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V-Origin
How would you run a campaign with two different Police forces? Eg Lone Star and another AA Law-Enforcement Corp in the same city?
IridiosDZ
I don't know what your intention is for the campaign, but as for how it came to pass.

The city council is (and has been for some time) evenly divided on which provider should be awarded the contract. The deciding vote was hospitalized shortly before making his decision known. [Hospitalized by runners?] A residents activist group (which is represents a specific section of the city) scraped together the funds to sign a contract with one corp to provide coverage for the specific section.

The city council, sensing a coup [and possibly a bribe or two] decides on corp #2 and signs the contract. The council and corp #2 try to push corp #1 out of its section of the city, but corp #1 and the activist group fight in the legal system. They argue that at the time that the contract with corp #1 was signed, the council was deadlocked and did not have a valid contract.

The judge decides in favor of a compromise. There will be a competition between the two corps for business for a period of time [one or two years at most] and at the end of that time, the corp who 'patrols' the larger percentage of the city wins the new contract for the whole city. Corp #1 can sign up any business or neighborhood as a customer. Corp #2 (The city's choice) gets the rest by default. Public events do not count as they are temporary. Crime or emergencies on public streets such as highways and bypasses (not residential or downtown surface streets) are 'neutral ground'.

This will result is some chaos and confusion. It will also be fertile ground for some basic runner activity.
V-Origin
QUOTE (IridiosDZ @ Sep 8 2013, 10:29 PM) *
I don't know what your intention is for the campaign, but as for how it came to pass.

The city council is (and has been for some time) evenly divided on which provider should be awarded the contract. The deciding vote was hospitalized shortly before making his decision known. [Hospitalized by runners?] A residents activist group (which is represents a specific section of the city) scraped together the funds to sign a contract with one corp to provide coverage for the specific section.

The city council, sensing a coup [and possibly a bribe or two] decides on corp #2 and signs the contract. The council and corp #2 try to push corp #1 out of its section of the city, but corp #1 and the activist group fight in the legal system. They argue that at the time that the contract with corp #1 was signed, the council was deadlocked and did not have a valid contract.

The judge decides in favor of a compromise. There will be a competition between the two corps for business for a period of time [one or two years at most] and at the end of that time, the corp who 'patrols' the larger percentage of the city wins the new contract for the whole city. Corp #1 can sign up any business or neighborhood as a customer. Corp #2 (The city's choice) gets the rest by default. Public events do not count as they are temporary. Crime or emergencies on public streets such as highways and bypasses (not residential or downtown surface streets) are 'neutral ground'.

This will result is some chaos and confusion. It will also be fertile ground for some basic runner activity.


See what happens is after Ghost Cartels, both KE and Lone Star are having their law enforcement contract issues looked at by HK and Seattle respectively.

Now I have a self-created AA Private Security Firm which specialize in providing really expensive yet highly efficient bodyguard services for high profile clients. Magic, Spirits, Cyberware, Matrix, you name it we have it.

And what makes my AA Private Security Firm different from KE and Lone Star is that each of my AA Private Security Bodyguards looks as beautiful as an elf. So the clients are not only paying for protection but really "beautiful" protectors as well.

Think playboy bunnies who accompany you on shopping trips and business lunches yet keeping you well-protected against assassins. Celebrity Bodyguards as in Bodyguards who are Celebrities in themselves.

I am thinking that my AA private Security Firm will snag the law enforcement contracts for the poshest parts of the cities while leaving the poorer suburbs to KE/Lone Star.

So that means in Seattle, Bellevue and some parts of downtown Seattle would fall under my company's jurisdiction while the poorer neighborhoods will fall under KE/Lonestar's jurisdiction. In hong kong, that would means downtown HK and eastern HK, the main HK island being under my jurisdiction while the northern poorer parts of HK would be under KE's jurisdiction.

Because my bodyguards look so hot while doing their jobs, it makes sense that the richer areas of Seattle and HK and any other cities would want the best and the most beautiful guarding them. The poorer grunges have no such money of course.
V-Origin
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 9 2013, 12:54 AM) *
See what happens is after Ghost Cartels, both KE and Lone Star are having their law enforcement contract issues looked at by HK and Seattle respectively.

Now I have a self-created AA Private Security Firm which specialize in providing really expensive yet highly efficient bodyguard services for high profile clients. Magic, Spirits, Cyberware, Matrix, you name it we have it.

And what makes my AA Private Security Firm different from KE and Lone Star is that each of my AA Private Security Bodyguards looks as beautiful as an elf. So the clients are not only paying for protection but really "beautiful" protectors as well.

Think playboy bunnies who accompany you on shopping trips and business lunches yet keeping you well-protected against assassins. Celebrity Bodyguards as in Bodyguards who are Celebrities in themselves.

I am thinking that my AA private Security Firm will snag the law enforcement contracts for the poshest parts of the cities while leaving the poorer suburbs to KE/Lone Star.

So that means in Seattle, Bellevue and some parts of downtown Seattle would fall under my company's jurisdiction while the poorer neighborhoods will fall under KE/Lonestar's jurisdiction. In hong kong, that would means downtown HK and eastern HK, the main HK island being under my jurisdiction while the northern poorer parts of HK would be under KE's jurisdiction.

Because my bodyguards look so hot while doing their jobs, it makes sense that the richer areas of Seattle and HK and any other cities would want the best and the most beautiful guarding them. The poorer grunges have no such money of course.


But the problem here is what happens if a criminal crosses the border from KE's jurisdiction to my own jurisdiction while being chased by KE?

What happens if a criminal being chased by me crosses the border from my jurisdiction to KE's jurisdiction?

What happens if my private sec corp tried to shake down some mafia members who are hiding out in KE's jurisdiction but who committed some crime in my jurisdiction? Also vice versa with criminals who committed crimes in poorer areas of seattle/hk and then hide out from KE in my jurisdiction?

