All my 2nd. edition source books. Are they still OK to use with the 3rd. edition rules?

Topper

The sourcebooks, absolutely. The books with rules and stats [Grimoire, Awakenings, Street Samurai Catalog, Virtual Realities, Fields of Fires, Rigger 2] have been updated to SR3 in various books [Cannon Companion, Man and Machine, Matrix, Rigger 3 Revised] but most other books can be easily converted on the fly.

Well, I have these:

Cybertechnology
Fields of fire
Street Samurai catalog
Rigger Black book
The Grimoire
Shadowtech

Masterminding my first game at the moment, so just checking if I can use them.

Topper

You can, but some of the stats and rules have changed with 3rd edition. But, if you don't /know/ how they changed in 3rd edition, and neither do your players, it won't kill any of you.

Keep rigger for the pictures, otherwise grab the revised 3rd ed book.

Matrix rules are sooooo different in 3rd as opposed to 2nd. A used copy of VR 2.0 can get you by, but I'd recommend Matrix (heck, if you can, order it from Fanpro, only € 14 or so with shipping charges).

MitS is a great book, minus the shadowtalk.

Don

The order I'd pick up the updated books would likely be Man and Machine (updates the cyber, bioware, chemicals, nanotech, and surgery rules), Magic in the Shadows (updates initiation, metamagic, spells), Cannon Companion (updates a lot of weapons and adds martial arts -- which I'm not sure existed in previous editions), and Rigger 3 (not as important since you probably don't use a whole lot of rigger rules).

The biggest changes are probably presented in Man and Machine and Magic in the Shadows, so they're probably worth upgrading to in short order. Most of the flavor text and descriptions are still valid and better than their 3e counterparts, if for no other reason than 3e is more compressed (4 books instead of 6).

Well, there´s also the thing with money. Kinda need that to purchase books. Just bought the core rulebook and the GM screen so funds run a little low at the moment. I don´t think it would be a good idea to buy source books before I get the basic rules down first. Struggling with the Magic section at the moment, and after that I´ll start reading on The Matrix....... Phew!!!

In Shadowtech sourcebook 2nd, edition, I read about Bioware. How come the core rule book (3rd. edition) doesn´t mention anything about that??

Topper

A cynical guy would say that by putting all Bioware in the M&M book, they sell more M&M books. And by putting Initiation in the MitS book, they sell more MitS books.

A more realistic guy would say they can only put so much stuff in the main book, and they did a good job with that. The game is very workable without the extras. They reduced 10 to 14 books from 2nd edition down to just 4 or 5 in third.

True, true. Every game company does that, and it makes a lot of sense (also, the core rulebook would be huge if everything got put in with all of the extra rules... bioware has a couple of pages dedicated to just the special drawbacks for it).

I mention the books as future upgrades. Get the basics down first, and then move up in the world as time goes on. You can make good characters out of the material presented in just the core rulebook and give players a chance to upgrade with the stuff in other books as you (and/or they) aquire them.

In some places, it does feel like you're only getting part of the rules (Matrix and rigger rules are kind of like that), so if you've got players really interested in those areas, I suggest convincing them to get the books for the relevant sections and let you borrow them This is particularly good for stuff like Man and Machine or Cannon Companion where you already know what most of the stuff is from previous editions (ie, books you already have), just not how it works in 3rd edition.

Well, I see we´ve weaved these topics together now so let me just put this in:

http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=3924

Topper

We used all the old 2nd Edition stuff back after 3rd Edition was released until the updated books were released and we were able to get them.

I wouldn't worry about it and I'd use them if you want access to the gear and such there. Most of the differences aren't a huge deal and it'll give you more stuff to work with.

We still use a lot of the old 2nd Edition books, although we use updated rules and such where applicable.

The numbers don't match exactly but the pictures are better, especially in Fields of Fire, as pointed out above the Decking stuff is right OUT. and Rigger 2 is lousy. It's like the worst produce ever put out for SR. poorly edited and sloppy. It's not even worth it for the pics because the text is such a horror.

The location stuff is fine, as is pretty much any color comentary.

The reason they put bioware/additional cyberware in M&M and initiation in MitS is that the basic rules are complex enough as it is for a new player to learn. Sometimes we vets of Shadowrun can forget that, for most new players, a lot of the stuff in SR is completely different from what they're used to. If an RPGer hasn't played Shadowrun by now, either they're not interested (therefore wouldn't be a new player) or they're new to RPGing in general or have limited experience with alternate games. Things like dice pools, choice-based character creation, the mechanics of combat, etc. are very different from D20 games (the standard these days for newer gamers) and take a while to get used to, and that's not even counting decking, rigging, totems, conjuring, and the setting. If they put anymore in, it'd be far too confusing for a new player.

Plus, the book'd be about 500 pages instead of about 350. You think the binding on those books are bad NOW...

The 2nd Ed books are still usable for a lot of things, but definately upgrade when you can. The order is up to you depending on your style of game. Not magic-heavy? Don't need MitS right away. Not Matrix-heavy? Don't need M&M right away. A LOT of stats have been changed, but I'd keep those books around for the shadowtalk and other background stuff as the 3rd Ed books are pure rules and stats.

The Abstruse One

we don't even allow pc deckers anymore, it just got too much.