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Moon-Hawk
Okay, evil, EVIL idea: NPC mage designs a spell that has effects similar to a drug. i.e. Has an addiction code. NPC uses this spell to create a fanatically loyal cult. (It is my understanding that lots of RL cult leaders have used drugs in various ways to insure worship/loyalty)
Now would this be an illusion spell that causes extreme euphoria and gives a mental addiction? A health spell that causes physical addiction? A manipulation spell that tickles their brain and does both? What would the addiction code be? Tolerance? Edge? Fix factor? How do successes factor in?
Obviously this has no right answer, but I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on any or all of these questions. If you're suggesting a spell formula, please include your design process so we can follow along with what you're thinking. Thanks.
A Clockwork Lime
Note that the Addiction rules are all screwed up. No matter how benign this spell could/should be (in that its intent is to simply having a following of people needing the caster in order to feel good), using the Addiction rules all of those characters would die at an astonishing rapid rate. You'd be better off coming up with some other affect entirely.

A Mana-based Control Manipulation spell similar in style to Influence would be a better way to go. Instead of implanting any post-hypnotic suggestion you want, the spell instead just influences the target into thinking they need to the caster.
TinkerGnome
Hmm... interesting idea. I'd say it should be a health spell since both cause allergy and intoxication are health spells. What you're looking for is somewhere in the middle.
Moon-Hawk
I suppose I should say, I don't WANT this spell to be benign. For all other things, I think the addiction rules are horrible, but for this case I like them just the way they are. People get sick and die from it. That's why the idea is evil. Especially when the PC's friends and relatives get involved.
I want this to be a horrible drug-controlling cult of strung out wretches, not a relaxed and groovy pad for friendly mana-stoners.
A Clockwork Lime
Ah.

In that case I'd go with a Health spell, giving it an Addiction rating of (Force)Physical or Mental depending on which variation the spell is learned as. Fix might be equal to 10-Essence of the target. Give it a Fix of 1 +1 for every two successes on the Spellcasting Test using a target number equal to the target's Body or Willpower (dependant on which version of the spell was learned). The Edge might be equal to the Force of the spell.

It's something to work off of if nothing else.
TinkerGnome
You could just do a variant of Create Food to create drugs. Then give 'em the drugs. It'd work pretty well.
Berzerker
If you want an approach more in line with the metaplot, have the mage teaching people minor blood magic. Blood magic is already psychologically addictive. Plus that adds a darker image to the magic that should warn players away from it and makes it a more moral choice.

After all, whats the harm in spilling a little blood for a spell as long as its your own...but hey, that guy has a little extra blood we could use. It wouldnt permanently hurt him. devil.gif
Kakkaraun
Okay...well.

The addiction rules in SR are possibly the most horribly disgusting set of rules in...well, in any game (yes, that includes DnD and all variations thereof). Hell, 1930's if-you-smoke-pot-just-once-you'll-go-nuts-and-rape-and-murder-your-family propoganda is more reasonable. Buh.

But that's kind of OT, I guess, and I'm about to open a huge can of worms if'n I continue. So, just let me say that this is a very interesting idea. Go read 2XS and UB...similiar concept, chips instead of drugs.
Req
Anyone got an Addiction system more in line with, well, reality? 'cuz it comes up pretty commenly in my games. wink.gif
Kakkaraun
I've been working on it for a while, and have scrapped multiple systems. The main thing, for me, is this: by the time a character is at the point where he'll be losing attribute points as a result of addiction, he ceases to become a normal Shadowrun character, and hell, if you want to play a weirdo-bizarro game, go ahead and do it, but I'd just throw the character out. Of course, that point should be a LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT more difficult to reach than it is in the current system.
TinkerGnome
Eh? The current addiction system isn't as bad as it looks... if you want to make it slightly better, just take out the "first dose" addiction roll. It takes one or two edge dose strings for most of them to become so addictive that they'll grab most characters and then the addiction goes up so low that most characters shouldn't loose stats very quickly.

If it bugs you, up the edges on the stuff. A guy newly addicted to Nitro's going to burn out fast, but a some of the street stuff isn't too bad.

