In trying to write up a FAQ regarding the Matrix for my players, I realized I had a numbers of questions myself.

1. What does Patrol IC roll for its Matrix Perception test? Is it straight Data Processing (based on the host's rating)? It does not have a Computer skill, so if it's unattended, does that mean its rating fills in for Intuition? Is it Host Rating x2 like other IC attacks?

2. If a decker is running silent and the Probe IC succeeds on its roll to determine that something is out there, if it fails on its first roll to precisely determine the decker's location, does the IC suffer from -2 dice for each subsequent attempt?

3. What counts as "the target" for a Hide action? Can you Hide from the host, as opposed to having all the IC roll separate checks? So, for example, surrounded by 3 rating 3 IC in a rating 6 host, can my decker target the host vs. (Rating 6 used in place of Intuition + the host's DP rating)?

4. Is there no rating multiplier on the cost of common and hacking programs?

Well, Programs no longer have Ratings, so why would they need a Rating/Cost Multiplier?
The other three? Got nothing for you yet. Still plugging away.

The Matrix Perception action says it is a Computer + Intuition [Data Processing] test. From pg 247: "IC uses the Matrix attributes of its host." so we know the host's Data Processing is the limit. We know that "IC rolls the Host rating x 2 for any attacks" (p. 247), and since that's normally a Cybercombat + Logic test, we can infer that both the attributes and skills of the IC are equal to the Host Rating. Plus, IC are kinda like Agents, and Agents use their rating as both their attributes and for Computer (pg. 246). So, though it isn't spelled out in the rules, Host Rating x 2 seems like the correct dice pool to use.


I was not aware there were penalties to Matrix Perception actions beyond the first. Where are you getting that from?


The Hide action says the target is an icon, so you'd have to hide from each IC separately, since each has its own icon.


As TJ said, cyberprograms don't have ratings anymore.

Simply for uniformity's sake, this seems reasonable (although it makes sneaking around hosts very tricky); Cybercombat is not an attribute so there's no reason (RAW) that the IC would use Host rating in its place. I'm not too worried about resolving this at my table, but for SRM I expect it will cause some issues.



It's not Matrix-specific, but in theory the Patrol IC is trying again (p. 49) once it's looking for a specific hidden icon. I'd certainly impose a -2 penalty to PC efforts to re-search a room looking for a specific artifact.



Under icon (p. 216) a host is listed as an example.



Yeah, I'm still getting used to that, I guess. And they're just so damn cheap!

Well, I see your point, but I wouldn't apply that rule in this case. If you do, you could get into a situation where the IC has such a huge penalty for trying again, it will never find the intruding decker.

Also, I'm not sure the point of that penalty. Are you supposed to give up if you fail? If the guys on Ninja Warrior had that attitude, the Warped Wall would stop even more people.


I guess the question then becomes, if you Hide from the host, are you also hidden from the IC? Again, since the IC have their own icons, I'd say no, but I suppose it's up to the GM. Perhaps I'd just be a meanie of a GM, but I'd say if 3 IC are onto you, it's well past time to jack out.

Totally agree on all points--Hiding vs. 3 IC is probably going to generate so many defensive hits on your OS that you're screwed no matter what happens. I'm also not a fan of giving the IC a progressive penalty (players will just Edge to first roll to give the IC the penalty and then watch it grow), since all decking runs would become milk runs in about 3 turns if that's the case, but there aren't really any clear rules as to how frequently the Patrol IC looks for you in the first place.

The problem with not imposing the cumulative -2 on the perception checks is that there is then no reason not have constantly 3 ice scanning for invisible hackers in all hosts, making any kind of stealth impossible.

Also very true...

it's a threshold 1 test to detect that there is a hidden icon in the host. it's pretty much already too late for sneaking in with any significant chance for success. once they know there's a hidden icon, they just have to keep looking for it, and given the host can spawn IC infinitely, it can just turn off the first IC and spawn a new one if it wants to get around the limitation.

