. I want to take a look at one, just for the halibut. It could actually make an interesting conversation, as well.
Full Version: Bioware datajack
Now I'm sure that somebody has designed their own Special Bioware Datajack, and posted it on the Internet, or hid it on their hard drive in shame . I want to take a look at one, just for the halibut. It could actually make an interesting conversation, as well.
. I want to take a look at one, just for the halibut. It could actually make an interesting conversation, as well.
Hey Virgil, y'all remmeber the rope?
Seriously now, last time I saw one of these it was in a bloody GURPS supplement.
Seriously now, last time I saw one of these it was in a bloody GURPS supplement.
I don't grasp your allusion. Which kind of pisses me off. Is that from the Aenid or something?
Eclectic...eclectic...aw, shit, I'm too tired. Nevermind.
Eclectic...eclectic...aw, shit, I'm too tired. Nevermind.
I have to wonder, why?
what would be the point?
how would this be cheaper, or more effective than a cyber datajack.. especially since the matrix is optical and electro-mechanical vs chemical(bioware)...
I jsut can't see why anyone would makesomething like this unless there was some limitation they were trying to overcome.
-Mike R.
what would be the point?
how would this be cheaper, or more effective than a cyber datajack.. especially since the matrix is optical and electro-mechanical vs chemical(bioware)...
I jsut can't see why anyone would makesomething like this unless there was some limitation they were trying to overcome.
-Mike R.
Mages would love it, considering the Bio errata. If you wanted your mage to have a DJ. Which I think a lot of them would. Eh.
There's no way a bioware datajack would have a Bio Index lower than 0.4. Anything of that rating or higher would be worse for a magician, especially since Bioware causes several more problems than just Magic Loss. And even at 0.4, it still sucks compared to (what is doubtless cheaper) alpha, beta, or even deltagrade datajacks... all of which would have an even smaller effect on their magic than the bioware version would.
Another possible way to think about it is that *all* deltaware uses purely biological components for computing, and the difference between the Bio Index of bioware and the Essence cost of cyberware isn't so much the biological nature of the components, but that all cyberware contains data processing capabilities outside those of the human brain (even if it's just for its own adaptive and regenerative capabilities, like bone lacing or dermal sheathing.)
| QUOTE (Fahr) |
| I have to wonder, why? what would be the point? |
1) Bioware can be healed. Datajack on the fritz because that corpsec guard put a few rounds in your skull? No problem! The team's mage can heal that while the samurai uses a teaspoon to scoop up errant bits of your brain off the floor.
2) Bioware is lower maintenance. Again, it's that "organic living healing" factor.
3) It's easy to imagine the bioware datajack could hide itself as a small scar if you include a muscular sphincter at its opening. No need for the induction datajack or worrying about dust getting in there, and you can start all sorts of fascinating conversations at parties with the line, "So, I've got a new sphincter and it's in my head..."
4) Aesthetics. I admit that every now and then I attempt an "all bioware" character. Bioware is cool. Being able to jack in without cyber would help the concept along.
Suggested Bioware Rules (that I just pulled out of another sphincter):
Type: Neural bioware (automatically cultured like Cerebral booster & friends)
Bio Index: 0.3
Cost: 20,000 nuyen (add 20,000 if it includes an ASIST converter)
No street index or availability at this time.
Fluff: The Bioware Datajack is a tour de force of groundbreaking bioware technology. From the rapid response light-sensitive cells that read the light pulses of the datajack to the supplementary neural processor packet that translates the raw electronic signals for the human brain, the Bioware Datajack demonstrates [insert megacorp]'s leading position in the Biotech Revolution. To aid in maintenance by preventing dust and moisture ingress, the Bioware Datajack is able to close itself with a thought, appearing like nothing more than a minor scar. Data throughput has been demonstrated to be every bit as high as cybernetic equivalents.