This situation gets real tacky in Seattle where Lone Star is still hanging around. So you might have three law enforcement firms screwing each other around while chasing after one criminal. Think FBI and local state police and homeland security fighting each other to break down a particular gang.

Good roleplaying opportunities if you ask me.
Dolanar
Well it sounds like your private security is more of a select few, KE & LS are out on the streets everyday looking for crimes & whatnot same as any other police system. It sounds like your company would just be hired out exclusively for specific events, not every day city security. besides, if your people are celebrities themselves, I imagine they have to continue to go out & do their own work otherwise their fame will dry up. Simplest just to say that you handle private contract stuff, not the protection of the whole city.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 8 2013, 08:00 AM) *
But the problem here is what happens if a criminal crosses the border from KE's jurisdiction to my own jurisdiction while being chased by KE?

What happens if a criminal being chased by me crosses the border from my jurisdiction to KE's jurisdiction?

What happens if my private sec corp tried to shake down some mafia members who are hiding out in KE's jurisdiction but who committed some crime in my jurisdiction? Also vice versa with criminals who committed crimes in poorer areas of seattle/hk and then hide out from KE in my jurisdiction?

This situation gets real tacky in Seattle where Lone Star is still hanging around. So you might have three law enforcement firms screwing each other around while chasing after one criminal. Think FBI and local state police and homeland security fighting each other to break down a particular gang.

Good roleplaying opportunities if you ask me.


Bodyguards are NOT Law Enforcement. smile.gif
V-Origin
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Sep 9 2013, 02:21 AM) *
Well it sounds like your private security is more of a select few, KE & LS are out on the streets everyday looking for crimes & whatnot same as any other police system. It sounds like your company would just be hired out exclusively for specific events, not every day city security. besides, if your people are celebrities themselves, I imagine they have to continue to go out & do their own work otherwise their fame will dry up. Simplest just to say that you handle private contract stuff, not the protection of the whole city.


My corp is handling the protection and law enforcements of the rich areas of the cities. Where the rich lives.

Also there are many ways of becoming celebrities without actually doing the work of being celebrities. Or they might not be celebrities 365 days in a year. Maybe 6 months doing music/acting work with the other 6 months being bodyguards. Or they might even be celebrities because of some bodyguard reality shows.

Just imagine justin biebers hiring one of my bodyguards. Then having a reality show or music videos creating works of justin bieber w my bodyguard in them or something.

Oh btw, my model/escort/bodyguard corp are handling all the security issues for Horizon. In fact, they are one of the major shareholders of Horizon. So there are plenty of artistic works featuring Horizon artists and my celebrity bodyguards.

Due to the fact that I have more celebrity bodyguards than clients themselves, if the client hire my corp's services for a year or more, he will have rotating celebrity bodyguards.

So say Justin Bieber hire my services, and I have Lady Gaga, Selena Gomez, Avril Lavigne, Kelly Clarkson working as celebrity bodyguards in my company. Justin Bieber will have each of the ladies guarding him 3 months in a year and the rest of the 9 months in a year will be spend creating MVs, acting, advertising as such.

Same goes for law enforcement work in the richest areas of the cities. Think MTV cribs but in my case it will be MTV rich suburb law enforcement. Which audience would shut off a tv reality show of Lady Gaga actually using kung-fu or her gun to take down a twerp trying to break into a corp exec's mansion?

Get the picture, omae? Don't think in such a linear fashion.
Dolanar
interesting that you have hundreds of celebrities with nothing better to do than patrol the streets of Seattle. Anyway, you'd have no choice but to contact a KE or LS representative assigned as intercompany liaison & have them dispatch a KE or LS cruiser to intercept, or ask for permission to continue your pursuit into their territory, you may have to share the collar, but if you really want it thats how it works. If they said you can't do anything, you can pursue maybe, but you can't arrest you'd have to detain them until a KE or LS unit arrived, then you could petition to have the prisoner sent to your station in Seattle.
V-Origin
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Sep 9 2013, 03:06 AM) *
interesting that you have hundreds of celebrities with nothing better to do than patrol the streets of Seattle. Anyway, you'd have no choice but to contact a KE or LS representative assigned as intercompany liaison & have them dispatch a KE or LS cruiser to intercept, or ask for permission to continue your pursuit into their territory, you may have to share the collar, but if you really want it thats how it works. If they said you can't do anything, you can pursue maybe, but you can't arrest you'd have to detain them until a KE or LS unit arrived, then you could petition to have the prisoner sent to your station in Seattle.


Hello? Didn't I say that they don't patrol or do security work all the time?

I might even have a 1000 model bodyguards with only 100 celebrity bodyguards among them. Most clients will not be assigned a celebrity bodyguard unless he pays millions and millions of nyuen for the privilege. This millions of nuyen represent profit lost while the celebrity bodyguards takes time off from her schedule creating artistic work for profit.

If the client can't pay up millions of nuyen then he only gets assigned a normal model bodyguard. Someone who has graced the covers of some mags or tv ads but who isn't a major celebrity by any means.

You know there are thousands of female celebrities out there around the world sleeping with rich men for money. I am just turning the concept on its head and adding the bodyguarding services.

I mean if a rich man is willing to pay a million dollars to sleep with a celebrity, how much more would he pay to sleep with a celebrity who can guard his life as well?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 8 2013, 10:13 AM) *
Hello? Didn't I say that they don't patrol or do security work all the time?

I might even have a 1000 model bodyguards with only 100 celebrity bodyguards among them. Most clients will not be assigned a celebrity bodyguard unless he pays millions and millions of nyuen for the privilege. This millions of nuyen represent profit lost while the celebrity bodyguards takes time off from her schedule creating artistic work for profit.

If the client can't pay up millions of nuyen then he only gets assigned a normal model bodyguard. Someone who has graced the covers of some mags or tv ads but who isn't a major celebrity by any means.

You know there are thousands of female celebrities out there around the world sleeping with rich men for money. I am just turning the concept on its head and adding the bodyguarding services.

