I wanted to start this thread because the last one got hijacked.

There was a question on the wording of stacking armor in the preview #4. Can someone tell me if they fixed it.

What defenses can be added to cyberlimbs and other cyberware that can be used to help vs hackers?

Currently there is no stacking. You can wear one piece of normal armor (like an armor jacket), additional pieces do not count and you can add multiple pieces of +armor items (like a helmet), which are restricted by ( I think, not quite sure) strength. Most people will run around with an armor jacket (12) and a helm (+3) for a total of 15 + body soak dices.

SYL

How do Riggers differ in this edition? Have they become their own specialty again or is the Rigger / Decker combo still a viable build?

Can someone give us the stats on the big three of the spell list? Mana Bolt, Mana Ball, and Stun Bolt.

Also Please tell me they brought back Turn to Goo.

I am a fan of tight rules. It seems that the armor stacking rules in the preview have left a big question mark. They state that "For every 2 full points by which the bonus exceeds the character’s Strength, the character suffers a –1 penalty to Agility and Reaction". However the passage prior to that states "The maximum bonus a character receive from these items is limited to their Strength attribute". This makes +armor items limited to the Strength attribute with no trade off for exceeding it. This may be a proofreading oversight that was fixed in the final printing. Was it?

A few questions spring to mind.

Did Grounding come back as a counterbalance to focus abuse?

Are there any mechanical drawbacks to the use of "sniper rifles" as conventional battle rifles?

Is the Ares Alpha still the "right answer" when it comes to an assault rifle?

Riggers are a thing again. I don't know of any combo that isn't viable except for magician/technomancer.

And now the thread gets hijacked with a discussion of concept combos. =i)

So armor is restricted by strength now? Or there is no restriction as long as you wear only a single piece?


In either scenario, does Body do anything now other than provide base damage resistance dice? If I can have a BOD 1 character with 15+ armor, chances are I will unless there's something else Body provides that hasn't been mentioned.

If technomancer/something combos are a viable option right out of gate, then thats pretty cool change.
I quess i have the first character types i have to try and make ones the book is out right there

No restriction other then you can't wear more then one piece of armor, then armor addition items(like helmets and shields) are limited to your strength

More damage boxes, those are quite usefull.

Yep, similar to SR4A.

Is it 1 box per body now, or still only 1/2?

Because at 1/2, it might be worth bumping up to 2, to get the 9th box. Spending 2 more points to get 4? Not so much. Reaction or Intuition will be much better because they provide the same level of protection, plus other secondary benefits (going earlier/more often, higher chance of outright avoiding an attack, and some useful linked skills). Even at 1 box per body, it might not be worth picking it up compared to that.

Body was useful in SR4 because 1 body = 3 damage resistance dice, which was a huge deal for survivability, since it provided three times as many resistance dice as the other relevant stats. Take that away? Body may as well not even exist.

What kind of Skill Groups are we seeing? Same as in 4th, different ones?

And for the skills, are there any major changes to the skills that are there? Ones that have been added or removed?

Its 8 + ½ body (rounded up), so Body 1 or 2 gives you 9 damage boxes, you need to up it to 3 to get the extra damage box

For Magic there are Enchanting, Artificing and Ritual Spellcasting which actually do things you would use in game.

They did things you would use in-game in SR4A, too. *shrug*

the short answer is No it is not limited by Strength. There is now Armor and +armor (helmets, riot shields, etc.) +Armor items are limited by Str.

All I have seen so far of the 3 is Manabolt from the quick start.
Type M, Range LOS, Damage P
Damage equal to net hits, resisted by Willpower, no other Damage resistance tests allowed.
Drain F-2


For the Indirect damage types we see Clout.
Type P , Range LOS, Damage S,
Inflicts Stun Damage equal to Magic Rating plus Net hits, Resisted by Reaction & Intuition, remaining damage resisted by Body & Armor,
Drain F-2

the other 3 spells were:

Armor
Provides armor points equal to hits on spellcasting test
Drain F

Heal
Heals Boxes of Physical damage equal to hits on spellcasting test
Drain F-4 ( A bit of a surprise as used to be DV(F) -2 so healing is actually a little easier)

Increase reflexes
Add +1 to Initiative and +1 Initiative Dice for every two hits, max 4 points and 4 dice
Drain F-1 (5 Drain for +3 Init , +3 Init dice is not too bad)

So strength indirectly provides armor.

