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toturi
I was thinking of creating a cyberzombie villian for my next campaign arc. But instead of the usual gang of groupies a cyberzombie inevitably seems to need to function well, I was thinking of an semi-autonomous zombie.

The story is that the zombie was an Oni-do ninjutsu clan recruit (a koborokuru who SURGEd) whose clan in alliance with Chimera through their Russian contacts acquired the secrets of cybermancy. In case, you cannot follow the linkage -

1) Oni-do ninja clan and Chimera are assassin organisations, so an alliance would not be out of the question especially since the ninja clans have better access to magical assets

2) Chimera consists of former KGB agents, so high level Russian contacts should not be beyond them. Yamatetsu is based now in Russia and according to M&M, Yamatetsu has access to cybermancy secrets

3) IMO, an assassin organisation would require their agents to be fairly independent and autonomous. The cell structure would limit intelligence fallouts.

Flimsy plot, I know, so if anyone can come up with a better background, I would appreciate it.

Anyway, I was thinking of having a high(natural) Willpowered CZ with a high(natural) Body at about -0.5 to -1 Essense with a Bioware Chemical Gland that produces the "juice" that sustains the CZ. This NPC is just in the early phases and not fully fleshed out yet. What do you guys think?
Snow_Fox
So the CZ rules the gang? Plausible but with a major IF, CZ's are notoriously difficult to maintain and they need techs to direct them and make sure htey wander off.

The whole being's raison e'tre might be to over come this. His will is holding on but he needs to find a way to make himself self contained and get away from the (he hopes) loyal flunkies who keep an eye on him. This means he might go after high tech targets or occult ones or possibly things which make no apparent sense. If he feels he is losing himslef and is thwarted on some things, he may become more irrational and violent(Think how you'd feel if you felt you humanity slipping away and there were people stopping you from protecting it.)
toturi
Actually, I was thinking that Chimera or Oni-do could sent the CZ out on missions without the usual boatload of techs.
Snow_Fox
Oh, by saying villain I thought you meant he'd be calling the shots. Other wise if he's sent out he's just a monster flunkie who could bop back for supprot when needed, and so would NOT need any special thought.
booklord
It's difficult to imagine a cyber-zombie without some sort of support network. Their maintenance needs are a little high and the psychological problems a little prohibitive. However I can offer a few ideas.

Billionaire with a fatal Disease

There are those who will do anything to cheat death for another day. *cough* Roxbourough *cough* Even the loss of willpower and cyber-zombie loss of will to live isn't enough to convince them to kick the bucket.

Possessed Cyber-zombie

A cyber-zombie possessed by a powerful spirit or magician could also prove a dangerous and unpredictable foe. In this case the cyber-zombie becomes a meat body ( so to speak ) for the astral entity. Since the astral entity isn't affected by the cyber-zombie's mental defects this could cause the players to vastly underestimate the zombie. ( Especially should the cyber-zombie start exhibiting spirit powers ) Imagine the nastiness of a cyber-zombie possessed by a free great form fire elemental.
Mimick
QUOTE
Possessed Cyber-zombie

A cyber-zombie possessed by a powerful spirit or magician could also prove a dangerous and unpredictable foe. In this case the cyber-zombie becomes a meat body ( so to speak ) for the astral entity. Since the astral entity isn't affected by the cyber-zombie's mental defects this could cause the players to vastly underestimate the zombie. ( Especially should the cyber-zombie start exhibiting spirit powers ) Imagine the nastiness of a cyber-zombie possessed by a free great form fire elemental.


Man, I'd have to really hate my players to sic Burnout on 'em.
Method
One suggestion: Buttercup has forbidden Yamatetsu from practicing cybermancy.

You'll have to come up with some evil subplot about how this abomination was built by Yamatesu croonies without the corp's orders (or maybe very quietly with the corp's orders....) devil.gif Muahahahahah!!!
Phaeton
QUOTE (Method)
One suggestion: Buttercup has forbidden Yamatetsu from practicing cybermancy.

You'll have to come up with some evil subplot about how this abomination was built by Yamatesu croonies without the corp's orders (or maybe very quietly with the corp's orders....) devil.gif Muahahahahah!!!

See?! My paranoia paid off!! It's not Aztech that's up to anything---It's YAMATETSU! rotfl.gif
A Clockwork Lime
I don't know if using a Chemical Gland is really in the spirit of the rules, though. Chemical Glands can only produce natural chemicals, and I'm pretty sure the cyberzombie cocktail (beyond obviously being more than one chemical) wouldn't qualify.

