Hep!!

Is there a complete list of flaws & edges somewhere?

And maybe how the flaws & edges system works?

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Yep, Shadowrun Companion revised for 3rd Edition lists almost all of the legal ones in the game. Cannon Companion includes an Ambidexterity edge and Matrix includes the Matrix Addiction flaw. I think that's about all of them. The Companion goes into detail about how they work, too.

Technically, no, I don't think there is. However, as the Lime pointed out, nearly everything is in the Shadowrun Companion.

~J

Look. He doesn't know, he obviously doesn't have the book, so how the hell else is he going to find out if he doesn't ask?

That's why I referenced the books he needs.

That one wasn't directed at you, Lime.

No opportunity to be a jerk here, Kakkaraun!

Flaws are bad qualities to your character. Like, colorblindness. Edges are good things, like the ability to keep perfect time. Each one gives a plus or minus based on how detrimental/beneficial it is.

In a build point system, edges take away build points, flaws give more. In priority system, the pluses have to balance the minuses.

But yeah, read the 3rd edition companion.

So... if you don't own the books, you don't deserve to know? He asked a simple question, easily answered with a brief, 4 line summary from Voorhees. He didn't ask 'the full text of Harlequin.' So give it a rest.

If this isn't an information-sharing website, then what the hell is it?

You know, I don't really care if you share game information, because I know very few IRL gaming groups that own more than one copy of a given book between them. I was just surprised that someone would have the balls to ask for the "rules" (not just the basic concept, but the "rules") behind them, on this forum.

Oh, you mean like asking how to deal with an astral signature? Or asking some questions about the timeline? Maybe asking about a code of honor flaw? Asking about the masking rules, the bonus attribute point, or getting help designing a spell between makeover and healthy glow?

That's asking for help with interpretation, not asking for "rules." Christ, chill out. Don't have a seizure.

Err, he asked "how they work", which is what he got told. He didn't ask "Can you list them with the full section in the book about them" or anything. What you're saying is if someone has had Shadowrun briefly described to them, and then came here to get a bit more detail before deciding to buy it or not, we shouldn't tell them anything, 'cause it'd be giving out the rules.

To add to Vorhees's post:

Usual maximum Edge/Flaw points is 6, sometimes 8.
For example:

Perfect Time +1 Edge
Combat Monster -1 Flaw

Each edge costs 1 build point, each flaw gives you an extra build point to spend.
An edge can be balanced out with a flaw(s) of equal value. (see above)

Companion is a great book to have besides Edges/Flaws, as it introduces the Build point system, expands optional rules, introduces new metatypes, as well as ghouls and shapeshifters, and helps in character generation.

Its not like edges and flaws are unique to Shadowrun, either. They're in a lot of systems, and work more or less the same way in all of them.

Hmm!! So this is what I got warned about when I joined you guys. I guess I have to be extremely specific in my questions not to be misunderstood. I do see Kakkaraun`s point about giving out entire systems,....but dude!!!!??? Come on!! This is a give and take forum. You don´t expect us just to help you out, and then you do nothing in return. It´s called Karma, (I believe it works in real life too)

Just to clear this out. (Maybe I wasn´t clear enough to begin with) I wasn´t looking for someone to describe the flaws & edges system, in a matter that all rules should be revealed. I was simply looking for a basic description of how the system works. Is it a point system, where you allocate points? Do you use karma to gain and edge? That kinda thing. If I want the complete rules, I buy the book. (Which I just did 5 minutes ago)

I thought, that someone might have put a list together with some home-made flaws & edges. Something they might wanna share with the public.

(Maybe we need to take a moment and chill out before we go out and split wigs using only our inner frustrations as a target number)

That was meant for you Kakkaraun!!

Homemade edges and flaws are easy to find.

And like Vorhees said, it's a point-based system where, depending on the generation system you're using, Edges cost points and Flaws give them back. Karma can be used to pay off a Flaw but you only gain an Edge when the GM sees fit.

Plus, the character generation program NSRCG has a complete list of them (although it doesn't really explain fully what the edge/flaw does). It's not an accurate character generator, but it's potential for quickref is pretty good.

*WARNING* The latest version works well on my PC, but my friend was forced to reformat his after he installed. This proggie is hereby labeled 'unstable'. Your mileage may vary; when in doubt, get the older version SRCG which doesn't rely so much on VB coding.

A perfect analogy. I don't think that people should need complete knowledge before using the NSRCG, but I think they should know the basic rules and be using their books more than the program. It's not your fault, it's a problem in the end-users. You've done a rather impressive job making a tool, and you deserve credit for that, but I shudder every time a new user who may or may not have finished reading the BBB even is directed to it.

~J

Truth be told, if you could use the generation program without books or extensive knowledge... lots of people wouldn't need the books. And that's counter productive to the hobby.

Pfft. Sorry. Didn't mean to offend you.

The reformat problem:
Apparently has something to do with Microsoft VB, which you used on this program. My copy worked pretty well. My friend, however, had all his microsoft applications die on him immediately after installation. Although his MS office apps can still startup, he can't save, copy and paste. In explorer, this is also the case, and new files don't show up. Even after a restart. I suspect the VB runtime file you supplied conflicted with something somehow, but I'm doing his tech support online and not at his home, so I can't be sure. Come to think of it, maybe I shouldn't blame your program for this....I should blame Microsoft.

As for inaccuraccies:
1. When constructing under point system, the edge/flaw difference always defaults to 0 no matter what's in the list. Note that the points doesn't increase or decrease when you pick and edge/flaw; it still stays at 100/100 (100 being the max number I set for point buy)...although it won't let me purchase an edge at 100. You can even go to the next function and the proggie wouldn't know the difference. It works perfectly fine in normal priority mode, tho it doesn't let the difference be anything other than a 0.....

2. Gun ammunition purchasing is rather clunky. Some ammunition comes only in singles. It's not very user friendly to force someone to clutter the Gear list with multiple copies of 1 bullet type. It also doesn't really support guns with ammo caps that aren't in multiples of 10 (like certain SMGs having 32, 37 and the like) Yes, I know that I can add the records myself using the dat editor, but still, it's mildly unsettling. I recommend trying this instead: lump all the gun ammunition into one section, then when a user chooses the ammunition type, he can also enter parameters (such as quantity, for what type of gun, ammo loading method). An 'ok' button would add <this quantity> of bullets, under a single listing, to the gear list (it's possible to purchase multiple 'clips' using this method too). I don't know if this is possible, but it's a method to think about. You can also use the same system for Missiles, Grenades et al, but since it's not very likely someone would purchase them in _that big a bulk_, it's not really necessary.

I do have the rulebooks; just that I need someone to do the number crunching for me, and that I'm too lazy to go flip them just to search for <this value>.

Oh, and one more thing....

Holy...I must be blind!
I feel sheepish. *slaps self on forehead*

Okay, I understand.
Regarding the gun ammo, what version do you have? The current version number is 3.65 (click options, you'll see it at the bottom). Current version (thanks people who made DAT entries) supports clips of appropriate ammo type. Also, you'll notice a quantity field next to the ADD button. chenge the number and it will place a "[XX] item name" where the xx represents the quantity. (Somebody already got this, need to improve QCK!)
I've checked the edge/flaw bug you mentioned and it works correctly in the current version. Yes, the "100/100" will remain but you'll notice your skills count changing (to represent the point difference).
If you'll look the "Projects Forum" on the main page, you'll find a topic specifically for NSRCG bugs, fixes, and tips. Thanks

Topper, in that case, I misunderstood you. My apologies.

No problem man!