Since I neither own semi-automatic pistols nor have extensive experience firing them (the only guns I ever fired were shotguns), I have a question: Suppose someone fires a semi-automatic pistol, and somebody else grabs the pistol while it is being fired (plausibility aside). What kinds of injuries are to be expected? I would expect some cutting/tearing from the slide and medium burns from exhaust and/or barrel, and of course a possible hit by the bullet exiting the barrel, is that correct?

My understanding is that the slide goes back with pretty much all the force of the round leaving the chamber - you'd risk losing a chunk of your hand, or so I'm told.

It would depend on the gun.

Some have the whole top of the gun slide back and grabbing that would be similar to grabbing the bullet in some ways.

Others though have the slide internally with only the ejection/gas port exposed, like the Ingram machine pistol. There you could grab the body of the guy without having any real abrasion, heat though could be an issue depending on how many rounds had been recently fired before the attempted grab.

(Note to self: Have weaponsmith fashion some pop out spikes for body of gun like that Blade guy uses on his sword handle..)

Depends on the model of the gun, and whether the character is grabbing it with a natural hand or a cyberhand.

If it's a weapon where the whole top slides, you could get some pretty nasty lacerations from the slide, some burns from the spent shell trying to eject into your palm (if using cased ammo,) or even have your hand shot through by the bullet (if you're really unlucky.) On the other hand, if the weapon is cased, this is a great way to completely jam the thing up, forcing the other guy to spend an action clearing the weapon, even if you don't manage to gain and maintain control of the weapon.

It has been said already, but the slide on a pistol is going to ram backwards with all the energy of the round. If the gun uses caseless ammo, you probably dont have to worry about getting your fingers removed by exhaust gases, but that slide is still going backwards. Not all pistols have a function where the entire top half of the gun slides though, the Desert Eagle for example.
With longarms, this is MUCH safer to do, and if youre at the range where it could be done, it'd probably save your life. Like this guy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ew-Orleans.html

So... for the sake of Shadowrun, would you hazard it's a 1-3 dmg dice soak, with Cyberhands/arms, Gloves, Magic Armor, and Body only applying to the soak?

I'd say a couple of P. Its enough to remove fingers if you're gripping hard enough. Revolvers have been known to do the same.

True, but Shadowrun does have some basis in the Cinematic, even at its grittiest. The average schmuck might not be able to do this, but it's thematically appropriate for your cybered-out samurai or highly-enchanted adept to pull off such a feat, and the dmg soak means they'd STILL be saying "Ouch!" afterwards (under their breath, of course, so their teammates don't realize how stupid it was or how badass the person who did it is not).

Indeed. Just make it like 2 or 3P of soakable damage. Cyberhand/arm armor applies.

If he is really good and can flip the release catch as it kicks back one could take off the slide entirely to send into the chest of the shooter utilizing the added boost, but that would be bordering on stupid rolls to do, but if you want cinematic......

As a former firearms instructor (NRA trained for a Boy Scout Camp) I can say the following: Anything with a slide that automatically ejects casings will have an exhaust port other than the barrel. Bolt action rifles and other guns that do not eject the casing shouldn't have that issue.
The hammer, particularly on revolvers, can and does mess up the webbing of peoples hands.
Guns do get very hot and I've seen kids burn themselves after grabbing the barrel of a shotgun after several shots.
In theory if you grab the gun before the first shot goes off it won't be hot and you only have to worry about the hammer/slide if you can keep the firing pin from triggering, far more plausible with a revolver given the exposed hammer than an automatic that tend to keep things internal.
If you do manage to jam an automatic with cased rounds great but if you get your skin torn by hammer of the revolver all he has to do to clear the jam is pull the trigger again.

It might be cinematic, but some pistols slides only come off by moving to the front not the rear (For example, my Smith & Wessen Sigma in .40S&W). And in even a controlled situation, such as field stripping to clean it, I once had the slide assembly rocket right off the front of the gun from the power of just the spring. Some pistols also only have slides that come off when you knock a tiny little pin out to the left or right with a pin punch, a hammer, and a couple of good hard whacks (Hi Point 9x19mm).

I'd also point out that with an improper grip on some semi-autos, the slide can "bite" the webbing between your thumb and pointer finger causeing a pretty bleedy cut. With revolvers, you also have to keep your fingers away from the little gap between the front of the cylinder and the frame as hot gasses do escape out from there, and can cause burns. Just as a point of interest, it's that gap between the cylinder and the frame that prevents most revolvers from being silenced. And honestly, the only revolver I know that can be silenced is the Nagant, but there's probably a small handful of others.

Even a few rounds make the barrel pretty darn hot. I have given myself some minor burns when passing my rifle off to a buddy to take a turn and forgetting about just how hot it gets.

And there are some "hammerless" revolver designs out there, but it's more accurate to say they have concealed hammers that operate inside the frame of the gun. They're typically designed for concealed carry and so that a hammer doesn't get caught on a pants leg as you're trying to pull it out. See the Smith & Wessen Model 642 for an example.

Eric

Also being the 6th world electronic firing might remove "hamerbite." I don't know it it exists in the real world but it does in SR.