OOC Reason for 0.3 bio-index: my first thought was of the thermosense organs, which are 0.5, and include the sensory and processing equivalents of the Bioware Datajack. But then I thought of the sleep regulator and other low-cost neural bioware, and figured 0.3 wouldn't hurt for what's basically an expensive datajack. You're not getting more benefit out of the Bioware Datajack than the regular datajack, so why hammer bioware users? 0.3 seemed adequate.
Also: Mages may lose magic, but installing a normal datajack lowers essence which makes them harder to heal using a heal spell.
I've seen a bioware datajack on a webpage somewhere...
Otherwise it just reminds me of the movie 'eXistenZ' with it's bioports...
Could be an interesting idea for shadowrun, but you wouldn't be able to use a regular dataport, so the costs in bio-adapters should outweigh most benefits. I'd also go the eXistenZ way and have the bioport plug into the spinal cord, but put it right up at the top of the neck.
Costs, hmm... looking at existing bioware I'd say Bio Index 0.5 (the necessary changes to the neural structure shouldn't be too disimilar to a Mnemonic Enhancer and a partial Synaptic Accelerator combined.) and should cost somewhere around 50,000¥, SI probably 1.
The adapterplug should cost something like 2,500¥, SI 1. Or 3,000¥ and 0.1 essence if you want it implanted into the bioport.
Availability not less than 8 for the port, and maybe 6 for the adapter?
Having a bioport instead of a datajack should force the port itself to roll for damage at any feedback, alternatively raise the damage (either by one damage level, or +2 power).
Benefits would be no lost essence, not detectable by most scans (or even a cursory physical examination, since it closes in a sphincter-like manner), and it will heal by itself or by use of magic if it is damaged. Which remainds me... stress.
Light stress: User suffers headaches. +1 TN to all use of the port.
Moderate stress: Port sends out 'phantom data' causing in distraction - reduce all tests requiring concentration by 1 die, including magical activity. +2 TN to all use of the port.
Serious stress: The character frequently suffers stabs of pain. 1D6 times a day (GM decides when) the character has to resist 4L stun damage with Willpower. The port also interferes with neural signals sent below the neck - +1 TN to all active skill use. +3 TN to all use of the port.
Deadly stress: The port is unusable, and once each day the character has a 1-in-6 chance of suffering an apileptic seizure. 8D stun damage and convulses for 2D6 minutes.
I don't think it'll appear in my games anytime soon...
Otherwise it just reminds me of the movie 'eXistenZ' with it's bioports...
Could be an interesting idea for shadowrun, but you wouldn't be able to use a regular dataport, so the costs in bio-adapters should outweigh most benefits. I'd also go the eXistenZ way and have the bioport plug into the spinal cord, but put it right up at the top of the neck.
Costs, hmm... looking at existing bioware I'd say Bio Index 0.5 (the necessary changes to the neural structure shouldn't be too disimilar to a Mnemonic Enhancer and a partial Synaptic Accelerator combined.) and should cost somewhere around 50,000¥, SI probably 1.
The adapterplug should cost something like 2,500¥, SI 1. Or 3,000¥ and 0.1 essence if you want it implanted into the bioport.
Availability not less than 8 for the port, and maybe 6 for the adapter?
Having a bioport instead of a datajack should force the port itself to roll for damage at any feedback, alternatively raise the damage (either by one damage level, or +2 power).
Benefits would be no lost essence, not detectable by most scans (or even a cursory physical examination, since it closes in a sphincter-like manner), and it will heal by itself or by use of magic if it is damaged. Which remainds me... stress.
Light stress: User suffers headaches. +1 TN to all use of the port.
Moderate stress: Port sends out 'phantom data' causing in distraction - reduce all tests requiring concentration by 1 die, including magical activity. +2 TN to all use of the port.
Serious stress: The character frequently suffers stabs of pain. 1D6 times a day (GM decides when) the character has to resist 4L stun damage with Willpower. The port also interferes with neural signals sent below the neck - +1 TN to all active skill use. +3 TN to all use of the port.
