to setup right, if anyone is interested, send me a message.



0-18
Corporate Child: Characters who choose this path receive 9 karma to distribute between Electronics and computer. They also receive 10 Karma for use in the following areas, Interests, Knowledge, Academic, and Sixth World. They also receive a legitimate SIN issued through they corp. resided in. In addition, they add 6 Karma for the use of spells, spirits, and initiation.

Military Brat: Characters who choose this path receive 12 Karma to distribute between Etiquette (Military), Athletics, Stealth, and Unarmed Combat styles. They also receive 20 Karma for Interests and Knowledge areas. They receive a SIN issued from the government. In addition, they add 6 Karma for the use of spells, spirits, and initiation.

Normal Child: Characters who choose this path receive 9 karma points to distribute between Electronics, Computer, Biotech, or B/R skills. They also receive 10 karma points to each of the following groups, Interests, Knowledge, Academic, and Sixth World. They also receive a legitimate SIN issued from the government. In addition, they receive 6 Karma for the use of spells, spirits, and initiation.

Rich Kid: Characters who choose this path gain 15 karma points to distribute on the following skills; Athletics, Stealth (Sneaking), Etiquette (Rich Folks), or Computer. They also gain the following knowledge skills; High Society Politics, High Society (City of Choice), and a secondary Language skill all at level 3

Street Kid: Characters who choose this path gain 15 karma points to distribute between Etiquette (Street), Athletics, Stealth, Pistols, Shotguns, Edged Weapons, Throwing weapons, Unarmed Combat styles. They also receive 10 karma points to Interests group, 15 karma points to Street group, 5 karma point to Sixth World group. In addition, they add 6 Karma for spells, spirits, and initiation.

Wild Child: Characters who choose this path gain 15 Karma points to distribute on the following skills; Athletics, Stealth (tracking or sneaking), Rifles, Shotguns, or Projectile weapons. They also receive the following knowledge skills; Botany, Para-botany, Zoology, Para-zoology, all at level 2. In addition they receive 6 Karma for spells, spirits, and initiation. (10 if a wilderness Totem)

Teen years: For every year from now until the game begins, the character gains 3 karma points, 10 karma points for use on knowledge skills, and 2 Karma points for the use of spells, spirits, and initiation (if magically active). If a character fails a roll, then they gain the years but not the skill points.

(Each of the following takes 4 years)
Working the Streets: Normal, Rich, and Wild children choose their lowest physical attribute and try to roll under that on a D6. If successful, you get 18 Karma points and 15 Karma points in the Street category. If the player fails the roll, they get the years but not the skills. Street and Go-gang kids only receive 12 Karma points and 10 Karma (in either Street or Interest categories), but they do not have to roll.

In the Military: All applicants need to roll under their body on a D6. They gain 18 Karma for us on active skills. They also receive 15 Karma for knowledge skills, but must put at least one point into athletics, assault rifles, and small unit tactics. Upon completion of your term, roll 1D6, if this roll is greater then your willpower +1, then you are dishonorbly discharged from the military. Anyone who accepts this gains a SIN and a credstick, if dishonorably discharched, that fact is noted on your credstick.

Officer Training: Anyone who either served one tour in the military or entered service after attending the Higher Education program is eligible for Officer's Training. Cannidates attempt to roll under their lowest mental attribute. If successful they receive 12 Karma points for use of Leadership, Etiquette, or the Etiquette (Military).

Working the Corps.: Street, Go-gang, and Wild children choose their highest mental attribute and try to roll under that on a D6. If successful, you get 18 Karma points for use on active skills. They also receive 15 Karma points in the Academic category. If the player fails the roll, they get the years but not the skills. Normal and Rich children only receive 12 Karma points for use on active skills. In addition they receive 10 Karma poins to spend on either Sixth World or Interest categories, but they do not have to roll.

Higher Education: Street, Wild, and Go-gang must roll under their intelligence on a D6 to gain entry. If they make it, they receive a legit SIN, and 12 Karma points to distribute amongst Technical, Social, Magical, or B/R skills. They also gain 20 Karma points for the following knowledge skills; Literature, History, Writing, Psychology, Biology, Sociology, Art, or Philosophy. Normal and Rich kids need not make a roll.

