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Voran
So I started fiddling with this idea back in 3 and 4, though never really got far with it. I was wondering if it might be balanced/plausible/worthwhile in this version. Honestly I'm not sure if this already got covered in a sourcebook/supplement, so I'd appreciate the redirect if so.

Basically I had the idea of a Flexible Adept pool for a physical adept instead of a static array of powers bought. The cost of this flexibility would be an effective 'reduction' of your points available for use at 1 time. You could choose to have static/permanent choices mixed with your flexible pool. In concept, its like the Legion of Superheroes Ultra Boy, who has kryptonian array of abilities but only like 1 at a time.

I'm not sure what would be the best way to manage it, somewhere between, 'pick a number of magic points/powerpoints' you wish to direct to the pool and halve it, giving you the number of pp you have floating to use for powers at any given time. So like 2 points means you have 1 PP of 'whatever' that you can spend as you will to manifest whatever abilities up to the cost as if you bought it. Probably something of Karma expenditure to 'learn' a new ability to add to the rotation, so you don't immediately get access to all Adept powers.

So at 3 pts you get 1.5, 4 you get 2, etc. You could dump all 6 of your initial points into a variable pool of 3, or something. So in comparison to a static adept, at baseline you'd not be able to buy boosted reflexes (magic) rating 3, since that costs 3.5 points...and you only have '3'.

Too much? Not useful enough? Too much of a pain? Thoughts?
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 29 2013, 07:04 PM) *
So I started fiddling with this idea back in 3 and 4, though never really got far with it. I was wondering if it might be balanced/plausible/worthwhile in this version. Honestly I'm not sure if this already got covered in a sourcebook/supplement, so I'd appreciate the redirect if so.
<snip>
Too much? Not useful enough? Too much of a pain? Thoughts?

I like it! It probably wouldn't be a "main-stream" archetype or whatever, but I could see some players wanting to play this kind of PC.

One thought, allowing the floating pool to be ANY power might be too useful. Somehow you'd need to limit the pool of available powers to choose from. Pool is limited to (MAG) number of powers to choose from, with the dedicated PP able to be used on any power in the pool (at double the cost)?

Also, maybe specify that it's a [Complex] Action to choose a different power to spend PP on at any given time. So day-to-day stuff is fine, but in the middle of combat it's not super effective to keep changing your powers around...
Makki
actually it's a cool idea. My initial thoughts formulated the following:

OPTIONAL RULE:
Flexible Powerpoints
Instead of being stuck with their chosen powers, adepts may choose to allocate some of their magic for flexible powerpoints.
The adept chooses a number of powerpoints of which they do not buy powers as usually. Instead they may choose two buy
powers at three times their normal cost with the benefit of exchanging these power(s) for others as needed. Loosing a power
and learning a new one is a strenuous process and takes a number of combat turns equal to the number of powers switched.
Chance359
back in second edition someone on the forums of that time posted of the idea of the "physical master", using priority A as a physical adept instead of B. Basically the adept gets magic rating x 2 for the purpose of buying powers. They have to make a Magic test to clear their aura of their current powers, then another magic test to add their new powers. I think the rate of change was 1 point per hour/by success.

Jaid
own half a dozen qi focuses. activate one at a time.

not sure if this would actually work, mind you. but if it does, you could make your concept right now...
thorya
Hmmm. . . A magical character that can have some adept powers permanently, but also has the option of turning on nearly any other power whenever he wants. This seems somewhat familiar for some reason, like I have seen a character that can do this, but not quite. Oh right, got it. I didn't make the connection because the thing I'm thinking of has all these other awesome abilities on top of magical flexibility and adept powers. It's called a mystic adept. It can pick a full 6 pp of permanent adept abilities and then has the flexibility of mimicing a lot of the rest with spells.

More seriously, I think it's an interesting idea and probably fairly balanced. Definitely should require some sort of action to use, otherwise you'll have people going from boosted reaction to mystic armor in the same attack to get double bonus or other shenanigans. Might want to veto certain powers, like skill boosts. Unless you want to give the adept free dice on every roll.
phlapjack77
QUOTE (thorya @ Jul 31 2013, 11:26 AM) *
Might want to veto certain powers, like skill boosts. Unless you want to give the adept free dice on every roll.
I think this would still work - kinda like a magical version of skillwires. Maybe make the skill/att boosts more expensive when picking them for flexibility (you still have to pick the exact skill or att that is boosted), and also make sure like you said that changing out powers takes some meaningful amount of time. Then you could even introduce (advanced?) metagmagics that lets the adept change powers in less time...
Maelstrome
Are you familiar with infusion from 3rd edition? It allows a centering test to gain temporary power points. There is also the infusion focus that stores and adept power.
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Maelstrome @ Jul 31 2013, 12:20 PM) *
Are you familiar with infusion from 3rd edition? It allows a centering test to gain temporary power points. There is also the infusion focus that stores and adept power.
Infusion's also in 4th, and it's pretty terrible.
Makki
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jul 31 2013, 07:06 AM) *
Infusion's also in 4th, and it's pretty terrible.

well, to be fair, what's terrible is what the writer wrote and thought would be reasoable crunch. It's just the impractically balanced drain...
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Makki @ Jul 31 2013, 01:13 PM) *
well, to be fair, what's terrible is what the writer wrote and thought would be reasoable crunch. It's just the impractically balanced drain...
I saw 3 things wrong - the impractical drain, the burning-out-of-powers afterwards (it's an advanced metamagic for christs sake, why the huge downside?), and the gem of it all is the dickish advice to the gm "not to tell the player which powers have burned out until the player tries to use the power".

