hey fairly simple question. what would be the pros and cons of using one or the other? assume both have personalized grips, smartgun systems, yadda yadda, but that the warhawk also has increased cylinder size and has been modded to fire in SA not SS.

For me it is a Preference issue. I FAR prefer the Ruger Super-Warhawk. Style all the way.

yeah, I do like the war-hawk. it has the bada$$ feel to it for sure. And it seems I still somehow buggered up my signature :/. still hard decision since I enjoy both. or rather the concept of both.

Isn't the Thunderbolt the standard issue for Lone Star? Fires a 3 round burst?

Yes, It is, and in a city where Lone Star holds sway, it is generally a bad thing to carry, since it has a distinctive sound signature (fluff, of course)

The only thing I ever really remember about it. It's generally a bad idea to carry the firearm that the law enforcement carry.

if you ain't doing some work to implicate them of course.

Well, the Thunderbolt can only be fired 4 times (without extended magazine) before it is empty whereas the Warhawk can be fired 8 times before being empty. The Thunderbolt reloads quickly while the Warhawk does not without a speed loader or high agility. The Thunderbolt does 1 more point of damage but the Warhawk has 1 more point of AP. The Thunderbolt uses up most of its mod slots on recoil comp while the Warhawk uses up most of its mod slots on fire change and extra ammo capacity.
So what does this tell us? The differences are minimal though the Warhawk is dirt cheap. Pick the one you like the most stylistically if you aren't in a LoneStar city, otherwise go with the Warhawk.

The Thunderbolt CAN be silenced.
The Warhawk is a Revolver and can not be silenced as far as i know.
Technically, with the Smart Motor for Ammo-Selection, one should also be able to make a Revolver into a SA Weapon, but the rules say no.
If you are good at fast talking, High-Power-Chambering ads to the Damage and you can get ExEx Ammo on top of that . .
Usually somebody calls Bulldrek on that though, as you are getting closer to PAC Damage than you are to Shotgun Damage at that point . .

My prefered Thunderbolt is modded for FA with extended magazine (and whatever recoil compensation fits in; yeah, a cyberarm gyromount comes in handy with this one).

Even though you are only carrying a sidearm, you are packing the punch of an assault rifle (almost; and only on close ranges, of course).

Bye
Thanee

wanna go one further?
ask why you should not be able to get something like that as a cyber-arm-gun . .

Which do you think is more awesome: a hand-cannon firing bursts like Robocop's gun, or a honkin' big revolver that sounds like God clapping his hands?

Because, either way, you're going to be firing something that will probably one-shot whatever you're pointing it at, and you're looking at a kill per action, effectively. My advice, then, is to just figure out which one appeals to you aesthetically, and go from there.

You theoretically could. After all, it's only a heavy pistol. Although as far as the books are written the only implant capable weapons are the generic ones we have listed.

One of each. I get exciteable as to choices.

Revolvers? They are so 19th century ... no chance you spot me with one of those "ancient" things

which you can still mod right?
now:
An SA shotgun can be modded into a BF Shotgun right?
And it can be modded with high power too right?
And then you can put in Ex Ex Ammo correct?
Now this is propper dakka you can not lose.

You mean high powered chambering? You can only use high powered ammo I thought. No ex ex in those moddes types

my thinking is:
high powered ammo is just a different projectile needed, so why would you not be able to high power other ammo?
technically, it should allow for high powered ex ex(expensive of course) or APDS(you are joking right?), but it should, in theory, work.
i'll be the first to admit that my grip on the SR4 rules is not as firm as that of others . .

It's stated pretty clearly in the rules that that isn't how it works.

I'd give you a +1 rep, if they still did that.

Technically there are no rules for HP ammo outside of standard rounds. Also the part where the implanted shotgun is already an avail 20 and HP rounds stupidly hard to get as well as being forbidden.

Using modern knowledge we know that a HP round is just a hot load that wouldn't be that much harder to get a hold of and you could modify the projectile portion. (and not have an arbitrary amount of "recoil"). Sorry, I'm really trying to not go off on the HP rules again.