Each of the following takes 3 years per set.
Mercenary: In order to take this set, you must have been in the military of 4 years, or worked the streets for 4 years. Potential Mercenaries must roll under both their lowest physical and mental attributes. If successful on the physical roll, they gain 12 points to distribute among the following skills; Etiquette (Mercenary), Assault Rifles, Heavy Weapons, Unarmed Combat, Parachuting, Athletics. If successful on the mental roll, they gain 12 points to distribute among the following skills; Etiquette (Mercenary), Negotiations, Survival or Small Unit Tactics. They also gain one free level 1 contact.

Mercenary Commander: Anyone who served one tour as a Mercenary and passed one or both of the rolls is eligible for Officer's Training. Cannidates attempt to roll under their lowest mental attribute. If successful they receive 9 Karma points for use of Leadership, Negotiations, or the Etiquette (Mercenary).

Law Enforcement: Must have a SIN with no legal violations on it to apply for this set.
Applicants must roll under their highest physical lowest mental on a D6. If successful they gain 9 Karma points for use on active skills, and 25 karma points in either Sixth World or Street categories.

As the years go by. Roll 2D6, one roll per year.
2-3: Disaster Strikes
4-5: Contact (Roll for contact, all are considered level 1)
6-7: Enemy (Roll for archetype, then roll Table 2.)
8-9: Legit Job (Table 3)
10-11: Romantic Involvement (Table 4)
12: Lady Luck

Disaster Strikes: Table 1 (roll 2D6)
2: Financial loss or debt of 3D6x1000 nuyen.
3: You are imprisoned for 1D6/2 years. However, now you do have a SIN and credstick if you didn’t before although your prison record is encoded on it.
4: You owe someone a favor: (roll 1D6)
1: A local gang
2: Yakuza
3: Mafia
4: Triads
5: The cops
6: A corporation

5: Hunted by an underground organization: (roll 1D6)
1: A local gang
2-3: Yakuza
4-5: Mafia
6: Triads

6: Betrayal: (roll 1D6)
1-2: Your being blackmailed.
3-4: One of your secrets has been revealed.
5-6: You were betrayed by a friend or lover.

7: Accident: (roll 1D6)
1-2: You were horribly disfigured. Gain the distinctive flaw at no value
3-4: You were hospitalized for a year.
5-6: You lose a year of memory.

8: You lose your free contacts.
9: Hunted by a corporation: (roll 1D6)
1-2: Local corporation
3-4: National corporation
5-6: International corporation

10: Hunted by the law: (roll 1D6)
1-2: A few local cops want you.
3-4: The entire local law enforcement agency wants you.
5-6: A national law enforcement or security wants you.

11: Lover, friend, or relative killed: (roll 1D6)
1-2: They were accidentally killed.
3-4: They were murdered by an unknown party or parties.
5-6: Their murderer or murderers are known to you.

12: Falsely accused: (roll 1D6)
1-2: Accused of Murder.
3-4: Accused of Theft.
5-6: Accused of rape or assault.

Table 2
Roll 2D6, then 2D6 again
(2) Legitmate (3) Police (4) Magical
(2) Mortician (2) Forensic Mage (2) Physical Adept
(3) Newsman (3) Forensic Detective (3) Burnout Mage
(4) Nurse (4) Street Cop (4) Shaman
(5) Janitor (5) Plain Clothes Cop (5) Former Wage Mage
(6) Attorney (6) Mage Detective (6) Magical Security Spec
(7) Pedestrain (7) Detective (7) Combat Mage
(8) Hotel Manager (8) Homicide Detective (8) Combat Shaman
(9) Fisherman (9) Vice Detective (9) Talismonger
(10 Club Owner (10) Gang Unit Detective (10) Street Mage
(11) Psychologist (11) SWAT Rigger (11) Street Mage
(12) Store Owner (12) SWAT Member (12) Tribal Shaman