I mean if a rich man is willing to pay a million dollars to sleep with a celebrity, how much more would he pay to sleep with a celebrity who can guard his life as well?


But you are missing the point here, I think. Bodyguard services are private contracted, so you are fin in that regard. BUT, Bodyguards ARE NOT Law Enforcement. Your idea works great, for Bodyguarding/Escorting/Modeling Services for the rich and famous, by the rich and famous. It completely falls apart when you say that they are Law Enforcement Officers.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with Private Security Contracts. But do not confuse them with Law Enforcement. A Client may hire your people as private security, but unless they are on Extraterritorial property of their own, then the City Contracted Law Enforcement has jurisdiction. And if you are on Extraterritorial property, then whomever owns that property has the right to enforce law however they choose.
Sendaz
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 8 2013, 10:00 AM) *
But the problem here is what happens if a criminal crosses the border from KE's jurisdiction to my own jurisdiction while being chased by KE?

What happens if a criminal being chased by me crosses the border from my jurisdiction to KE's jurisdiction?

What happens if my private sec corp tried to shake down some mafia members who are hiding out in KE's jurisdiction but who committed some crime in my jurisdiction? Also vice versa with criminals who committed crimes in poorer areas of seattle/hk and then hide out from KE in my jurisdiction?

This situation gets real tacky in Seattle where Lone Star is still hanging around. So you might have three law enforcement firms screwing each other around while chasing after one criminal. Think FBI and local state police and homeland security fighting each other to break down a particular gang.

Good roleplaying opportunities if you ask me.
I think part of the confusion is how you are presenting yourself.


First you say that you are going for the law enforcement contract, but only cherry picking select sections while leaving the cast offs for KE/LS to fight over, but then you go on to say you bodyguarding/personal protection.

If you were just wanting the latter you don't need the law enforcement contract, you are just private security whether it's for the person or his home. Your not enforcing LAWS, your protecting those who are paying you. However you will still be bound by those laws of the land, at least while caught on camera or tracked by evidence.

Law enforcement means just that, enforcing the laws as written down by the city/state/government, none of which seems to be what you are looking to do as you are catering to an ultrarich elite who are just needing bodyguards to look good and keep them alive if something bad does go down.

But let us suppose you have leveraged yourself into say taking the law enforcement contract for some cherry picked zones across Seattle. Your area of enforcement would end at your borders. If your forces pursue someone off that jurisdiction into KE turf, well you are out of luck as you are outside your jurisdiction and while you could contact KE/LS and request permission to pursue if you have stolen the plum spots you can expect KE/LS to be less than helpful on any requests.

And if you say fuck it and chase them down anyway, KE/LS could and probably would intervene and tell you to get your skinny elf ass back up to paradise before they drop kick it into jail for illegal pursuit. Or if you are already shooting it out with the guys who ran from you, KE/LS might just shoot you and mark it down as 'friendly fire', though that would be an extreme case, but again if you are off your turf don't expect a warm reception.

It's basically the same thing the mega run into when runner cross from extraterritorial areas into public areas and vice versa. If I am running from LS and run into the Aztech pyramid, LS would have to request permission from the Azzies to pursue or just ask them to hand me back over. Whether the Azzies do or do not is another story.

Also, why bother with the originals? If Horizon owns their contracts they probably have ownership on images and they could crank out duplicates so say you want Lady Gaga Twin bodyguards, that can be a thing.

Actual bodyguard work is not fun and fairly risky as the whole point is your supposed to actually guard that body paying for it. So would your prima donna actress actually step in front of a bullet and possibly end their own career a bit early?

The MTV Security idea is cool, but again it would be staged and rehearsed six ways to Sunday and should not be confused with actual security/law enforcement.

But you could probably milk a good few adventures out of it with it, maybe even dragging some of the player in front of the camera..
grid.samurai
I rather enjoy having the two going about their pissing match for the city contract. In my game, I keep this as a very real tension between the Star and the Knights. In fact, one of my characters was an ex-Lonestar who landed himself in prison for fireballing the competition when their contract was up for grabs. The backstory was that a rival detective on Knight Errant and he kept going head-to-head on some cases and this guy, the Knight dick, always ended up a few steps ahead of my runner. Naturally, he wasn't gracious about this and rubbed it in at every opportunity. That ended up with some blood and crispy Knights.. also with the Star detective getting put away for five years (until a prison break, which is the focus of my campaign).

In any event, my Seattle is run primarily by KE with LS still working neighborhoods and select businesses. It's actually important that I keep it like this as there a good many enemies and buddies on the force that are going to pop up in a game or two down the road that now my runner.
Shemhazai
One corp has a contract with the city or metroplex and are like local police or sheriff's department. Another corp has a contract with UCAS and are more like state troopers, FBI or federal marshals.
GloriousRuse
To answer your question before I point out any hiccups:

The Denver sourcebook/missions season is an excellent look at multiple law enforcement agencies within the same "city", ranging from completely privatized to entirely public sector.

Now, the hiccups:

1) AA implies a sprawling multinational that is shy of the corporate court. Modern day companies like McDonald's, Coke, and Sony would qualify. Its not a matter of quality, its of size and raw gross revenue. Lone Star, for instance holds nearly 2/3rds of the contracts on the North American continent (minus the azzies of course). there are entire mercenary corporations that do not cross into A, let alone double A. If you say your firm is AA, you are saying they are a significant player with clout surpassed only by the big ten.

It is important to realize that the corporate size rating does not imply inherent quality, nor vice versa. Your bodyguards might be the very best there ever was, but that in its own right does not make them AA.

2) Law Enforcement contracts are inherently public sector except for whenever you go onto sovereign corporate land. So, unless the city of Seattle is paying your bodyguards to be bodyguards as an auxiliary to the police...which per your millions of nuyen fee, they are not likely to be doing...you are not law enforcement. You are a private security contractor, and you are only allowed to use force in a situation where a normal citizen would. Your shooters will be even more careful about public display of force, because a bad rap can lead to you being de-licensed and barred form operation in the metroplex, as well as forfeiting whatever bonding requirements the city had for you to operate.