Deadly stress: The port is unusable, and once each day the character has a 1-in-6 chance of suffering an apileptic seizure. 8D stun damage and convulses for 2D6 minutes.
I don't think it'll appear in my games anytime soon...
At first the idea struck me as absolutely impossible and not making a whole lot of sense. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized; Throwing aside game balance, there's no reason for this not to exist in SR.
For one, they've already got how the human brain works, for the most part. At least as far as translating and transmitting data and memory, they've got that taken care of, otherwise Datajacks (as an interface between machine and brain memory/thought processes) wouldn't exist. It only makes sense that, if they've got the brain figured out that much, they could create another neural network-- from ACTUAL NEURONS-- that does the same translating and transmitting into pulses (some other organ, fitting around the datajack). It may not be as fast as receiving and transmitting signals as a datajack (electrical digital impulses being faster than neurons reasonably translate and transmit), but there's no reason why it wouldn't be possible.
Of course, I'm just meta-thinking. I don't personally have a Cybertechnology background knowledge skill, nor a Biotech skill by any means, so I could be wrong.
For one, they've already got how the human brain works, for the most part. At least as far as translating and transmitting data and memory, they've got that taken care of, otherwise Datajacks (as an interface between machine and brain memory/thought processes) wouldn't exist. It only makes sense that, if they've got the brain figured out that much, they could create another neural network-- from ACTUAL NEURONS-- that does the same translating and transmitting into pulses (some other organ, fitting around the datajack). It may not be as fast as receiving and transmitting signals as a datajack (electrical digital impulses being faster than neurons reasonably translate and transmit), but there's no reason why it wouldn't be possible.
Of course, I'm just meta-thinking. I don't personally have a Cybertechnology background knowledge skill, nor a Biotech skill by any means, so I could be wrong.
Bioware = biological Cyberware = technological. Bioware = makes something already in the body work better or mimicks a natural ability of another biological organism. Cyberware = does all that, PLUS can add new abilities. The datajack, chipjack, headware memory, vision mods other than low-light and thermo, cybergun, all that stuff...that's cyberware. That's the whole point of having two different types of mods. Bioware is less intrusive (thus doesn't cause essence loss), but it can't do certain things. Cyberware can do damn near anything you need it to do, but it is inserting (or replacing parts with) foreign objects in the body and forcing them to interact with the biology of the body, therefore is more intrusive and causes essence loss.
The Abstruse One
The Abstruse One
1) Bioware may be able to "heal" itself, but unfortunately, bioware can't heal Stress damage which is about the only type of damage implants really take in the game. What's more, you can never repair bioware that's hit Light stress. It's impossible. Bioware also always suffers a downside with each level of Stress, so even that single Stress point is enough to cause potentially serious problems.
2) The penalties due to Bio Index are far worse than even a full point of Essence loss. They include a) penalties to all healing tests, not just the spell, b) the Power of drugs toxins and diseases increase by at least 1, and c) the aforementioned pains of bioware stress over cyberware stress.
3) Even if one could be created, Cray's stats are way too low for it. While it's a matter of standard operating procedure in the cybernetic field, such an implant would require extensive augmentation of the body. Something as simple as adding a little bit of tissue to the heart costs as much as 0.3 Bio Index. Rewiring the brain so that it naturally converts input from an equally extensively implanted port to the point where you function as an otaku (who are about the only ones who might be able to get it without too much surgical modification; why Cray made it more expensive is beyond me) is going to be way more than a piddly 0.3 Bio Index. 0.6 to 1.0 is more like it.
It's not a simple plug-and-play installation here. You're completely rewiring the brain (something even Synaptic Accelerators and Cerebral Boosters don't even do) AND adding an organ that can not only accept input and output to a technological device BUT also translate the information and send it back to the brain. That's beyond a tall order. No other type of bioware does anything even remotely similar to that.
2) The penalties due to Bio Index are far worse than even a full point of Essence loss. They include a) penalties to all healing tests, not just the spell, b) the Power of drugs toxins and diseases increase by at least 1, and c) the aforementioned pains of bioware stress over cyberware stress.