(5) Corporate (6) Street (7) Organized Crime
(2) Corp. Courier (2) BTL Dealer (2) Yakuza Soldier
(3) Corp. Decker (3) Fence (3) Yakuza Magician
(4) Company Man (4) Fixer (4) Yakuza Fixer
(5) Corp. Mailboy (5) Prostitute (5) Triad Soldier
(6) Corp. Official (6) Gang Member (6) Triad Magician
(7) Corp. Rigger (7) Gang Boss (7) Triad Fixer
(8) Corp. Scientist (8) Taxi Driver (8) Mafia Soldier
(9) Corp. Secretary (9) Wiz Kid Mage (9) Mafia Fixer
(10) Corp. Security (10) Gang Poser (10) Seoulpa Solder
(11) Corp. Wage Mage (11) Loan Shark (11) Seoulpa Magicain
(12) Corp. Wage Slave (12) Policlub Member (12) Seoulpa Fixer

(8) Technical (9) (Para)Military (10) Government
(2) Armorer (2) Officer (2) City Official
(3) Technician (3) Quartermaster (3) City Worker
(4) Dwarf Technician (4) Rigger (4) District Attorney
(5) Deck Meister (5) Sergeant (5) Public Defender
(6) Corporate Researcher (6) Soldier (6) Librarian
(7) Street Doc (7) Former Tribal Warrior (7) Government Official
(8) Linguist (8) Magician (8) City Treasure
(9) College Professor (9) Fixer (9) Tax Collector
(10) Paramedic (10) Mercenary (10) DOT Official
(11) School Teacher (11) Dealer*B6 (11) Judge
(12) Mechanic (12) Metorplex Guardmen (12) Government Fixer

(11) Entertainment (12) Shadowrunners
(2) Artist (2) Mage
(3) Agent (3) Shaman
(4) Cameraman (4) Physical Adept
(5) Fan (5) Detective
(6) Fashion Model (6) Mercenary
(7) Simsense Extra (7) Street Samuria
(8) Sportsman (8) Smuggler
(9) Simsense Technician (9) Combat Decker
(10) Author (10) Weapons Specialist
(11) Personality (11) Drone Rigger
(12) Underground Reporter (12) Covert Ops Specialist
*Dealer is a mercenary fixer, only characters with a mercenary background may take this contact, all other re-roll.

Table 3 (roll 1D6)
1: Your enemy goes into murderous fury on sight.
2-4: Refuses to have anything to do with you no matter what the nuyen involved.
5: Will secretly try to thwart your plans.
6: Your enemy will arrange an accident to happen to you, a loved one or an unconnected 3rd party and then try to frame you for it.

Table 4 (roll 1D6)
1: It was a good job. Those without a SIN now have one, and receive (3D6+2)x1000 nuyen in wages.
2-3: It was a desk job and word gets out on the streets that you’re a pencil pusher. Lose your free contacts, but receive 2D6x1000 nuyen in wages.
4: It was a dud offer, and you waste a year.
5: It was a normal job. You receive (2D6+2)x1000 nuyen in wages.
6: Your employer didn’t want you to quit but you did. Now they are trying to re-aquire you. (roll table 4.1)

Table 4.1
Your employer was: (roll 1D6)
1: An international corporation
2: A national corporation
3: A local corporation
4: The Mafia
5: The Yakuza
6: The Triads

Table 5
Romantic Involvement: (roll 1D6)
1: How did the relationship end? (Roll on table A)
Table A (roll 1D6)
1: It didn’t (person is a Buddy)
2: In hostility (person is an “enemy” roll table 2)
3-4: Neutrally (person is not a contact at all)
5-6: Positively (person is a normal Contact)

2-3: Fast Affairs and hot dates.
4: Tragic Affair (roll table 5.1)
5-6: Affair with problems (roll table 5.2)

Table 5.1 (roll 1D6)
1: The lover died accidentally
2: Lover was murdered
3-4: It just didn’t work out
5: Lover left you
6: Lover suddenly vanished

Table 5.2 (roll 1D6)
1-2: No one thinks you’re a good couple
3: One of you has a romantic rival
4: One of you is insanely jealous
5-6: You are separated in some way