You'd be better off just going with one really large reservoir for the auto-injector (you can buy multiple "doses" when purchasing one, thus allowing it to work independantly for quite a while), and honestly, cyberzombies can't work independantly for long periods anyway even without their drugs.

Either some kind of completely new breed of cyberzombie should be developed for this kind of concept, maybe even one that's even more engrained in magic than technology. Perhaps it was part of some kind of Wuxing experiment in foci addiction that lead to the development of it; instead of implants, it functions on quickened tattoos and sustaining foci (both of which even non-magicians can take advantage of). Since such a character wouldn't have to be a magician, you could even give them quite a bit of deltagrade implantation on top of all of it, just not to the point where it hits the 0 Essence mark.

I dunno. Just an idea.
toturi
QUOTE (Method @ May 2 2004, 07:37 AM)
One suggestion:  Buttercup has forbidden Yamatetsu from practicing cybermancy. 

You'll have to come up with some evil subplot about how this abomination was built by Yamatesu croonies without the corp's orders (or maybe very quietly with the corp's orders....)  devil.gif  Muahahahahah!!!

No, I was thinking that Chimera through their Russian links managed to infiltrate Yamatetsu for the cybermancy knowledge(I'm thinking hermetic-type cybermancy, so it can be put on a chip) but was unable to utilise the knowledge due to the fact that they lack powerful magical assets, hence the alliance with ninjas.

QUOTE
You'd be better off just going with one really large reservoir for the auto-injector (you can buy multiple "doses" when purchasing one, thus allowing it to work independantly for quite a while), and honestly, cyberzombies can't work independantly for long periods anyway even without their drugs.


I just wanted it to fit the concept of an independent CZ without the usual logistical tail.
shadd4d
If they can just get the secrets of cybermancy that easily, then lots are going to get it. The workings attendant to cybermancy would then start becoming more widespread. Remember, Ares and the UCAS are working on a joint project to research it; I'd imagine that they could sidestep the entire process at a fraction of the price by buying it from Chimera, assuming you do this in your game.

How exactly did Yametesu get the cybermancy secrets? I thought only SK, possibly Novatech or Shawaise, Aztech, and Tir Na Nog had clinics and the requisite magical juice. Not even all the corps have cybermancy (which I don't quite understand. Fuchi and SK paid someone to get it; how hard is it to imitate them? It worked.), which means if Chimera could actually get the secrets, so could others.

In theory, someone can simply buy the drugs or the chemicals, assuming they have the money. I think the text, or at least Cybertechnology did, states that the drugs are a combination of nutrients as well as the various medical drugs needed to keep the body going. The chemicals, in theory, would require a lot of chemical glands, which might be a tad restrictive given the small amount of body index a cyberzombie can actually use.

Don
Nath
QUOTE ("toturi")
I'm thinking hermetic-type cybermancy, so it can be put on a chip

Cybermancy is only known to hermetic organization, though they seemingly need a Spirit of Man (summoned by a shaman) at some point.

QUOTE ("shadd4d")
Not even all the corps have cybermancy (which I don't quite understand. Fuchi and SK paid someone to get it; how hard is it to imitate them? It worked.)

It isn't hard to imitate them, but corps ain't in the biz to do hard things, they're in to make money. It's well possible that the heads of many corps just find that Cybermancy is a waste of time and resources. For the price of a CZ, implants, equipment, medical and magical experts, who may last only a few months due to a cancer and other problems, you can probably equip a handful of beta or delta-cybered operatives (the Chimerea and the Ninjas should ask themselves the same question BTW). Seemingly, CZ are just the most useful way they found to recycle the guinea pigs used in the more fundamental study of life and death (see Ancient History's Magic & Death).
toturi
I would like to point out that while it is true that not all the megas have access to cybermancy, a few AA already have cybermantic knowledge. So it would not be too much a stretch to suggest a powerful assassin organisation such as Chimera could get their mitts on cybermancy especially if they have an in with the Russkies/Yamatetsu.

If a CZ could operate independently without the need for so much logistics, a large part of the drawbacks of being a CZ is already negated. Without the massive support costs, I expect Chimera to see the CZ as an investment that will pay itself off.
shadd4d
There's the problem. 1) The cyberzombies need the drugs. There's no way to circumvent this need, which requires a lot of money. 2) Although they are very powerful, they have some vulnerabilities, such as the astral thing or just dropping something shiny in front of them = they need some sort of support against astral and other threats that they might need help against, 3) they might not be more vulnerable to damage, but they're a heck of a lot more vulnerable to dying.