3) Even if one could be created, Cray's stats are way too low for it. While it's a matter of standard operating procedure in the cybernetic field, such an implant would require extensive augmentation of the body. Something as simple as adding a little bit of tissue to the heart costs as much as 0.3 Bio Index. Rewiring the brain so that it naturally converts input from an equally extensively implanted port to the point where you function as an otaku (who are about the only ones who might be able to get it without too much surgical modification; why Cray made it more expensive is beyond me) is going to be way more than a piddly 0.3 Bio Index. 0.6 to 1.0 is more like it.
It's not a simple plug-and-play installation here. You're completely rewiring the brain (something even Synaptic Accelerators and Cerebral Boosters don't even do) AND adding an organ that can not only accept input and output to a technological device BUT also translate the information and send it back to the brain. That's beyond a tall order. No other type of bioware does anything even remotely similar to that.
| QUOTE (Ancient History) |
| Hey Virgil, y'all remmeber the rope? Seriously now, last time I saw one of these it was in a bloody GURPS supplement. |
Deliverance. If this had been an actual camping trip in rural Georgia, you'd have been sodomized by now.
It is hard to imagine a bioware datajack, because by the time you build it the damn thing's pretty much cyberware anyways. Here's two (strictly visual) takes on it:
Bone-jack
This datajack, cultured from some of the subject's own cells, appears as a knob of bone with a hole of the proper dimensions to accept a standard jack. Small glands within the jack keep this recess coated with an anti-bacterial saline gel that facilitates the sending and receiving of signals from a standard ASIST unit to the nerve contacts within the implant.
Introdes
A less invasive procedure thasn the standard datajack, this implant is actually a serious of injections of cultured tissue and nanites around the skull. Once the nanites attach the implants, imperceptible to all but astral perceptions, the subject can use a modified trode net to gain the full advantages normally given by a datajack; the Introdes boosting the input/output of the trode net to such a degree that pure DNI is achievable. Introdes have the additional advantage of being very difficult to detect.
Snowraven: the Light Stress effect usually has no mechanical disadvantages; you break with that trend with your suggestion.
~J
~J
Here is a 2nd edition take on the idea. It isn't mine, I just knew where to look.
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| 1) Bioware may be able to "heal" itself, but unfortunately, bioware can't heal Stress damage which is about the only type of damage implants really take in the game. What's more, you can never repair bioware that's hit Light stress. It's impossible. Bioware also always suffers a downside with each level of Stress, so even that single Stress point is enough to cause potentially serious problems. |
I know, the stress rules for bioware are very lame. However, bioware's still relatively easy to maintain.
| QUOTE |
| 2) The penalties due to Bio Index are far worse than even a full point of Essence loss. |
"Far worse" is an exaggeration, especially since M&M errata clarified that the extra drawbacks only kick in for every 2 full points. Keep the bioware load under 2 points and you should be fine, or just toss in a nephritic screen.
| QUOTE |
| Rewiring the brain so that it naturally converts input |
When you only have a small sampling of equipment fluff to work from, you should probably be asking questions of the author about how the equipment works, not telling him. The above quote about rewiring is a case in point. You're making assumptions about the background behind the equipment that I don't share and shoving words in my mouth that I did not say about the gear.
In my suggested biotech datajack, the brain isn't doing anything new, nor is anything being rewired. What's going on is the following:
*The brain is untouched and unchanged, except for lacing in the data connections, just like a cybernetic datajack.
*The brain performs no new functions, just like in a cybernetic datajack.
*The data reception is being performed by a standalone group of sensory cells at the base of the bioware datajack. This is equivalent to one of the many sensory clusters ('pits') that make up the thermosense organs. Again, the brain is not modified. Rather, additional "hardware" grown for the task is added.