The flip side is that if you maintain good connections with the local police and the administration, you can tacitly get away with more so long as it is in the execution of your primary job.

But if you don't, go ahead, stray one time and watch how fast your rival firms arrange for you to be gutted contractually. The bigwigs will cackle as your loss is their profit, your political enemies will pay for their next series of attack ads with the money you lost in liability and the city bond, and the cops on the streets will tell stories of those overpriced SOB celebrities who didn't know a thing about REAL work. The lawyers will get rich though.

3) If you do manage to pull jurisdiction despite the overwhelming financial and legal reasons you wouldn't, expect anti-cooperation. Beyond just data blockage and obstruction. As a matter of fact, any time one your "officers" crosses over the jurisdiction, you had best hope they are not carrying a single damn thing they are not personally licensed for. And heavens forbid you break a law...like shaking down those good citizens over there (who happen to be in the Finnigan family), because its amazing how long it can take to process someone, and the legal costs for that case as it drags on and on with injunctions. Man.

4) You realize that KE is going to hire a runner to splatter Justin Biber's cranium all over the pavement, and then Selean Gomez and Lady Gaga are going to seriosuly reconsider this gig?

5) I don't know where your operators are living off work, but if its near a Humanis Policlub, issues. "Its not enough that those elves are deceitful! that orks and trolls took yer jobs! Now them elves want to run the police all by themselves too! Yaaar!!! they start with the rich because they don't care about you folk!"

6) The Brackhaven administration, a very pro-human organization, is going to want this elf-cop nonsense crushed. See 3.

7) You think the UCAS is going to be in favor of an all elf force that near the border with their Tir friends?


Dolanar
You all explained the issues better than I could, thank you, your idea could work, if they were just pretty people, & not always all elves (I don't think famous Orc's will want an Elf hanging on their arm, they might prefer a "pretty" orc to do that) also not all of them famous in their own right (pretty people do work for police departments even in our day & age).
FuelDrop
Well, in theory you could hire people with the right skillset, then biosculpt them to be pretty enough to qualify. I can see high-end gated communities hiring these guys, but I don't really see them having the experience or resources to snag an entire city's contract.
However, having 3 jurisdictions in one city isn't a bad thing at all from a player's point of view.
V-Origin
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 9 2013, 03:45 AM) *
I think part of the confusion is how you are presenting yourself.


First you say that you are going for the law enforcement contract, but only cherry picking select sections while leaving the cast offs for KE/LS to fight over, but then you go on to say you bodyguarding/personal protection.

If you were just wanting the latter you don't need the law enforcement contract, you are just private security whether it's for the person or his home. Your not enforcing LAWS, your protecting those who are paying you. However you will still be bound by those laws of the land, at least while caught on camera or tracked by evidence.

Law enforcement means just that, enforcing the laws as written down by the city/state/government, none of which seems to be what you are looking to do as you are catering to an ultrarich elite who are just needing bodyguards to look good and keep them alive if something bad does go down.

But let us suppose you have leveraged yourself into say taking the law enforcement contract for some cherry picked zones across Seattle. Your area of enforcement would end at your borders. If your forces pursue someone off that jurisdiction into KE turf, well you are out of luck as you are outside your jurisdiction and while you could contact KE/LS and request permission to pursue if you have stolen the plum spots you can expect KE/LS to be less than helpful on any requests.

And if you say fuck it and chase them down anyway, KE/LS could and probably would intervene and tell you to get your skinny elf ass back up to paradise before they drop kick it into jail for illegal pursuit. Or if you are already shooting it out with the guys who ran from you, KE/LS might just shoot you and mark it down as 'friendly fire', though that would be an extreme case, but again if you are off your turf don't expect a warm reception.

It's basically the same thing the mega run into when runner cross from extraterritorial areas into public areas and vice versa. If I am running from LS and run into the Aztech pyramid, LS would have to request permission from the Azzies to pursue or just ask them to hand me back over. Whether the Azzies do or do not is another story.


Yes, I had already thought about what you said. See my escort model bodyguard AA corp is already body guarding the families, relatives and inner circle of more than one Justices of the Zurich Orbital Habitat so they are building plenty of clout.

I was going to run things in such a manner that my corp has jurisdiction to go into KE/LS territory as those territory are the lower poorer neighborhoods but KE/LS do not have the right to chase criminals into my jurisdiction unless my corp allows it (rarely). As my corp has really powerful magical forces.. ahem.. at its disposal, this is why their effectiveness are much higher than KE/LS at taking down twerps.

So imagine local state police guarding the poorer suburbs of LA while CIA polices the richer suburbs and downtown. The local police can't chase criminals into the richer suburbs but the CIA can chase criminals into the poorer suburbs. That would make the local police/KE/LS really pissed off for sure as it places CIA/my corp above them which of course makes for great enemies and greater role-playing opportunities.

Think of it as an income gap/class difference between different police forces if you will. You have police force A with greater privileges and powers and guarding the posh areas than police force B who have lesser powers and guarding the poorer areas.

QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 9 2013, 03:45 AM) *
Also, why bother with the originals? If Horizon owns their contracts they probably have ownership on images and they could crank out duplicates so say you want Lady Gaga Twin bodyguards, that can be a thing.

Actual bodyguard work is not fun and fairly risky as the whole point is your supposed to actually guard that body paying for it. So would your prima donna actress actually step in front of a bullet and possibly end their own career a bit early?

The MTV Security idea is cool, but again it would be staged and rehearsed six ways to Sunday and should not be confused with actual security/law enforcement.

But you could probably milk a good few adventures out of it with it, maybe even dragging some of the player in front of the camera..


First of all, my prima donnas have extremely power magical .. ahem .. powers which give them greater combat capabilities than 10 of KE/LS's best put together.