Yes, but since the IC Failed the roll (making that assumption, as that argument assumes that they did), The IC should not be looking any longer (Nothing to see here, move along). Spamming rolls is metagaming, and should be eliminated.

it's metagaming for a player to some extent. for an IC, constantly checking for hidden icons over and over makes an awful lot of sense, given that it's a non-sentient program.

a human will eventually get bored of the repetition. IC will not. unless it becomes a full-blown AI, but at that point who knows what might happen...

Except a host can only have 1 Patrol IC running at any given time and Patrol IC are the only IC that can actually spot someone running hidden. Turning off IC and bringing a new one online doesn't solve the problem for the host because the new IC shows up at the beginning of the combat turn. This potentially gives the decker 1-2 passes of no IC at all to worry about.

Or, looking at it another way: The IC wouldn't know what to analyze, so it would have to look through everything by going through a queue. The larger the system, the longer it would take to come back around to scanning you.

if you're hidden, the queue likely consists of you, you, and you. the IC can perform a scan for icons running silent, then choose to check one of those icons... probably you're the only one on the host that it hasn't already got an awareness of.

if you're not hidden, then the odds of the test failing are quite extremely low. but sure, if it fails, it'll have to run through everything else, then come back to you.

Yes, Assuming that it discovered you, I would agree. But if it did not (the assumption, remember), it would not look for you again, since it did not discover you, nor add you to the "Queue."

I’d suggest that after the IC (rolling Host Rating x2) detects that there are hidden icons in the area it would roll to spot the hidden icons, if this test failed it would move on and keep doing its routine. That routine would of course involve looking for hidden icons, when it finds hidden icons (again) it would get a fresh try at spotting the hidden icon without penalty as this is linked to a new “find hidden icons” test. So this process would repeat until the Decker is spotted or leaves.

I have concerns that according to RAW the Patrol IC wouldn't do anything even if it found you. It is no problem to hack yourself three marks on the host before you go in. The description of the Patrol IC says if you have marks, you are considered a legitimate user. So why worry even about Patrol IC when you need a mark to enter the host anyway? Seems a bit weird to me, but then a lot of these rules are similarly half-baked.

Btw, did this edition (5) get rid of the ability to use Agents as backup? With the 'dmg to agents = damage to device" quality, unless you're able to drop the agent into the node (are we still using nodes?) you're decking around in, wouldn't an agent just make you potentially twice as vulnerable to deck dmg/etc? I suppose the benefit being you can get multiple 'attacks' you plus your agent when brute rumbling through a deck.

Why's this the case tho? Do they want to keep separate qualities? IC 'damage to itself but not the device/node its running on' , agents 'yeah, they get hurt, they burn your deck, haha"

Also, if a host provides its rating + 3/2/1/0 for its ..err...ratings, does that only apply for actions within the host itself, or can the host attributes be used to do stuff outside its area. If your host provides better than Fairlight ratings for example, can you then use that host attributes to run rampant across the matrix?

@Abschalten: if the Patrol IC spots you, you have Marks on the Host and you haven't done anything the alert the system yet then yep. It doesn't do anything apart from note your presence. However if you do something that alerts the system (things like the failed Sleaze, tripping a data bomb and so on), then it will be able to report your location for the other IC to spot as soon as they rezz.

This seems like it would trivialize matrix runs. Roll your 18 dice to Hack on the Fly (eqv.) while you're outside the host, do it 3 times to get 3 marks and then enter the host. I'm leaning towards having the Patrol IC note your presence, but every time you roll either a Sleaze or Attack action (as opposed to a Matrix Action) it rolls again to realize that, despite your marks, you're doing something illegitimate.

Patrol IC is looking for illegal activity. It uses Matrix Perception. One of the things specifically on the list of data you can get from a Matrix Perception Test is the last Matrix action performed by an icon and when it was.

So that means when you log in and see Patrol IC, always do a Matrix Perception roll after every illegal activity.

The equivalent of putting on a maintenance uniform and looking busy, I imagine. =i)

Nothing wrong with looking busy, I guess.