Table 6 (roll 2D6)
2: You gain a powerful, high-level contact. Roll 1D6 evens is government, odds is corporate.
3: You find a college professor willing to help you. You gain 15 karma points for use on Academic knowledge skills.
4: You win a vehicle worth 30,000 nuyen or less.
5: You find a technical teacher. You gain 6 karma points to spend in biotech, computer, electronics or any build and repair skills.
6: You gain a financial windfall of (3D6+2) x 2000 nuyen.
7: You gain a gang contact (the whole gang): Roll 1D6
1. Magical Gang
2. Go-Gang
3. Street Gang
4. Matrix Gang
5. Tribal Gang
6. Re-roll.
8: You find a physical expert trainer. You gain 6 karma points for use on Stealth, Athletics, or Unarmed Combat skills.
9: You find an ancient weapons expert. You gain 6 karma points for use on Blunt Weapons, Edged Weapons, Polearms/Staffs, Projectile Weapons, or Throwing Weapons.
10: You find a modern weapons expert. You gain 6 karma points for use on any firearms or gunnery skills.
11: You find an underground organization contact (Level 2). Roll 1D6
1. Mafia
2. Triad
3. Yakuza
4. Seoupla Ring
5. Second Tier Gang member
6. Top Tier Gang member
12: You gain a Level 2 Law Enforcement Contact. Roll 1D6
1. Lone Star
2. Knight Errant
3. Hard Corps
4. Eagle
5. Running Wolf
6. UCAS FBI
Siege
Hmmm...some interesting ideas there.

-Siege
Chance359
Thanks, it's mutated several times for the orginial version over the past decade, but the main problem I need to tweak is the table results. It worked better back when you had to use D8s, D12s, and D20s. I also need to lower the bonus for knowledge skills in the "teen years" section.
Abstruse
Yeech, that sounds like MechWarrior 3rd ed stuff in that last post...

I do like the idea of package skills and have been thinking of doing something myself for build point/priority (I don't like BeCKS that much just because characters tend to be less specialized and more general, since you can get two Rating 4 skills at the cost of one Rating 6. I can see how someone would like it and it's a solid system, just not my cup of tea. Trying to give an opinion without sparking flames is hard ^_^;; )

And though I can't speak from personal experience, I can speak from the experience of people I know to say that pretty much all US military personel are trained in the use of handguns as all soldiers (even ones in the techy jobs) are issued a sidearm when on active duty. They must know how to use it properly, how to clean it, and in most cases I know of, they know how to break it down very well.

The Abstruse One
shadd4d
Mutant Chronicles did something with that too. It helped a lot in figuring out something about the character.

Sometimes the randomness is good.

Don
Chance359
The system I've posted can be applied as the last phase of character creation for any system.
Apathy
One comment: Engineers aren't mechanics, (at least in the US). Combat engineers are primarily responsible for making or bypassing obsticles (i.e. laying or clearing minefields, etc.)


This was my take on Soldier stats:

[ Spoiler ]


In terms of size of units:
  • 3 soldiers per infantry fire team, 3 teams/squad, 4squads/platoon, 3 platoons/company, 4-5 companies/battalion
  • 3-4 crew/tank or arty or mortar carrier, 4 tanks/platoon, 3.5 platoons/company, 4.5 companies/battalion
  • 2 crew/truck, 4 trucks/squad, 4 squads/platoon, 3 platoons/company, 4 companies/battalion

Most combat units would be mixed. So, for instance a battalion-sized fire team might have:
  • 1 tank-heavy company containing 2 tank platoons and 1 inf platoon
  • 3 inf-heavy companies containing 3 inf platoons and 1 tank platoon
  • 1 mortar platoon
  • 1 scout platoon


Xirces
OMG - someone mentioned Twilight 2000! I'd forgotten that ever existed...

I'm not sure about the whole lifepath thing in SR - it doesn't jive IMO with the "static" nature of chargen - you're leaving too much to chance. I'd prefer just having guidelines of what a character with a certain background should have, but nothing hard and fast. But then, I think the background and skillset should be tweaked with the other in mind to get the best balance.

Of course, the fact that SR are so limited in the skills they can have makes creating sensible backgrounds very difficult indeed, but I'm not sure what the solution to that should be and it's been discussed elsewhere anyway.
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