Secondly, do you know how many millions of celebrities wannabes are there in the world or in Hollywood alone competing to become Lady Gaga?

See I wanna create a studio which specializes in promoting shadowrunning shows. Cos Shadowrunning is supposed to be the hip/dangerous/cool thing right and yet there are no major studios or fashion lines dedicated to Shadowrunning.

I mean if you are a celebrity, you can't do too much offensive shadow work. You can only concentrate on defensive shadow work which place you within the legal limits of any country or city. Then you create reality shows or movies or dramas based on such defensive shadow work like bodyguarding or extraction of clients from dangerous places. Industries associated with the media industries like fashion and advertising also brings you billions of nuyen.

Think of a reality show where a celebrity shadowrunner belts out top tunes while returning bullets to assassins coming after her client. LOL. Possibilities are endless.
V-Origin
QUOTE (GloriousRuse @ Sep 9 2013, 05:31 AM) *
To answer your question before I point out any hiccups:

The Denver sourcebook/missions season is an excellent look at multiple law enforcement agencies within the same "city", ranging from completely privatized to entirely public sector.

Now, the hiccups:


QUOTE
1) AA implies a sprawling multinational that is shy of the corporate court. Modern day companies like McDonald's, Coke, and Sony would qualify. Its not a matter of quality, its of size and raw gross revenue. Lone Star, for instance holds nearly 2/3rds of the contracts on the North American continent (minus the azzies of course). there are entire mercenary corporations that do not cross into A, let alone double A. If you say your firm is AA, you are saying they are a significant player with clout surpassed only by the big ten.

It is important to realize that the corporate size rating does not imply inherent quality, nor vice versa. Your bodyguards might be the very best there ever was, but that in its own right does not make them AA.


Actually my corp is AAA size but they are preferring to stay at AA status because they prefer to appear much weaker than they already are. My corp is powerful enough to take down more than one AAA corp at the same time.
QUOTE
2) Law Enforcement contracts are inherently public sector except for whenever you go onto sovereign corporate land. So, unless the city of Seattle is paying your bodyguards to be bodyguards as an auxiliary to the police...which per your millions of nuyen fee, they are not likely to be doing...you are not law enforcement. You are a private security contractor, and you are only allowed to use force in a situation where a normal citizen would. Your shooters will be even more careful about public display of force, because a bad rap can lead to you being de-licensed and barred form operation in the metroplex, as well as forfeiting whatever bonding requirements the city had for you to operate.

The flip side is that if you maintain good connections with the local police and the administration, you can tacitly get away with more so long as it is in the execution of your primary job.

But if you don't, go ahead, stray one time and watch how fast your rival firms arrange for you to be gutted contractually. The bigwigs will cackle as your loss is their profit, your political enemies will pay for their next series of attack ads with the money you lost in liability and the city bond, and the cops on the streets will tell stories of those overpriced SOB celebrities who didn't know a thing about REAL work. The lawyers will get rich though.


Actually My SOB celebrity bodyguards take down entire platoons of criminals or rival cops with ease.
QUOTE
3) If you do manage to pull jurisdiction despite the overwhelming financial and legal reasons you wouldn't, expect anti-cooperation. Beyond just data blockage and obstruction. As a matter of fact, any time one your "officers" crosses over the jurisdiction, you had best hope they are not carrying a single damn thing they are not personally licensed for. And heavens forbid you break a law...like shaking down those good citizens over there (who happen to be in the Finnigan family), because its amazing how long it can take to process someone, and the legal costs for that case as it drags on and on with injunctions. Man.


Which is why I will make sure my AAA .. i mean AA corp .. will do everything to ensure they are far more jurisdictional rights and powers than their rivals. CIA would definitely have more powers than local state police, wouldn't they?

QUOTE
4) You realize that KE is going to hire a runner to splatter Justin Biber's cranium all over the pavement, and then Selean Gomez and Lady Gaga are going to seriosuly reconsider this gig?


I think the runner had best worry about his own cranium being splatter over the pavement first. Magic resolves everything.
QUOTE
5) I don't know where your operators are living off work, but if its near a Humanis Policlub, issues. "Its not enough that those elves are deceitful! that orks and trolls took yer jobs! Now them elves want to run the police all by themselves too! Yaaar!!! they start with the rich because they don't care about you folk!"


They are gonna live where the rich folk and elves are.
QUOTE
6) The Brackhaven administration, a very pro-human organization, is going to want this elf-cop nonsense crushed. See 3.


I never said that my corp is full of elves. Sure there are plenty of elves AND changelings but hardly elf and changeling dominated.
QUOTE
7) You think the UCAS is going to be in favor of an all elf force that near the border with their Tir friends?


My corp isn't an elf corp. It is more of a magic corp than anything else.

EDIT: I should say that my corp is recognized for its magical capabilities more than its celebrities, elves, changelings, and what not.
V-Origin
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Sep 9 2013, 09:48 AM) *
Well, in theory you could hire people with the right skillset, then biosculpt them to be pretty enough to qualify. I can see high-end gated communities hiring these guys, but I don't really see them having the experience or resources to snag an entire city's contract.
However, having 3 jurisdictions in one city isn't a bad thing at all from a player's point of view.


At first i run this idea on my corp trying to snag the whole city's contract but the more I think about things the more I realize it makes sense for my celebrity cops/bodyguards to only police the juicy areas of any city while leaving the dregs to KE/LS.

I do see Lady Gaga and Selena Gomez policing Bellevue and making MTV shows about it but to ask such high-priced cops to police Redmond? Cmon, Redmond ain't gonna even have the money to pay for Lady Gaga's toilet paper. LOL.

And yes 3 jurisdictions in a city make for wonderful roleplaying opportunities.
V-Origin
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Sep 9 2013, 06:16 AM) *
You all explained the issues better than I could, thank you, your idea could work, if they were just pretty people, & not always all elves (I don't think famous Orc's will want an Elf hanging on their arm, they might prefer a "pretty" orc to do that) also not all of them famous in their own right (pretty people do work for police departments even in our day & age).