But infusion as a concept...sure I guess. Temporarily boost your adept powers with magic that might make you a little tired afterwards...
Shinobi Killfist
Now I hate them and they are banned from my games in 5e but a mystake adept might work. Have a core set of phys adept abilities and use spells with focused concentration and sustaining focuses with maybe some touch attack spells to reflect ki attacks for your array of powers.
Voran
Ooh magical skillwires, heh thanks that's giving me a clearer image to work with. My overall thought is balancing its flexibility by the idea that you end up with less abilities you can use at any given time in comparison to the adept that bought things through the conventional way. If you've got a magic rating of 6, and have spent say, all 6 on the flexible pool, when using it as an active pool you get 3 PP to play with, in whatever abilities you have. Bought perhaps like learning new spells?

Then to slot them (even possible on the fly) you allocate the 3 PP you have how you like. Maybe further limited by instead of magic, your PP rating (3 in this case) limits how many levels in whatever you want you can activate. So, you can buy Danger Sense, which is .25 PP per level. Under Magic 6, you'd typically be able to buy (if im not mistaken)6 levels in that ability if so desired which would cost you 1.5 PP total? In this case, your flexible pool is 3, so you can only buy 3 levels, costing .75 PP if you do so. Astral perception would be the same , since its only got the 1 rank and cost the full 1 PP.

You'd also never be able to afford higher than rating 2 Improved Reflexes since rating 3 reflexes cost more than your pool has access to (3.5 PP). You'd have to initiate and get another PP before that is possible.

edit:

Maybe swap out one factor as a simple action, full 'swap' as a complex action? But you can't benefit from swapping in enhanced reflexes until the next new combat initiative check. So if you're running a 'non-combat array' and get into a fight, you can switch it to a combat one, but chances are that means you start combat with a lesser # of passes and spend that 1st round of combat swapping to combat array. Next new combat round (if you're still alive after all the high init guys go) you can join the high init guys with your now active reflexes.
DMiller
Here's my take on this idea.

New Adept Power (House Rule)

Power Flexibility
Cost: 1 Power Point per Rank
This power allows an Adept or Mystic Adept to have a pool of Power Points not assigned to specific powers, instead the adept selects a number of powers equal to her Magic that she can choose from paying 2 time the normal cost for the power. It takes a Complex Action to shift Power Flexibility powers around (spending a complex action can swap any number of points in powers). The chosen powers are available to the adept until they are changed. Any powers that require definition, for example Improved Sense or Improved Ability, must be defined in the power list for the power.

Example:
Andy the Adept has a Magic Score of 6, thus he has 6 Power Points. He opts for the following Powers:
Improved Reflexes Level 1 (1.5 PP)
Traceless Walk (1 PP)
Improved Sense (Thermographic Vision) (0.25 PP)
Improved Sense (Sound Dampening) (0.25 PP)
Power Flexibility Rank 3 (3 PP)
- Astral Perception (2 PP)
- Combat Sense (1 PP/rank)
- Improved Ability (Blades) (1 PP/rank)
- Light Body (0.5 PP/rank)
- Mystic Armor (1 PP/rank)
- Pain Resistance (1 PP/rank)

Andy now always has the powers he paid up front for, and can pick and choose what powers he wants from the Power Flexibility pool by spending his 3 available power points on the listed powers. He only has 6 powers to choose from because he has a Magic of 6, when he increases his Magic attribute he can add another power to the list even if he doesnít add any more points to the pool for the power. Note all the listed Power Flexibility powers have had their cost doubled to make it easier to choose what Andy needs at any given time.

So in our example Andy can choose any combination of powers from the pool that add up to 3 PP as that is how many ranks of Power Flexibility Andy has.


Voran
Hm, I see what you mean. Yeah, doubling the cost of the 'pool powers' might make the math a little easier and have the same intended limiting effect.

The question becomes, if we use that setup, what powers are 'more efficient' to buy as permanent vs flexible? Like, is astral perception worth doubling in the flexible, or buying for the 1 in the permanent? Enhanced reflexes is probably better to buy permanent too, since the costs for rank 3 in flexible would be...7 points smile.gif
phlapjack77
QUOTE (DMiller @ Jul 31 2013, 02:50 PM) *
Here's my take on this idea.