In theory, 1 can be handled by Chimera. Ignoring 2 or 3 just means losing an investment, but taking care of 2 and 3 requires a massive outlay of funds (so does number 1, for that matter). Plausibly side-stepping that is what you've got to do.

2 can be sidestepped by having a mage or shaman bind elementals and other spells to help mr/ms. CZ.

3 can basically be sidestepped by using expendable focus achored healing potions, which might help.

There's still the additional problem of having to deal with the ware getting shot up.

Don
toturi
The CZ candidate already has Dual Nature and Karma Hazing due to SURGE as well as a high natural Willpower(9, 12@RMax) and Body(8, 12@RMax).

Astral threats will be handled through Background count and SURGE:Astral Sight(pre-zombie). The Astral Sight allows the candidate to bind weapon foci, so the CZ is going to be quite lethal in astral space also.

A cyberzombie is already very difficult to damage in the first place, and if you followed threads on CZs both here and in the old forums, you will know a lot of tricks to keep the CZ alive. Anyway if a CZ gets damaged badly, it is time to replace parts anyway(cyberware stress is surely going to be an issue).
Entropy Kid
I think the idea can work to a degree. I don't see a cyberzombie as being some kind of lone gunman wandering the world, but as part of a well supported team I think it could work.

I agree with those that've said the chemical gland bioware won't work alone, although perhaps a chemical gland and a nanite hive could extend the normal period a cyberzombie could be in the field and reduce overall cost of the "cocktail of special drugs and nutrients." Also, depending how you interpret the auto-injector rules for cyberzombies, they can already go 50 days between refills (unless I missed something defining how much one "dose" is or how long one lasts).

Would ninja follow the Yamato ideal? I understand that they probably wouldn't be as bound to tradition as some other groups, but I figured they'd be Japanese first, and ninja second; although I'm not basing this off of anything in particular.

I agree with shadd4d's statements about cyberzombies needed some magical support, but I don't think the cyberzombie will need a babysitter. Depending on the job, a CZ will have the same problems any dual-natured being would have. A mage can help deal with some of those problems. It would make sense for the CZ to have aura reading as a skill to identify astral obstacles and threats. For solo missions, some anchoring foci with Shattershield and Slay: Spirit could be used in emergency situations.

The "vulnerability to dying" is only an issue after taking a Deadly wound, and any assassin in that situation is screwed anyway. Getting "Lost in the Details" won't be too much of a problem with high Intelligence and Willpower, and with the right equipment the TN# should stay manegable.

QUOTE
There's still the additional problem of having to deal with the ware getting shot up.
So does every street samurai and rigger.

IMO, because CZ's are such a pain to create and maintain, it'd be unlikely that any non-megacorps organization had more than one, so the more flexibly this CZ can be deployed, the better.

QUOTE
The CZ candidate already has Dual Nature and Karma Hazing due to SURGE
Karma Hazing would make it more difficult to do the cybermantic ritual; since it takes hours and would allow time for background count to build up. I don't think it makes sense for the organization to attempt such a difficult ritual if they have to deal with yet another problem when they can just find another subject.
shadd4d
That does change things, assuming the CZ is the walking equivalent of a mana warp. OTOH, only if the background count goes higher than 5 is this going to be a problem; it won't protect him from a high powered spell tossed at distance.

I can see the chemical glands maybe producing the cocktail, with the restriction that it's 1 gland per chemical = lots of glands to get the perfect mixture. Also factor in that the CZ cannot produce the nutrient mixture (he's not a plant).

I'd also go with look at Yamatesu trying to track down the people who caused the leak; if it happened, then you have a massive background count overlaying another hint of a prior background count. That's going to leave some sort of mark, even allowing for cleansening. I'd also agree with Entropy kid that the prior background count generated by the subject won't make it easier. A different subject, maybe?

QUOTE
I don't see a cyberzombie as being some kind of lone gunman wandering the world, but as part of a well supported team I think it could work.


I agree with you on that one, because cybermancy seems to require organizations to pull it off, plus some support in order to maintain the state of the subject, sort of akin to having to make sure you keept a fire burning. As a group, it gets started, but then it has to be maintained, according to various degrees. Like a fire, a CZ is not self-sustaining, but that's also about as far as I can go with that metaphor.

Don
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