Yes you are right.. Lots of elves and lots of changelings but not all of them are elves and changelings .. also say my corp has one hundred thousand cops/guards.. only the top 1% of the corp are the high-end celebrities like lady gaga or selena gomez while the rest of the cops/guards might only occasionally grace the covers of magazine ads or tv ads..

there are hundreds of thousands of women trying to make it to the top in hollywood but only a few hundred make it to the top.. what happen to the rest of the hundreds of thousands?..

well in my corp, at least they have a job being escort bodyguards who not only sleep with their clients but guard their client's lives as well..

prostitution is a billion dollar industry also the oldest industry in the world for a reason.. second oldest i imagine might be bodyguarding.. put number one and number two together and you have a winner..

there is a niche in this market.. how many clients in the shadowrun world or our world would wanna shag their bodyguards? .. it is a bloody fantasy to be milked for all its worth..
Dolanar
its also Rule number 1 of being a bodyguard, Don't Sleep with the Client. The time you are spending in their bed, my sniper has already lined up sights to kill you both a dozen times over.

I wish you luck in your plan, I personally don't see such a plan as being viable in the world with people who have perfected the art of killing celebrities if the contract pays right. No city I can think of would spend millions on sexy cops when they can spend less & get cops that do their jobs quite well, its just not smart money.
vladski
Are you the GM or a player? 'Cause all of this sounds like a 10-13 year old's make believe Mary Sue-ish type world.

"Wouldn't it be cool if we were all super-elves that looked fantastic and ran our own super-duper AAA security company that could just nuke anyone that messed with us. And everyone loved us and wanted to give us money? Wouldn't that just be absolutely AWESOME?"

Seriously, the question you ask and the scenario that you sketch out bear almost nothing in common. And, you don't provide any back story on how you became such an uber-elite pimp. Were these gods and goddesses just sprung fully formed from Zeus' head? Are these 2000 BP characters? Have you been playing for 20 years realtime?

Vlad
V-Origin
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Sep 9 2013, 01:50 PM) *
its also Rule number 1 of being a bodyguard, Don't Sleep with the Client. The time you are spending in their bed, my sniper has already lined up sights to kill you both a dozen times over.

I wish you luck in your plan, I personally don't see such a plan as being viable in the world with people who have perfected the art of killing celebrities if the contract pays right. No city I can think of would spend millions on sexy cops when they can spend less & get cops that do their jobs quite well, its just not smart money.


That's the idea. Provided your bullet can go through my bodyguard's skin in the first place.

My corp is making its money off the snubbing of rule number 1.
V-Origin
QUOTE (vladski @ Sep 9 2013, 01:53 PM) *
Are you the GM or a player? 'Cause all of this sounds like a 10-13 year old's make believe Mary Sue-ish type world.

"Wouldn't it be cool if we were all super-elves that looked fantastic and ran our own super-duper AAA security company that could just nuke anyone that messed with us. And everyone loved us and wanted to give us money? Wouldn't that just be absolutely AWESOME?"

Seriously, the question you ask and the scenario that you sketch out bear almost nothing in common. And, you don't provide any back story on how you became such an uber-elite pimp. Were these gods and goddesses just sprung fully formed from Zeus' head? Are these 2000 BP characters? Have you been playing for 20 years realtime?

Vlad


GM and part-time player.

The back story stretches all the way back from Earthdawn and I am still working on it.
Dolanar
ex-explosive ammo tears through Elves like butter coming out of a Barret, can even drop some well buffed trolls in the right circumstances lol
FuelDrop
Anti tank rounds solve almost anything.
Flamethrowers deal with the rest.
Carpet bombing makes sure.

This is shadowrun. One lucky shot will kill anyone, no matter how powerful.
Dolanar
APDS are overkill IMO, besides, Ex Explosives in the right environment can play the role of killer & firestarter in theory.
FuelDrop
There is no overkill. There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'
Erik Baird
And don't forget... if you're leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun.
V-Origin
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Sep 9 2013, 02:31 PM) *
Anti tank rounds solve almost anything.
Flamethrowers deal with the rest.
Carpet bombing makes sure.

This is shadowrun. One lucky shot will kill anyone, no matter how powerful.


There are some things.. well a lot of things actually in the case of my corp.. which technology will always fail to resolve but which can easily be handled with magic with just a snap of the fingers. vegm.gif scatter.gif

FuelDrop
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 9 2013, 01:47 PM) *
There are some things.. well a lot of things actually in the case of my corp.. which technology will always fail to resolve but which can easily be handled with magic with just a snap of the fingers. vegm.gif scatter.gif

Counter=nuke
I think that about sum it up.
Or FAB III, of course.
Dolanar
no offense intended, but it sounds like your Corp is just oneupsmanships'r'us (not saying it is, but the way you respond to some things seems that way)
FuelDrop
In all seriousness, I have no doubt tha I can make an uunaugmented mundane with average stats and les than 10 grand of gear who can take ddown a full patrol of your guys on his own.

See, when I play augmented or magic characters I play fair. If I trot out an unaugmented mundane I am playing to win. My players will verify this.
V-Origin
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Sep 9 2013, 04:04 PM) *
Counter=nuke
I think that about sum it up.
Or FAB III, of course.


Right and now you are telling me you would nuke a whole city in order to exterminate just one client? That wouldn't work out well in Corporate Court.. especially when my corp specializes in guarding the inner circle of Corporate Court Justices not to mention the Corporate Court Justices themselves when they are running around on Planet Earth.
V-Origin
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Sep 9 2013, 04:22 PM) *
In all seriousness, I have no doubt tha I can make an uunaugmented mundane with average stats and les than 10 grand of gear who can take ddown a full patrol of your guys on his own.