*The data translation is being performed by a new, grafted packet of vat-grown nerve tissue. This is nothing new to bioware: something like it probably exists to translate thermosense organs' output, and several other neural bioware add chunks of nerve tissue to perform specific tasks (augment memory, improve sleep regulation, etc.) Again, no rewiring of the brain, just addition of new hardware to handle an unusual (for bioware) task.
*The whole bioware datajack (except for the connections to the brain) is a graft, like the cerebral booster or chemical gland. It's a new, standalone addition that does not require rewiring the brain.
Lime, rather than trying to make the bioware datajack as difficult a task as possible, how about trying to solve the problems with the easiest solutions? Why go through all the trouble of rewiring the brain or augmenting the whole body?
| QUOTE |
| why Cray made it more expensive is beyond me |
All you need to do is ask. I'm here frequently.
Ancient History, I like that Bone Jack suggestion.
You could make it the equivalent of an induction datajack. Biology does photosensitive cells fairly well.
Umm... this is impossible. You can say "that would be cool" all you want. It still doesn't make it work.
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| You could make it the equivalent of an induction datajack. Biology does photosensitive cells fairly well. |
Hmmm...that's quite an idea, actually. Really, it would work--I don't think it could work as well as a real datajack (maybe...-2 reaction, limited to 3d6 init? Like 'trodes, but less strict?), but it would work. Unless, of course, Ecc has some secret mystical reason why they wouldn't, but would prefer just to make unsupported pseudo-arguments, instead.
Biology does photosensitive cells well, yes. Does it do output well? What about at the speed and resolution required? I have to say, I agree that this just isn't possible.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| You could make it the equivalent of an induction datajack. Biology does photosensitive cells fairly well. |
Yup, I was using those. I figured a packet of new brain cells acting as a "translator" would also be needed, to translate the raw data into something the rest of the brain could handle.
I started using the light sensitive cell idea back in 2000 in Battletech for an attempt to make a safer Direct Neural Interface, and invoked SR's simsense. Now the wheel is turning around and coming back to SR...hmm...[deep thoughts] [deep thoughts]
| QUOTE (kagetenshi) |
| Biology does photosensitive cells well, yes. Does it do output well? What about at the speed and resolution required? I have to say, I agree that this just isn't possible. |
SR's optical chips are based on biological dyes found in microbes. Now SR's optical technology would be bringing the photosensitive dyes back to cells.
Well, the there are animals that produce electric fields, this could be a modified form of that, combined with a sharks ability to sense the electrical activity of the brain in it's prey, it's not impossible for an induction bio-datajack
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| induction bio-datajack |
If you would permit an organic version of the datajack, I would back this one. A specialized nerve bundle that reaches a specific area near the surface where a small, specialty trode rig handles the data conversions.
A few things are necessary for this to work.
1. It must have some method of converting thoughts and images and text in your brain into machine-readable formats.
2. It must be able to transmit those formats, once translated and converted, into a datajack, which connects to the Matrix.
3. It must be able to do steps 2 and 1 in reverse.
A few juicy bits for your brains. Neurons are pretty close to digital processing as it stands right now. They send chemical electrical pulses with certain 'weights' or values, each weight affecting how the next neuron transmits its signal.
So a gland that is simply a translating cluster of neurons, taking data, by normal neuron pathways, from certain sites in the brain, could easily take thoughts and images to translate into electrical pulses at the end neurons, attached to another gland meant only to translate these chemical pulses to electrical ones over the surface of the datajack.
And if the doctors of 2060 can do this electronically, then they HAVE to know enough about it to do it biologically.
1. It must have some method of converting thoughts and images and text in your brain into machine-readable formats.
2. It must be able to transmit those formats, once translated and converted, into a datajack, which connects to the Matrix.
3. It must be able to do steps 2 and 1 in reverse.
A few juicy bits for your brains. Neurons are pretty close to digital processing as it stands right now. They send chemical electrical pulses with certain 'weights' or values, each weight affecting how the next neuron transmits its signal.