Not every gun has electronic firing, though. Actually, most of them don't, they just have a hammer that can be actuated electronically.

.......no, not by a longshot actually.

It would suck, yes, but likely not to the point of what I'd consider meaningful Shadowrun-scale combat damage (aside from maybe 1 point?). It's uncomfortable, and might even cause some bleeding, but it's not something I'd consider major damage. The hard part is, y'know, grabbing the gun and not getting shot by it and stuff, not surviving the grab itself.

Some vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_qgymEefbM...un-defense.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QLaWL2PtNQ...un-defense.html

I'm well aware of the limits of my knowledge of firearms - hence the "or so I'm told"; it was suggested at a local firing range that having your hand high enough on the grip for the slide to catch it could result in a pretty serious injury (possibly exaggerated to encourage safe handling). In general, though, if you're close enough for that a safer way to control the weapon is to for the shooter's hands or arms.

Also, with a semi-automatic sidearm, if there is no block or compensator on the front, you can jam your palm against it to prevent it from firing. I don't actually recommend this in a firefight of any sort, unless you're going to make some crazy HtH streetsam with tough (and armored) cyberarms.

Alright, I'm no expert but I've got a decent understanding.

1) The slide doesn't move backward with all the force of the bullet, as a lot of energy is transferred to the body of the gun via friction and (primarily) the spring that resets the slide. Once the slide starts moving, some of the force (gas) escapes through the ejection port as well.

2) Guns are hot, but won't melt your hand. Pain and possible blistering if you don't let it go quickly.

3) A few guns have a "design feature" that you can one-hand dismantle the gun by grabbing the slide, forcing it back, and popping the teardown lever on the side with a finger, then yanking the slide off the front. It's a classic film move, but many guns don't follow this design. Also I think you have to hit the magazine release in the process because it won't tear down while there's a magazine in place. If you try this with many guns (M1911A1, CZ75B, many others) it is literally impossible to do -- these guns have a metal pin that requires the slide to be partway back before it can be removed, generally requiring quite a bit of force (often with an expended shell casing or some other tool) on a very small bit that sticks out the other side. Once that's removed completely you can pull the slide off. You're not doing it one-handed.

4) Guns without a dovetail on the back to protect the hand from the slide (see: Glock) exist, and I've never heard of anyone losing an appendage to that design. If the slide runs across your hand, you get what they call "railroad tracks" which are apparently rather painful. I can see breaking an errant finger as a plausible outcome, but unlikely if you're grabbing from the front (if you're holding the gun to fire it and you get in the way of the slide, your fingers would bend the wrong way).

That all said, I'd say I'd agree with whoever said "a few points of soakable damage" but I'd call it Stun and not Physical. Any sort of shooter's gloves would probably mitigate that.

I wouldn't recommend this ever.

Mind you, we're dealing with a situation noone would reccomend getting into. But, again, manipulating the shooter is smarter than manipulating the weapon.

In real life, absolutely not. I'm pretty sure I saw it in an anime once, though, and hell, Shadowrun's almost as unrealistic.

If a player decided to do that, however, I'd look at the picture of the weapon and decide whether that would work or not. Then I'd let them roll an appropriate Knowledge skill to determine whether or not their character knows if it's a viable (if insane) means of disabling someone's gun for a pass. Then I'd let them try the insane. Hell, it's pretty fucking cinematically awesome.

Screw it up, though, and you're taking a lot of hurt. Hope to hell that hand, preferably the whole arm, is cyber.

1. Extremely unlikely to lose any appendages.
2. Likely to lose some skin depending on where you grab it.
3. Burns are also unlikely.
4. Pushing back on the front of the barrel is not a wise thing to do with any firearm, however forcing the slide out of charge will disengage the firing pin on almost any semi automatic pistol and is often a goal with some disarming techniques.
5. One handed combat disassembly is a fantasy, thanks a lot Lethal Weapon 4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVtXPIjM3jQ

Gloves, this is why you wear gloves.

Pornomancer at the 2:50 mark.

It's a 2:27 video...?

Sorry, slip of the finger. 1:50

<edit> it now links me to a totally different video. Bizarre.

I was just worried I'd miss something awesome!

I have no idea what I watched when I first clicked that link. The video I see now is actually awesome as opposed to... well, something that looked out of the 80s for self defense training.

My thoughts exactly.
@Method
I guess there are always two ways of settling a discussion if something is possible.
1. Through extensive theoretical analysis
2. Watch a video of russians just doing it.

Yep.

A close friend of mine (ex-USMC, currently a cop and firearm instructor) recently demonstrated some similar things for me. For example, you can actually stop the slide on certain pistols (he was using a suppressed Glock) from cycling with your thumb pressed against the back of the slide. If you press firmly and prevent the slide from starting to move it makes a suppressed firearm a little more quite (provided you only intend to fire a single round).

It was kinda cool, but unless you're James Bond or some kind of elite assassin it doesn't seem practical enough to warrant the risk of breaking your thumb. And probably not something I would try with just any gun.

@Method

Or if you need to have your range time at 1 o'clock on sundays.