Alternatively, you could change the body loss roll to be linked to the tolerance roll. That way some drugs would burn you out really fast (Nitro) while others (Burn) took quite a while.
Kakkaraun
That's still not enough. While I understand that the drugs of the 2060's are much more powerful than those of today, the rules are STILL way overblown. It seems to me that they're based on the idea that anybody who uses so-called "hard drugs" will become addicted to them eventually. That's basically bullshit, there are plenty of casual users of "hard drugs" who don't get "hooked." But the worst part is still the stat loss. Most of the damage heavy addiction does to a person is as the result of a.) Hepitits/AIDS/et cetera or b.) not being able to buy food because you're spending all your money on dope. Even so, considering that Average in SR is 3...and it takes many, many, many years for heavy addicts to start "losing stats." Most of them who wind up dead do so because of association with the "criminal element," and since the game is Shadowrun, that's already a given.
Moonwolf
Also, large amounts of the other health problems caused by illegal drugs are from the impurities mixed in during the cutting process. Pure heroin was given to WW2 veterans in the UK because it's less addictive and less harmful than morphine.
A Clockwork Lime
I treat drugs in my games more like the Awakened Drugs in M&M, though the benefits are rarely noticable outside of the occassional Pain Resistance (which is traded off by a target modifier for anything requiring a thought due to the euphoria or other effects the drug has). When the drug wears off, different penalties kick in. The more you take it, the more you crave for it... but the worst the craving does is a cumulative target modifier for tasks requiring concentration, sorta like Matrix Addiction.

If it gets bad enough where you're in a bad shape, you're pretty much out of the picture and written off as a useless sod until you either clean up or die.
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Kakkaraun)
It seems to me that they're based on the idea that anybody who uses so-called "hard drugs" will become addicted to them eventually.

How much use are you talking about? How common is this?

I'd be inclined to allow some sort of "hard to addict" edge which would allow this kind of effects, provided they're rare.

Hard to Addict (2 points)

This character is hard to get hooked on drugs of any sort. Addiction rolls are always made against the base addiction rating of the drug.

Easy to Addict (-2 points)

This character is easy to get hooked on drugs of any sort. Addiction rolls increase by 2 instead of 1 at every edge number of doses.
Kakkaraun
That would only work if everyone in the game world automatically had the "hard to addict" edge.
TinkerGnome
I've seen more than enough people become heavily addicted to drugs or booze to believe that it should be an edge and not a default. Not to mention cigarettes.
Kakkaraun
Like I said, I'm not so much concerned with the getting-hooked part (although it happens way too fast, and way too easily...the only thing that can hook you so fast and strong is cigarettes), as I am with the stat-loss.
TinkerGnome
Well, change the Body/Willpower test to only be against the base addiction rating. Lots of drugs only have a 2-4 there.
Kakkaraun
And then I'll reduce all the ratings by one. Fun, eh?
Zazen
QUOTE (Kakkaraun)
That's basically bullshit, there are plenty of casual users of "hard drugs" who don't get "hooked."

Yeah, I know a guy who's been doing coke for five years and he still ain't hooked wink.gif
Kakkaraun
Yes, yes, funny joke, but the thing is, just because somebody does something a lot doesn't make them addicted to it. Conversely, someone can only drink once a week and be a raging alcoholic. It's a lot tougher to define than how hard or how frequently you use.
Moonstone Spider
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
I've seen more than enough people become heavily addicted to drugs or booze to believe that it should be an edge and not a default. Not to mention cigarettes.

Nicotine in Cigarrettes has been called the single most addictive substance in the world, even ahead of heroin. Alchohol is also exceptionally addictive, as is caffeine. A large percentage of social and pleasure drugs are far less so, for instance there's no documented evidence I'm aware of that Marijuana is addictive at all.

The big problem with the addiction numbers in my mind is that they make no allowance for how often you take a drug. I know addiction and frequency are not strictly linked, but under the existing rules if my character takes Kamikaze to win a battle and somehow escapes addiction, then two years later is in another gunfight and takes some more, he's more likely to get addicted now because of having taken it in the past.

And yeah, it's way too easy to get hooked instantly.
Kakkaraun
That's also a great point. Although, grass can be psychologically addictive--really--it's not physically addictive at all, though.
Moonstone Spider
That's true but anything can be psychologically addictive. My eldest Sister was quite addicted to M&Ms at one point in her life and became frantic if she didn't have a bag each morning.
Kakkaraun
Precisely! I theorize that approximately 57 percent (rectal extraction method...let's jut say "a big chunk") of America is addicted to television. Hell, if you ask me, television is a bigger threat to mind and body than a good amount of the drugs out there...half of our children just sit on their asses watching TV all day and get brainwashed by thousands of ads.
Zazen
QUOTE (Kakkaraun)
Yes, yes, funny joke, but the thing is, just because somebody does something a lot doesn't make them addicted to it. Conversely, someone can only drink once a week and be a raging alcoholic. It's a lot tougher to define than how hard or how frequently you use.

Yeah, I know people on both extremes. I was just joking, not disagreeing.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)
That's true but anything can be psychologically addictive. My eldest Sister was quite addicted to M&Ms at one point in her life and became frantic if she didn't have a bag each morning.

This is very true. Children's "blankies" are another good example of a psychological addiction.
I'd I hardly think that depriving the girl of M&Ms should warrant stat loss and death, as per the SR system. eek.gif
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