In a campaign I ran 10-15 years ago, I had a player who thought his big tough ork was indestructible (getting hit by a moving van at cruising speed and not taking damage didn't help), and it started to go to his head. Then one day, a company man showed up on the scene, and shot him in the head with a RSW. Deadly wound in one hit. That set him straight.

You can always do the "Optimized Sniper with BF Rifle and a few rounds of Aiming"-thing going. Dead Char every time ... if you want that...

Oh, a deadly wound wasn't my intent. But the PC just left himself open and the NPC had high skill and threat rating (SR2?). I was happy to let it go and not fudge it, because I was happy to see him get put in his place.

Arsenal, page 151: Revolver Silencer, 4 Slots, Cost 2,500¥, Availability 16F

On topic of the original post, I'm with TJ. Warhawk, and style, all the way.

I can agree here.
I'm currently putting together a concept for the pistols-only-approach of my character (strength of 2 and the desire to pack multiple weapons lead to using handguns very quickly ). So far I've come up with dual Thunderbolts (smart), modded with firing selection change (FA), personalized grip, powered folding stock, underbarrel weight, and an external sound suppressor (not enough slots integrate it). Allows my character to fire two long bursts with minimum recoil, as far as I recall. To be used in situations when two bullets a combat round ain't gonna cut it. This isn't meant for dinner parties, this gear is packed for going to war.

Assuming my GM lets me use two folding stocks at once, one set to each shoulder, character's chest facing the enemy both guns are aimed at (I don't have experience with guns, so just my personal logic):
Each gun has its own recoil compensation of 5 (2 due to design, 1 from the grip, 1 from the underbarrel weight, 1 from the stock as it is a pistol), so this would leave me at no penalty firing the first gun with the character's first simple action, then firing the other in the second one on a penalty of -1 (not counting off-hand).
Anyone see any holes in this logic? If so, please tell me.

Though I have to admit, the Super Warhawk is just classic.

aye I had a char ex-swat one of my first. dual war-hawks, had as spares dual colts. the war-hawks turned out to be nice little thing even when you wanted a lot of dakka. load up ex-ex rounds you have 7P and -3AP 2-4 shots a round the GM house ruled that if you are aiming both weapons at the same target you can apply laser sight or smartguns to the total dice pool before splitting. was nice of him. best part is while you pick people off the other guys are shooting at the troll carrying the machine gun lol. or the mage.

If you dual wield you will split your dice pool between the two weapons but it only uses one simple action. I'm not sure but I think you will suffer massive recoil negatives. You have modded these things into SMGs, aside from it being cool, the crunch might work out better with actual SMG's that have built in RC values instead of pistols at that point.

Oh and you might want to drop those smartlinks. They are unusable when dual wielding just like laser sights. (Which is really silly if you ask me.)

Beyond all that the biggest problem with this approach is the extremely short range of pistols. Your are going to be eating negatives doing anything further out then 5 metres. If there is a range extending mods that would be well worth getting over those smartlinks.

The Warhawk is sexy but they are for historical reenactments these days. I'd bet Bull even has one

Using one simple action each for each weapon is an alternative method for dual wielding as a means to diminish recoil problems - and in that case, smartlinks can be used. And Thunderbolts have built in omni-stacking RC, like an Ares Alpha.

So what you'd equip a guy with two pistols & ambidextrous to effectively double your ammo capacity? I guess that would appeal to people fluff wise.

The Thunderbolt having a free -2rc is pretty cool, no wonder my players like them. Once the Star get the boot I'll wager they all try to buy one.

Technically speaking, red dot sights from Gun Heaven provide the +1 bonus while dual wielding, since the rules specifically only include laser sights and smart links.

Your numbers are bothering me a little bit though. Firstly - can pistols mount underbarrel weights? Second - what stock? Third - Why personalized grips over electronic firing, especially if you are silencing it. You've also modded them for FA, but isn't FA always a complex action? You could fire both of them as a complex action with FA, but then you'd subtract all uncompensated recoil from both dice pools. Times like these when cyber forearms with gyromounts come in really handy.

That's actually a pretty strong flavour point for them in Seattle - I'd imagine that when the Star got booted out, a lot of their equipment went to the grey market.