See, when I play augmented or magic characters I play fair. If I trot out an unaugmented mundane I am playing to win. My players will verify this.


Explosives don't work well against spirits with regenerative powers.
FuelDrop
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 9 2013, 02:43 PM) *
Explosives don't work well against spirits with regenerative powers.

Spirits suck at csi. Anyway, I am paying top dollar for pretty cops, not spirits.

EDIT also, being on fire tends to hinder regeneration. Food for thought.
FuelDrop
In the end, the question is simple.
How would they handle Joker from the Dark Knight?
FuelDrop
Ps. Play however you want, as long as everyone is having fun then nothing else matters. Personally, I live by the philosophy that in all themultiverse there is nothing that sufficiently determined and inventive people cannot kill or destroy. No exceptions.

This is why the dragons don't overtly rule the world: they know this, and spend all day praying that we never work it out.
Voran
I was always a fan of CS gas, and then you shoot all the guys while they're choking and blind.
FuelDrop
QUOTE (Voran @ Sep 9 2013, 04:03 PM) *
I was always a fan of CS gas, and then you shoot all the guys while they're choking and blind.

yup. Pepper punch splash grenades are good if the enemy has a gas mask or (in this case) an oxigenate spell on standby.
Flamethrowers and napalm are the cheapest way to lethally overcome heavy armour and regeneration abilities (it continues to deal damage, which counters the regen)
The Ares Screech Rifle flat out ignores all armour and ITNW and can hit multiple targets in a single shot.
You can get 100 kg of AMFO for well under ten grand. put it in a junker car and tell it to drive into a building your target is in and there's good odds they'll be killed.
Many spirits have a weakness such as severe alleges to things like fire, water, pollution, insecticide... find out what your foe favors, then pack accordingly. The most powerful fire spirit in the world will go down to a vehicle-mounted riot-control water cannon. (yes there are watercannons in the rulebook. Yes, they rock. A fire hydrant will do in a pinch, however.)
Thermal smoke will leave most mages unable to fight effectively, as they can't target anything they can't see. Tech based characters can still shoot them using Ultrasound, but most mages aren't going to pay essence for that.
Causing a massive panic (EG fire an assault rifle in the air in a crowded street) = instant background count.

That's without even getting nasty.

EDIT: Block this, Yoda!
Sendaz
So looking back over the comments to and from we have gathered the following:

Your Securities Corp is a AAA-equivalent operation masquerading as a AA to stay under the radar with ties to other megas (Horizon for one) along with the CC.

Your main staff are all Adonis/Aphrodite level beauty High Level Initiate Mystic Adepts Elves with origins dating back to the ED era.

So Immortal Elves are involved in the background. That's all you had to say.

Hello MarySueSecurities.

Now do not take offense at the labelling, indeed I recommend you EMBRACE this as your corp name to throw it back in the face of all the naysayers.

I am guessing this is an organization made up of Swordmaster/Troubadours equivalents back in ED who don't just kick ass, but kick ass with STYLE.

Now in the modern age I am assuming the players will be 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of the original circles, whether they themselves are immortal is debatable and probably not- dont want it too easy, with maybe of a few of the Immortals still kicking around in the HQ. But the same standards remain and with the ability to broadcast their awesomeness it is a swordmasters and troubadours wet dream.

Over the centuries the High ups have seeded their offspring across the playing field, shaping them through their rocker/action careers gathering those that best meet their ends at long last.

This changes the picture some because you don't want the regular contract for law enforcement, that would tie you down too much.

Rather you sell this to Seattle/HK as your idea of a Reality Show, but not just with a hourly slot, no we are going BIG. You will be livestreaming dozens of channels, combing them and cherry picking out the best moments which goes on the 24/7/365 broadcast of your specialists doing what they do best. Just like in Hollywood how parts of the town basically get taken over when a film is being shot, your contract with the respective cities gives them Special Police Powers, thus allowing them to cross KE/LS lines with impunity and override them when it makes for good trideo. You may even have to Gibbs headslap a few of the KE/LS when they get uppity, but the city fathers will back you so long as your ratings are sky high.

Heck you may even work a few special passes with some of the megas in return for product placement/endorsement though do not expect to get anywhere with the Azzies as they are uptight sods with a whole cob of maize stuck up their backside.
Imagine your players realizing they are gonna need more firepower for that cyberpsychotic dragon coming after their client so they pop over to Ares where they pick up a few of the newest shinies and put them to good use, which is free advertising for latest models.

Now you have your special security/police force going out looking fabulous and macho. Screw Pink Mohawk, we are off into the realms of Infrared Sailor Suits here.

With their flying camera drones following the action, your feisty celeb guard/cops players go out on the special jobs be it from providing security for the big wigs at the Autumn Grand Ball to chasing down leads on a Tempo shipment trying to head it off and do it all with a big splash, probably involving blowing up the ship with ludicrously overwhelming firepower all to an electric guitar riff in the background.

For Chargen in case your players are not already up to speed, I would recommend a simple flat A Priority across the board so:

Elf ( 8 ), 24 Attributes, Mystic Adept (Initiation allowed), 46/10 skills and 450,000 cash to build with and an 200 Karma start off to further customize these demi-gods of Rock and Pol.

You could even have street kids call out warnings for the camera, 'Scatter man, it's the SHO PO!' You have to love the little scamps.

I can envision Lady Gaga talking over the shoulder to the cam in the back about the dangers of the job while driving with the left hand to the next job and having her personal attendant rebuffing her manicure as it was scuffed up bringing in that last drug lord vampire who had been pushing Bloody V - the latest craze being people taking hits of vamp blood laced with drugs.

You can have cameras follow them into the lockers where the ladies swap tales as they get changed. (Just backs shown for the regular viewers, premium payers can get full frontal coverage)

Again, go big or gtfo.
FuelDrop
They still bleed. That means I can kill them...
V-Origin
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 9 2013, 07:31 PM) *
So looking back over the comments to and from we have gathered the following:

Your Securities Corp is a AAA-equivalent operation masquerading as a AA to stay under the radar with ties to other megas (Horizon for one) along with the CC.