Body is a useless stat that will never go above one for an optimizer.


Good to know these things.

If im not mistaken Body is part of the physical limits calculation.
Also unless you have specific pieces of gear on, resisting toxins is body only test(unless thats for some reason changed in SR5)

Strength factors in twice, and provides bonus armor and is linked to a few skills. If you care about physical limits, that's where you'll boost, not Body.



Extremely niche concern, not worth spending attribute points on when every other attribute provides so much better benefits. Especially when the countermeasure is just making sure you have those specific pieces of gear.

This is pretty good. Tossing an F5 Manabolt for 3 drain and probably 3-4 actual damage isn't bad. I imagine most people will be tossing more than 9 Drain resist dice.

I'd like to see what using Edge does to the Direct spells, though. Since Edge nominally removes regular limits, would you then want to cast at Force 1 with Edge and still get all your net hits?



Magic rating damage or Force? That is, do you cast at Force 3 for 3 hits but still do Magic +3 damage? Or would it be 3 +3 damage because of the Force? If it's Magic +hits that makes Mages pretty spiffy, since you'd be tossing out 9 damage on a Force 3, Drain 1 spell.

Force is supposed to act as AP as well, right?



Bitchin'. Still the question about Edge lifting the cap (cast at Force 1, still get all the net hits?).



Much easier to heal, probably a good thing. Target Essence doesn't get in the way? Are sustained-permanent rules still in place?



Not bad. F8 and 8 hits to get the max bonus.

Compared to SR3 and 4? Pretty bad. More then ever it seems to be hackerrun 2075.

SYL

Body also determines how many overflow boxes you have and how long you bleed out before death...

Did the ghoul virus get changed into a form that no longer requires GM fiat to avoid ending all of humanity?

Not in the core, but it's being worked on.

Do you mean that

a) the ghoul virus is unchanged from SR4A und such we are still payling resident run with a ghoul hyperinfection (and it will be changed in an errata document)?

or

b) there is no rules for ghul infection and they will come later, so only fluff is in the basic book?

SYL

Option B.

Pretty darn sure Infected aren't going to be in the core book...

Also, put my name up there on wondering what are the differences between magic traditions.

What are the skill level caps in Character Generation?

It looks like Skill Groups can be raised above 5 out the gate? Is the old 'one skill at 6 or two skills at 5' in effect, with an extension offered to skill-groups?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Skill cap at chargen is 6 (7 with Aptitude). Can go up to 12 (13 with Aptitude).

I wonder how many times that questioned can be asked before somebody who bought the rule book actually finds it worth answering?

Please?

Not of this world--Akin to SR4. Hermetic and Shamanic are detailed as always

...but no actual in-game mechanics to reflect the differences?

Outside of different Drain Attributes and different spirit loadouts?

Thank you, sir. Just to be clear, a character may have as many skills at 6 out the gate as their little heart desires?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Well you can 'Push the Limit' (pg 56 from the preview peek) and get your Edge rating added to the dice pool AND have the Rule of 6 in play, so any 6 rolled is a hit plus you reroll to try for another. If called before the roll all the dice get the RO6 while if done after its just Edge dice from Rating. This can throw a real wild card as you might just get a few extra hits or if the dice roll hot it could be devastating as using edge this way does remove any limit.

Visibility modifiers like environment and cover look like they still can affect dice pools even for direct mana spells. Which is kind of silly in some ways, but that is a debate for another day.