New Adept Power (House Rule)
<snip good stuff>

This is exactly how I saw the house rule working too.

QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2013, 03:40 PM) *
The question becomes, if we use that setup, what powers are 'more efficient' to buy as permanent vs flexible? Like, is astral perception worth doubling in the flexible, or buying for the 1 in the permanent? Enhanced reflexes is probably better to buy permanent too, since the costs for rank 3 in flexible would be...7 points smile.gif

I think one consideration is you wouldn't want to have powers in the pool that you can't use at the same time but would want to. Like, your character probably would want to have killing hands + critical strike + improved ability (unarmed) active at the same time, so if those 3 are in your pool and you don't have enough points to use them all at the same time, that would be bad.

Also, any abilities that are "out of combat" abilities are probably good candidates to put in the pool, as the Complex Action to shift things around wouldn't be a big deal.
DMiller
QUOTE (Voran @ Jul 31 2013, 04:40 PM) *
Hm, I see what you mean. Yeah, doubling the cost of the 'pool powers' might make the math a little easier and have the same intended limiting effect.

The question becomes, if we use that setup, what powers are 'more efficient' to buy as permanent vs flexible? Like, is astral perception worth doubling in the flexible, or buying for the 1 in the permanent? Enhanced reflexes is probably better to buy permanent too, since the costs for rank 3 in flexible would be...7 points smile.gif

I think Astral Perception is ideal for the flexible list. It isnít something that you need access to all the time and it would be rarely used in combat. It makes a perfect choice. Also forcing the player to pick the definable abilities (Improved senses, improved skill, etc) keeps a little of the munchkin magic skill-wires to a minimum.
Voran
With the framework we have so far, anyone see a way to 'break it'? Like, go full nuts munchkin with it?
Chance359
I see a complex action being to quick to change powers, I'd suggest a Magic test to change, 1 hit changes the power, the rest of the hits reduce time it takes, base time of 1 hour.
DMiller
QUOTE (Chance359 @ Aug 1 2013, 12:29 AM) *
I see a complex action being to quick to change powers, I'd suggest a Magic test to change, 1 hit changes the power, the rest of the hits reduce time it takes, base time of 1 hour.

I could see this going either way, it really depends on the type of game you are running and what you want from the ability. I'd actually suggest play testing with both 1 Complex Action and 1 hour divided by hits on a Magic Test... Of course with the Magic Test idea, what happens on a failure, Glitch, and Critical Glitch?
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Chance359 @ Jul 31 2013, 11:29 PM) *
I see a complex action being to quick to change powers, I'd suggest a Magic test to change, 1 hit changes the power, the rest of the hits reduce time it takes, base time of 1 hour.
I think this is too prohibitive in terms of utility for the powers. The adept already is paying double PP for the flexibility, and then they might have to wait (a significant portion of) 1 hour to use their different abilities? I'd go with a Complex Action for playtesting, then if characters are really abusing this and becoming overpowered I'd change it to something like minutes instead of hours.
Voran
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Aug 1 2013, 02:36 AM) *
I think this is too prohibitive in terms of utility for the powers. The adept already is paying double PP for the flexibility, and then they might have to wait (a significant portion of) 1 hour to use their different abilities? I'd go with a Complex Action for playtesting, then if characters are really abusing this and becoming overpowered I'd change it to something like minutes instead of hours.


Yeah, I'd prefer keeping it at simple/complex action level. The mitigating factor being that if you ARE swapping powers, that's time you're not doing something else. Plus to get the abilities for your flexible pool you have to 'buy them' like learning a new spell. So there's initial overhead as well.

Fyndhal
QUOTE (DMiller @ Jul 31 2013, 01:50 AM) *
Here's my take on this idea.

<snip>
So in our example Andy can choose any combination of powers from the pool that add up to 3 PP as that is how many ranks of Power Flexibility Andy has.


I like it. I would, however, add the limitation: A player can have no more than 1/2 Magic Rating in Ranks of this Power.

This prevents Initiates who have bought several PP from having massive variable pools.
Voran
QUOTE (Fyndhal @ Aug 1 2013, 04:15 PM) *
I like it. I would, however, add the limitation: A player can have no more than 1/2 Magic Rating in Ranks of this Power.

This prevents Initiates who have bought several PP from having massive variable pools.


Hm, maybe a "Needs to raise their magic limit, buy the actual magic point increase, THEN gets to benefit from the "PP"? It'd lend to a slower increase in pool size overall, because you'd have to initiate to increase your magic limit, then spend more karma to buy that actual magic point. A bit more expensive, thus slower, than Initiate and Choose 1 more PP.
Voran
Fiddling a bit more, it occurs to me that without another limiting factor a flexible adept could potentially alpha strike everything into 1 power, and gain like 6 ranks, even if they cost 1 PP each. So like +6 Enhanced perception, .5 normal x2 to 1 for being a flexible pool power. Yeah maybe half/magic or half/flexible pool maxed ranks in any given power would be a good limitation.
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