How fast is too fast for a fully customized engine to pull a car along? with customization and turbocharging i can easily pull a sedan up to 300mph

is this munchy?

It's not so much munchy as it is pointless. Anything over 150mph is really a waste, and honestly I wouldn't go out of my way to top the 100-120mph range outside of a sports car or muscle car (and only then 'cause it fits the concept fo the vehicle). Handling and Acceleration are way more useful and important for a ground vehicle.

At least that's still a realistic speed for a 4-wheeled automobile using real-world physics. Unlike the 1.5mach+ cars you sometimes see around here.

i wouldn't call it a waste. as i recall, you impose a +1 TN for every 10 mpt faster your are than your opponent, on manual gunnery tests, or something like that.

So where exactly are you going to be able to regularly blaze around at 300mph in a city? They rarely hit those speeds on a clear, open race track.

Anywhere, since AFAIK the rules for vehicle combat do not penalize you for speed -- only for going beyond your speed limit. So AFAIK, rigging a car with a Speed of 300m/CT you get no additional penalties for moving at 300m/CT instead of 30m/CT, even in a city center.

If there are rules that penalize you for moving at certain speeds in certain areas, where might I locate them?

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that using common sense while playing a character is right out around here. Just because the rules allow you to do something, obviously, it's your duty to do it. <thumbs up>

If you're making sedans that have top speeds over 300mph, then yes it is.

It's not as if this is a case of some sort of übermunchkination. It's not exactly a loophole in the rules that allow you to be supermegapowerful. And obviously most GMs will give you huge TN modifiers for driving 300mph in an inner city area -- or just about anywhere.

But being capable of driving at 200mph without the +4 TN might come in handy more often.

i use sedan for muscle cars because sportscars are too small IMHO

i meant muscle car but said sedan because of the chassis i used

i feel that i would never go 300mph, but i like to know i could if need be

Top speed is way less important than acceleration. Why do you think most drag racers don't brag about top speed and brag on their 1/4 mile speed? When a guy says he's running 13 that means from a dead stop he can goa 1/4 mile in 13 seconds. Most amature car racers ( you know the fast and furious kids everywhere) aim for 10 second cars which is very fast. But top speed don't mean anyhting unless y9ou have the straight space to use it effectively, ie the salt flats in Utah ect. Anyways those are my .02 worth of info. I'm more of a gun guy though so when you wantot make your car a movinf arsenal give me a call.

There is a TN penalty for high speeds in a city. The terrain modifiers. The text states that the definition of terrain difficulty is based on movement speed. A 2 lane road may be open terrain when following the speed limit, but will be restricted terrain (or worse if there is one) during rush hour as you try to go 4 times the speed limit (and the other drivers are only going twice the speed limit).

That's good, then. Although the lack of other modifiers just might allow a rigger to pull off 300mph in a city center anyway.

A tricked out rigger should be able to go 300mph downtown. That's what they're good for. But the penalties can prevent non-riggers* from doing something like that.

*Automotive specialized adepts are classified as "easier to cast heal on half-rigger wannabes" so they might be able to pull it off

Why does everyone think that just cause you are rigged makes you able to ignor the laws of physics? It just makes you have better reflexes you can't rewrite the fact that you can only go so fast while making a turn. Coefficient and friction will still be the death of anyone who thinks they can go 300+ in a city. But then again I run a pretty realistic game as far as things like that go. Sure my player could makea car that goes 300 in a city......... sure i'll let him try to get to that..... sure he'll bea red spot on the wall after about 4 seconds. But Each GM runs things their own way and thats not wrong its just not my style.

What're your odds of avoiding a pedestrian at 300 mph? Better yet, what are your chances of surviving running a red light with a semi half through it. City streets tend to have crappy visibility.

Assuming you don't have any traffic in that city center. Some guy in a hurry who decides to turn on red can really ruin your day at 300m/h.

then whats a great acceleration rating?

As high as you can crank it?

25!

the ferrarri open wheel is 21

25? Pfft. Amateur.

And don't forget your Nitrous Oxide Injectors. (Though to this day I still haven't figured out why those damn things help you brake...)

well that speed and accell is without the nitrous. thats an outside force!

accel of 25 with 3 successes is 0-60 in about 3-4 seconds by my math

On the other hand, Accel of 10 with 10 successes (Reaction 12, Defaulted), 3 times per CT amounts to 0 - 180 in less than 3 seconds.