Your main staff are all Adonis/Aphrodite level beauty High Level Initiate Mystic Adepts Elves with origins dating back to the ED era.

So Immortal Elves are involved in the background. That's all you had to say.

Hello MarySueSecurities.

Now do not take offense at the labelling, indeed I recommend you EMBRACE this as your corp name to throw it back in the face of all the naysayers.

I am guessing this is an organization made up of Swordmaster/Troubadours equivalents back in ED who don't just kick ass, but kick ass with STYLE.

Now in the modern age I am assuming the players will be 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of the original circles, whether they themselves are immortal is debatable and probably not- dont want it too easy, with maybe of a few of the Immortals still kicking around in the HQ. But the same standards remain and with the ability to broadcast their awesomeness it is a swordmasters and troubadours wet dream.

Over the centuries the High ups have seeded their offspring across the playing field, shaping them through their rocker/action careers gathering those that best meet their ends at long last.

This changes the picture some because you don't want the regular contract for law enforcement, that would tie you down too much.

Rather you sell this to Seattle/HK as your idea of a Reality Show, but not just with a hourly slot, no we are going BIG. You will be livestreaming dozens of channels, combing them and cherry picking out the best moments which goes on the 24/7/365 broadcast of your specialists doing what they do best. Just like in Hollywood how parts of the town basically get taken over when a film is being shot, your contract with the respective cities gives them Special Police Powers, thus allowing them to cross KE/LS lines with impunity and override them when it makes for good trideo.

Heck you may even work a few special passes with some of the megas in return for product placement/endorsement though do not expect to get anywhere with the Azzies as they are uptight sods with a whole cob of maize stuck up their backside.

Now you have your special security/police force going out looking fabulous and macho. Screw Pink Mohawk, we are off into the realms of Infrared Sailor Suits here.

With their flying camera drones following the action, your feisty celeb guard/cops players go out on the special jobs be it from providing security for the big wigs at the Autumn Grand Ball to chasing down leads on a Tempo shipment trying to head it off and do it all with a big splash, probably involving blowing up the ship with ludicrously overwhelming firepower all to an electric guitar riff in the background.

For Chargen in case your players are not already up to speed, I would recommend a simple flat A Priority across the board so:

Elf ( 8 ), 24 Attributes, Mystic Adept (Initiation allowed), 46/10 skills and 450,000 cash to build with and an 200 Karma start off to further customize these demi-gods of Rock and Pol.

You could even have street kids call out warnings for the camera, 'Scatter man, it's the SHO PO!'

I can envision Lady Gaga talking over the shoulder to the cam in the back about the dangers of the job while driving with the left hand to the next job and having her personal attendant rebuffing her manicure as it was scuffed up bringing in that last drug lord vampire who had been pushing Bloody V - the latest craze being people taking hits of vamp blood laced with drugs.

You can have cameras follow them into the lockers where the ladies swap tales as they get changed. (Just backs shown for the regular viewers, premium payers can get full frontal coverage)

Again, go big or gtfo.


Yeah some of your elves are in the corp.

Life feed is a problem though as it gives too much intelligence away to enemies especially when you are on offensive wetwork.

Azzies are my main rivals contending with me for position of magic corp no 1.

Otherwise your visions of how things work look pretty good.
toturi
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Sep 9 2013, 05:38 PM) *
They still bleed. That means I can kill them...

They bleed because it is stylish, not because they got hurt.
FuelDrop
QUOTE (toturi @ Sep 9 2013, 05:44 PM) *
They bleed because it is stylish, not because they got hurt.

Don't tempt me to test that.
NEVER tempt me to test that.
Sendaz
Well a mix of Live feed and some taped then.

Live feed is not so bad remember as while you will have dozens of streams going to your main HQ, your editing director there will be cherry picking what goes out on the final live stream going out, switching between the various incoming feeds so you can control some of the more sensitive feeds, so he can divert the feed from Beiber closing in on the Tempo dealers so as to not give away his postion and change it over to Lady Gaga engaging Damien Knight in a bit of stripchess (adding new meaning to Check AND Mate wink.gif ) then switch back over after the dustup and have some rolling clips taken while the fight occurred to recap what happened.
Blade
You can go one step further with the city having NO public police force. It's up to each citizen or corporation to get a protection service. Some local authorities (district mayors, neighborhood organizations) can pay for a protection service for the whole area, others can just let each citizen have their own. Some corps might also offer something to their employees.
Think of it as medical care, for example.

So when you've got a problem, the local "police" officers will check if you have a contract with them first, and if you don't, they won't do a thing.
Dolanar
*Facepalm* Sendaz basically described Charlie's Angels working for the Corps.
toturi
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Sep 9 2013, 05:45 PM) *
Don't tempt me to test that.
NEVER tempt me to test that.

Why not?
FuelDrop
QUOTE (toturi @ Sep 9 2013, 05:54 PM) *
Why not?

Because then you will find that there is nothing that cannot be destroyed. There is no tactic that cannot be beaten.
I do not care who you are, how powerful you are, nor what secrets of the universe you have mastered, I will end you. I have shattered 'unbeatable' tactics with simple precautions. I have broken gods and risen from the ashes. Across various game systems I have refined the act of killing the unkillable to an art form. And I am not alone.
Throughout our long history, we have constantly struggled... and we have consistently prevailed. We have tamed the terrors of the night. We have weathered all that nature can throw at us. But beyond mere survival, we have thrived. We achieve the impossible every other week. We have overcome each and every challenge that has ever reared its head before us, and we did all this with our left hand while making rude gestures with the right one. So go on, bring your immortal elves. Bring your great dragons. Bring your initiates so high on magic they consider a mana vacuum a minor inconvenience.

We will end you. Why? 'Cos we're Dumpshock. It's what we do.
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