So a gland that is simply a translating cluster of neurons, taking data, by normal neuron pathways, from certain sites in the brain, could easily take thoughts and images to translate into electrical pulses at the end neurons, attached to another gland meant only to translate these chemical pulses to electrical ones over the surface of the datajack.
And if the doctors of 2060 can do this electronically, then they HAVE to know enough about it to do it biologically.
Actually there are animals that create rapidly changing photo-luminescent displays. If you wanted to increase the bandwidth you would just have several pipelines working in paralell.
Another idea for a bio datajack could basically be a more efficient trode net. 'Trode nets right now are slow. This is presumably because of all of the filtering, data-cleaning, and data projection that needs to be performed. If a set of specially-designed nerves, directly linked to appropriate parts of the CNS, were to be relocated next to the skin then a special 'trode net could interface directly with them making the whole thing work far faster.
[random neuroscience lecture]
@ I Eat Time: IIRC Neurons are not really that close to digital processing. In-fact they're more advanced than any of the 'neural networks' people have made on computers or in electronics. They work on analogue inputs working on an analogue threshold value that goes up as it is stimulated until it ignores particular signals.
I'd be able to tell you more, but I burned my biological systems and biorobotics notes after the exam on tuseday, then got thoroughly drunk to celebrate it being my last exam ever, then forgot 1/2 the course
[/random neuroscience lecture]
Another idea for a bio datajack could basically be a more efficient trode net. 'Trode nets right now are slow. This is presumably because of all of the filtering, data-cleaning, and data projection that needs to be performed. If a set of specially-designed nerves, directly linked to appropriate parts of the CNS, were to be relocated next to the skin then a special 'trode net could interface directly with them making the whole thing work far faster.
[random neuroscience lecture]
@ I Eat Time: IIRC Neurons are not really that close to digital processing. In-fact they're more advanced than any of the 'neural networks' people have made on computers or in electronics. They work on analogue inputs working on an analogue threshold value that goes up as it is stimulated until it ignores particular signals.
I'd be able to tell you more, but I burned my biological systems and biorobotics notes after the exam on tuseday, then got thoroughly drunk to celebrate it being my last exam ever, then forgot 1/2 the course
[/random neuroscience lecture]
The datajack standard output is something like an instant brain scanner or something similar. Transducers and ASIST Converters are separate piece of equipment, that are in most of the case installed inside the things you're connected to.
So an eventual biodatajack would be akin to a set of neurons wired to recisely reflect the activity of each micro-area of the brain. The biggest issue I see is that there would be much more variables to transmit than you could have in parallel in a wire of a reasonable size. And AFAIK neuro-science (and that's not a lot I admit), neurons are pretty bad at respecting windows of transmissions. Could still try a token ring...
So an eventual biodatajack would be akin to a set of neurons wired to recisely reflect the activity of each micro-area of the brain. The biggest issue I see is that there would be much more variables to transmit than you could have in parallel in a wire of a reasonable size. And AFAIK neuro-science (and that's not a lot I admit), neurons are pretty bad at respecting windows of transmissions. Could still try a token ring...
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| Actually there are animals that create rapidly changing photo-luminescent displays. If you wanted to increase the bandwidth you would just have several pipelines working in paralell. |
Sure. Have the photosensitive cells scan the incoming data in succession. As some cells get laden with photo responses to input pulses, they discharge the signal to the translation cells behind them while freshly discharged cells begin registering more photoinput. How many photosensitive cells can fit on the head of a datajack?
| QUOTE |
| [random neuroscience lecture] @ I Eat Time: IIRC Neurons are not really that close to digital processing. In-fact they're more advanced than any of the 'neural networks' people have made on computers or in electronics. They work on analogue inputs working on an analogue threshold value that goes up as it is stimulated until it ignores particular signals. |
And there's some evidence that data processing goes on within individual brain cells, yes? Have the protosensitive cells perform some preprocessing, registering the light pulses from the datajack at a chemical/organelle level (organic nanites), accumulating them into a single "analogue byte" that the translation cells behind them can work with at reasonable speeds.
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