In Acceleration in particular, don't feel too constrained by logic. You can break all the pertinent physical laws with an Accel of 10, so might as well go for a 50.

Remember, Speed is measured in meters per combat turn.

The only car capable of hitting 300 mph, the Ferrari Open Wheel Racer, isn't allowed on the roads (if pushed to the max of 1.5 times it's speed, it can attain 348ish mph).

The standard Ford Americar only gets up to 117 mph, and the Jackrabbit only gets up to 90 mph (electrical) or 100 mph (methane). Those two were chosen for there seeming ubiquity.

Outside of the Saab Dynamit (max: 280 mph), and a Westwind (max: 268), there's not much in the sprawl that gets up more then 140 mph at it's very max.

And those two have handlings of 8 at that speed. I'm sure a novahot rigger might be able to pull it off in an urban setting by throwing enough dice at the manuver, but not reliably.

Though it'd still suck to not see a red light at at any speed.

EDIT: To get mph of a vehicle:

Given: Turns are 3 seconds, 20 CT's in a minute, and 60 minutes in an hour, 1 m = 1/1000 km, 1km = 0.621371192 miles, and max speed is 1.5 times speed rating.

Vehicle's Speed*1.5*20*60/1000*0.621371192 = X mph.

Reduced down, for max speed, it's Speed*1.1184681456 = max X mph. For the more sane handling numbers the max is Speed*0.7456454304 = X mph.

Which means most sane drivers of Americars would stay under 78 mph.

two wheel drive motorcycle...the bmw from akira was made by myself for another runner (physad, of course) and will go from 0-300mph in a stock 10 seconds, without the electric nitrous.

I would probabbly add visibility modifiers for city center. tight terrain being the "where to go" and visibility being the "when".

so my (houseruled) downtown driver from austeres example would have
Tight Terrain +3, Crossing speed limit +4, limited sight distance (+4 possibly reduced by sensor test) -6 VCR 3 == TN 7

just my interpretation...

-Mike R.

Oops, Terrible Weather is +4 TN.

Like you said, adding visibility modifiers to Handling tests is purely a house rule, whereas adding Stressful Situation (and perhaps even Weather) modifiers is more a deviant interpretation of canon.

Tin, you realize that you just have to multiply Speed by 0.8 to translate it into mph, right? At least as far as the game itself is concerned.

AE, check the errata, corrected in 10th printing; the VCR's benefits are equal to the rating for driving tests, unlike every other test (like the table and example state, rather then the wording).

And any car going 200 mph in the sprawl is likely to attract the attention of Lonestar. Stressful situations and perhaps combat.

Personally, I think custom cars are rather rare given the realitively few things one can do to a car without a facility (all those handling and speed modifiers), and the fact that facilities can't be bought during char creation (availability of 14) but after vehicle markup and street index, yer looking at a cost of 800,000 just to be able to install the damn things.

And that link isn't customization. That's designing a car. How's a runner going to get his hands on that? I suppose a run specifically about the fastest car on earth and people trying to steal or sabotage it.... But I've fairly given up on SR's designing options.

However, this thread has prompted me to look for the exact mechanics with exceeding the safe speed. Um... all I'm getting is a +1 TN to a accelerate/deccelerate tests, and stress points from R3.

Coulda swore there were more modifiers for exceeding the safe speed. Can someone help me? If I'm just imagining things, then yeah, I guess it is a bit unrealistic.

You're right on the errata -- never checked it, because I didn't want anything to do with riggers when it came out. You're also right on customization, I originally read it as "custom car" not "customized engine".

I thought it was x.75 for Mph and x1.2 for Kph

I've seen 0.75x quoted somewhere, too. It makes more sense than 0.8x, because the absolute value would be rounded down to 0.7x.

Meters per Combat Turn to Kilometers per Hour is indeed 1.2x.

Oops, sorry, my memory tends to be off sometimes (I had it backwards in my head; 0.8 and 1.25). The point still stands... no real need to go through all the math when they give you a simple multiplier to use. I know it's listed under the Speed entry in SR3, though.

With low Handling and a VCR-3, speed is your most potent weapon. With a Body 5 vehicle, Level 3 Drive-By-Wire, and 12 dice you can easily reduce ramming damage by 50 points, while your opponent is stuck taking 25D without armor.

Vehicle weapon.

~J