The quickstart stated Magic rating plus net hits. The Force chosen for the casting acts as a Limit on the number of net hits you get to keep at the end, so throwing a force 1 spell may not always be the best choice as you wont really be able to beef it up with hits (limit one net hit for 1 Force), but you will still have the minimum of Magic rating plus the 1 net hit for damage at least. Unless of course you do burn an edge and bypass the limit, but if your going to use edge would you waste it on a force 1? Depends on situation I guess. Nothing in the quickstart about Force being AP, but I would imagine it should remain in place or the indirects take a major hit, especially with the increased armor values.

I think they went with the Magic plus Net hits for damage so as to put some curb on Overcasting. For example if your Magic 5 and you decide to cut loose by going Force 10 (double your magic max) then your base damage is still Magic rating but the limit on net hits goes up. And of course more should get through on the indirect if the Force = AP still applies anyway.

So get your initiation on as early as possible and work that Magic.



Looks like it.



It didn't say anything specific to target's essence, but again it was the quickstart so they may have skipped over for brevity. Can't see them removing the essence reduction as it would spoil the flavour, but will have to see. Duration was Permanent so still has to be sustained for a time to 'lock' it in, but no specifics as to the final time, so don't know if it is still x2 Force or not in combat turns.



Yep, expect sustaining foci to be in high demand.
If the costs remain the same, 16 Karma should cover the bonding costs for that Force 8 Sustaining Foci.

And points values allow, yup.

My question for what's in the book; Is there still a page(s) describing what each skill level represents? Like 1 rank is Novice, 3 is base line professional, etc.
This has always been one of my most used pages when creating NPC's and am VERY curious how the descriptions have changed with the increase to maximum skill level.

Possible to even post it up? Not like it's actual in game mechanics or anything?

never mind

Yes, there is.

so, how is rank 1 to 12 described? Simply doubled everything (1, 2, 3 etc become 1-2, 3-4 etc)?

Damage should be Force plus net hits.


Also gives you a glowing field of magical energy.


Its an Essence spell, so it's more difficult to cast against low-essence characters. Has to be sustainde to be permanent. Each hit used to decrease the sustaining time saves 1 combat turn.

Each hits gives +1 Initiative, each 2 hits gives +1 Initiative die (Max +4D6).

The upper ranks were just to better represent the more experienced character.

If you were a 5 skill with a gun before you would still be a 5 skill now I would imagine. They just raised the ceiling so to speak.

Expect the legendary characters to be rewritten to reflect these so Fastjack would be the 11 or 12 in decking matters.

There is no restriction on Edge use against magaic tests, so you could do that.


Damage is equal to Force + net hits, -Force AP.


Should be able to do that.


Health spells are more difficult to use on Low essence characters. Still have to sustain before they become permanent.


F8 and 8 hits would give you +8 Initiative and +4D6. I'm not 100% sure but I think 7 hits would also give you +4D6.

Quick query, is this confirmed from the new rulebook as was just listing from the quickstart so would be good to know for certain?


Pros: Shiny. Cons: tends to draw attention. Use on the Sammy, make them think he is a mystic adept.


Assumed this would be the way, but again they really skimped on details in the quickstart


Again the quickstart just made it sound like 2 hits for both bonuses, but probably down to punctuation or lack thereof.

Sweet. Thanks Patrick.

In SR3, and it appears in SR5 as well, there comes a balancing point where you can spend X amount of karma to get one more die in your hyperspecialty (say from skill 11 to 12) or you could raise several lower level skills.

Patrick--Do you know who did the art for your chapter opening?

I do not, and I can't find a sig anywhere. I'll ask Brent ASAP.

While it would be nice if it was Force + net hits, can you confirm if this is the case from the rulebook as the quickstart is listing Magic + net hits.

I am hoping it was just an error in the quickstart so if anyone snagged the Origins special edition please spill

Don't you always cast spells at a Force equal to your Magic in the Quick Start Rules?

According to our intrepid Art Director, that artist is a gentleman named Gordon Bennetto. He debuted as an SR artist in Dirty Tricks, and has some work in Storm Front as well. He also did the character illo for the gunslinger adept.

He rocks on toast as far as I'm concerned.