And that's pretty much the idea - rather than burning the mod slots for net zero recoil, you can make recoil irrelevant.

Hell it could even make a great Shadowrun, when the Star falls runners are called in to liberate the gear from a warehouse. Load up the good ol' bulldog to the roof and take it down to your local Ancients chapter. Of course you have to dodge the trogs go-gangers who caught wind of the delivery.

The open mod slots would definitely be a bonus for some runners and would work well with something like a warhawk/deputy which isn't gonna fire BF/FA anytime soon. My favourite thing to do is dropping that explosive mod into the skinlink. When one of my players picked up the favourite gun of a pyscopathic weapon smith boy did he have a blast.

... That was a terrible pun.

Sums up the way I intend to use those guns.


I'll try to clarify some of that (additional errors may come from me trying to handle the english language...). The modification "Underbarrel Weight" ("Arsenal", p. 153) can be integrated into pistols, unlike the auto-adjusting modification on the same page or the external accessory (as pistols do not have an underbarrel slot for accessories).

The modification "Folding Stock" ("Arsenal2; p. 151f). One version of this mod can be powered, so unfolding the stock becomes a free rather than a simple action. Also adds +1 recoil compensation, if I'm not mistaken.

You've got a point here. I picked personalized grips mainly for budget reasons, but you just made me reconsider things . Thanks. Good idea.
The silencers were also meant as a precaution for the really recognizable sound pattern of the guns, as mentioned in the book.

Firing a long burst requires a weapon that can fire (and is set to) FA (SR4A, p. 154). Long bursts are still simple actions, though. So, one long burst from one gun is fired with the first simple action, the second after that.

I hope I could clarify what I'm trying to achieve here. I don't intend to fire both weapons with one simple action, the dice pool splitting is just too hard for this character.

Naaah, too many slots lost.

Bye
Thanee

I don't like revolver style, except for wild west. Really, I don't see the appeal at all. Automatics are much more stylish in my eyes.

Bye
Thanee

que?
you only lost the slots in the arm for the weapon, the weapon itself has it's own mod slots again, if i remember this right

I's go with the Warhawk, more style and a few other advantages. I forget the details, but I did give one NPC a pair of these guys (along with ambedexterity). He had two smartlink systems installed in his cybereyes (House rules/gm fiat) so he could get the smarlink bonus for both pistols.

Each Pistol had the following mods:
Smartlink (1 slot)
SS to SA (1 slot)
Level 3 ceramic parts (1 slot)
Expanded Cylinder (1 slot)
Ammo skip system (1 slot)
Electronic Firing (1 slot)

Typically he carried 4 rds of ex ex, 2 rds of regular and 2 rds of gel.

Each to their own.

Every time a character of mine fires in BF mode, I hear that distinctive sound from Robocop and I picture those jars of baby-food exploding. So badass. It's indelibly etched in my gray matter...




If my character is more high-tech, I would choose the thunderbolt. If my character is more old-school or whatever, I choose the superwarhawk (Riggs vs. Murtaugh)

Right tool for the right job.

If you're hunting street scum like Robocop: Thunderbolt.

If you're hunting Drones or Cars: Super Warhawk.

Choose ammo to taste.

CanRay the right tool is always a Panther Assault Cannon!
Pistols are for when you're playing nice.

..Smartlink is firearms accessorie too, just paying cost of weapon(internal s-link) and saving 1 modification slot..
..Electronic Firing takes 2 slots, not 1..so that takes saved slot from smartlink..

The internal version IS the mod - just rewritten in SR4A to go without the modification rules.

..SR4a pg.322. firearms accessories (those do not use slots), in the box
Smartgun system,Internal, mount - ,availiibility 6r, cost Weapon cost..

Bull, is that you? When did you get a second account?

Yes, that is to which I refer. That is the mod, simply placed in a book where the mod rules do not exist so that the internal version is available without extended core.

???
some Accessessories have also Modification version(those take slots)
Accessory version takes no slots, no skill or gear needed to install
Modification version takes slot(s), may need skill, and/gear to install..

Both varieties of Smartgun require Armourer to install. And are you seriously attempting to argue that the internal smartgun doesn't take up any space?